War, war, war!
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Tuesday, June 8 2004 21:48
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Most corpses don't end up undead, just dead. Spirits seem to appear only when people die very angry, very upset, or otherwise emotionally engaged. Vampires and liches are never really explained, but going by common explanations they probably come from contagious biting (though perhaps vampirism is only shared when the biter wants to) and from mages who just don't want to die, respectively. Random shambling undead are almost exclusively mindless shambling bodies raised by one of the previous categories of undead or a mage with too much spare time. That was rather tangential, but my point was that the undead won't win. There are actually relatively few undead capable of perpetuating the "species," although if they could get to a battlefield right after everyone dies they could make recruiters weep with envy. —Alorael, who also thinks that goblins deserve some consideration. They are much like roaches and ants: no matter what happens and how many die as a result, there will always be goblins left in the rubble. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 3349
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written Wednesday, June 9 2004 08:20
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I though the undead were mindlessly created by mages for guards but they couldn't control them. What was the real story for the undead? -------------------- And everybody say....Yatta! Posts: 1287 | Registered: Thursday, August 14 2003 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 2189
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written Wednesday, June 9 2004 12:10
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Isn't Anama part of the Empire? Posts: 187 | Registered: Sunday, November 3 2002 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 3310
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written Wednesday, June 9 2004 19:28
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Pfft. I'd say the chances are quite big for soldiers dying "very angry, very upset, or otherwise emotionally engaged". Ever heard of haunted battlefields? They're the frickin' playgrounds for all sorts of transparent lifeforms! Ha. I win. EDIT: Touche! 1-0 to me! In your face! Booyah! Go me! Go me! [ Wednesday, June 09, 2004 19:34: Message edited by: Saltweed ] -------------------- Mow down the sexy people. Posts: 756 | Registered: Monday, August 4 2003 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 517
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written Thursday, June 10 2004 03:39
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Calm down, Weedy, calm down. -E- -------------------- Let them eat cake! Posts: 2314 | Registered: Tuesday, January 15 2002 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 4360
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written Thursday, June 10 2004 04:22
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I don't think I would be on the side of the strongest at all. In "real world" ethics, it's usually not the strongest that I think are right and behave as they should, if anyone. In game-related terms only, it'll be much more fun to defeat the strongest and make someone weaker win. Posts: 19 | Registered: Friday, May 7 2004 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 3349
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written Thursday, June 10 2004 04:30
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So are you saying you'd rather be on the bandit's side than the demon's? :confused: Congrats for me. It's my 250th post. :cool: -------------------- And everybody say....Yatta! Posts: 1287 | Registered: Thursday, August 14 2003 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 4360
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written Thursday, June 10 2004 06:05
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Well, yes. I suppose I'd be on anyone's side rather than the demons'. Though the bandits are bad guys too, aren't they? Wouldn't it be a good thing to unite all humans, sliths, nephilim, spiders, dragons and all other intelligent species against demons and undead? By the way, how do you tell if a hostile creature is intelligent? OK, the spiders are definitely not very intelligent, though they can talk, as we know because there are friendly ones. The sliths and nephilims definitely build towns. But what about lizards and drakes? They sometimes seem to have money. Posts: 19 | Registered: Friday, May 7 2004 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 2954
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written Thursday, June 10 2004 11:12
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Yeah... for everyone of us they kill, that person/thing will come back as an undead and aid them in the endless war. after a few major wars, the undead will obviously win. Their numbers have been too great. Look at me! I'm back from the dark place from which I've dwelt. :D -------------------- My party is but a singleton. He has no friends. Banished from the Empire on that basis. His only friends he has are souls of: - Ur-basilisk - Vahnahtai Blademaster - Vahnahtai Lord (Mage) - Empire Dervish Posts: 77 | Registered: Tuesday, May 6 2003 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 618
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written Thursday, June 10 2004 23:23
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I would join the undead, but I am allergic to dieing. Posts: 1487 | Registered: Sunday, February 10 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Friday, June 11 2004 18:00
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If soldiers in battle feel the kinds or levels of emotions that lead to shambling zombies or wailing spirits, there would be more undead hanging around Ermarian's battlefields than there are. In fact, there would be no need for the military to dig graves. Normal dedication to a cause doesn't cut it. Soldierly esprit de corps, patriotism, and the rest don't either. Anger over being betrayed (or becoming lunch to a bunch of really ugly demons) is more likely. But really, only a fraction of a percent of people don't stay dead. —Alorael, who also suspects that steps would be taken by opposing armies to prevent the undead ranks from swelling constantly. Surely priests could come up with a good way to keep their dead dead. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 2954
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written Friday, June 11 2004 18:16
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Yeah, I guess you got a point there... never thought about it that way. Something that was on my mind: Just imagine a Haakai crossbreeding with a Mug Demon... the possibilities for such a creature would be endless... the would first steal your MP and then blast you into ashes. -------------------- My party is but a singleton. He has no friends. Banished from the Empire on that basis. His only friends he has are souls of: - Ur-basilisk - Vahnahtai Blademaster - Vahnahtai Lord (Mage) - Empire Dervish Posts: 77 | Registered: Tuesday, May 6 2003 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 1436
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written Sunday, June 13 2004 08:18
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Oh, come on people... We all know the Dragons would win, as soon as Athron's (?) sprogs were fully grown. If they produced enough in number, they could decimate anyone or anything in their path. AND they're superintelligent. Would anybody like a Khoth with that burger? -------------------- -Dustin Territorial Leech and Kamikaze of Self Values Posts: 26 | Registered: Thursday, July 4 2002 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 4263
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written Tuesday, June 15 2004 07:20
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no thx ALIEN BEASTS would obviously win....I mean they're more than a load of angry,mutated wolf..They're smarter than you think... so there -------------------- Custer is the worlds biggest noob Custer is the worlds biggest noob Custer is the worlds biggest noob Posts: 54 | Registered: Thursday, April 15 2004 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 3349
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written Tuesday, June 15 2004 16:28
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Come to think of it wouldn't the demons kill the dragons? Aren't they much more powerful? :confused: -------------------- And everybody say....Yatta! Posts: 1287 | Registered: Thursday, August 14 2003 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 4534
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written Wednesday, June 16 2004 06:11
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Vahnatai would win. No ifs, ands, or buts. They are the superior fighters and mages and priests in the world. Second in line I think would be the sliths, then the nephilim. To be honest, humans stink. Vahnatai have the supreme intelligence and spellcasting ability, sliths have the brute force and biggest weapons, and nephilim are the fastest and most skilled with ranged weapons. They could take down a company of humans before the humans knew they were there. In response to dragons winning, that would be possible, if there were more. There's only 5 to begin with, 6 if you count Pythras, and be Exile 3 we only have 3. Also it took Athron MANY years before she is as powerful as she is...by the time all of her brood would be full grown dragons, the other races would probably be extinct (because they killed each other) and of course, who would be surprised to find that some of her brood are killed before reaching maturity? (i.e.- Exile 1, Athron's Lair-slaughtered all her precious drake babies) In response to Straw Man's post about vampires and liches: vampirism is spread through biting, but liches were once powerful human necromancers who, at a certain level of power, underwent a complicated and vile ritual to turn tem into undead so they can live forever, having an eternity to hone their magical skills. [ Wednesday, June 16, 2004 06:20: Message edited by: Cryomancer ] -------------------- "Though I have shown you the path, you must be the one to walk it. I cannot walk it for you." -Cosmar Posts: 11 | Registered: Sunday, June 13 2004 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Wednesday, June 16 2004 14:20
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As I said, that's the common explanation. There's no reason that it has to be the same in the world of Exile. From Diplomacy with the Dead (not techincally Exile, but Avernum is the same world) we know that not all vampire bites cause vampirism. And until I see a necromancer turn into a lich, I'll reserve judgement. Maybe they're just zombies with less decayed brains who had centuries to work on learning magic post mortem. Humans have a huge numerical advantage over the nephilim, who were all but wiped out by purges on the surface. They also do not have any powerful mages or priests to match against those of the other races, and their warriors tend to be less powerful. They have no central organization. In short, they would be easy pickings for any other belligerent race. The full numbers of sliths are not known, as most of them live in their kingdom beneath Exile (again, extrapolating from Avernum); in fact, the only ones seen by humans were cast out as barbaric heathens. Unless the civilized sliths are just as warlike and more organized than the known sliths, and unless they discovered the fine art of making armor and bows (javelins really aren't great ranged weapons), they would probably fall to hordes of human archers behind heavily armored soldiers. Vahnatai numbers aren't known, but there probably aren't as many vahnati as humans. They have the most skilled fighters and mages, the most powerful weapons and spells, and the ability to manufacture more troops on demand (slimes, roaches, troglodytes, giants, alien beasts, and especially golems). They function as clans with no unifying authority, but if the Crystal Souls could agree to kill other races, the vahnatai would quickly fall into line. The only thing they don't have is armor, but you don't need it when you can order walking statues to kill things for you. —Alorael, whose money is on the vahnatai as well. Heck, they created the other sapient species. They probably created horses as well! Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Wednesday, June 16 2004 14:53
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I believe in one of the series Exiles, somewhere in Interchangeable Undead Crypt #36, you can talk to a spirit who saw someone change into a lich via a ritual. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 3349
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written Friday, June 18 2004 08:17
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But then who created the Dragons? Were they just popped into existance by no means at all? -------------------- And everybody say....Yatta! Posts: 1287 | Registered: Thursday, August 14 2003 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 4534
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written Friday, June 18 2004 18:00
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I thought I heard somewhere that Dragons were one of the first races on Ermarian, along with the Vahnatai, but I also have heard that the Vahnatai created all races...but that just doesn't seem possible, I mean a dragon could take out quite a few vahnatai before it went down, so why would the vahnatai create something that's more powerful than they are? -------------------- "Though I have shown you the path, you must be the one to walk it. I cannot walk it for you." -Cosmar Posts: 11 | Registered: Sunday, June 13 2004 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Friday, June 18 2004 18:42
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The dragons were Ermarian's first intelligent race, although gazers, eyebeasts, maybe gremlins, and other oddball species could have evolved on their own (though gremlins are humanoid, suggesting vahnatai origin). The vahnatai arrived from another world. No, they didn't deliberately create competitors. They just had to deal with the ones already firmly entrenched. —Alorael, who sees enough minor similarities between dragons and sliths for there to be some connection. Perhaps the vahnatai and dragons collaborated on that race, or perhaps the vahnatai gave them to the dragons as a gift. There's even less in the games to back that up than there is for the vahnatai creationism theory, though, so he'll leave the sub-theory alone. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 27
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written Friday, June 18 2004 21:14
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If the bandits banded together they would win. First all supply routes would be cut off, due to the danger of traveling roads. Then the bandits would slowly pillage each town and demoralize the opposing forces. Then, with sufficient towns and reinforcements, they would kill off all the dragons and such with superior numbers. They can also steal the horses. Edit: Come to think of it, haven't bandits always won? Think of Rome, arguably the most poweful empire to ever exist. Bandits/Raiders were one of the biggest contributions to its decline. [ Friday, June 18, 2004 21:18: Message edited by: Styx Obsessed Slith ] Posts: 1233 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 3349
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written Saturday, June 19 2004 17:25
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naw, the bandits would get smushed by the demons. -------------------- And everybody say....Yatta! Posts: 1287 | Registered: Thursday, August 14 2003 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 1468
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written Thursday, June 24 2004 07:54
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The humans would win. Think about it. What resource the the humans use that none of the other races use... Horses. One human would be riding along on his horse, and a Nephil would shoot a bow at him, a slith would try to spear him, etc, etc, an they would miss and hit the horse. The horse, being indestructible, would not be injured, and the human would escape. He would then tell all the armorers to start making horse-hide armor and equip all the soldiers with it, and voila! Indestructible human soldiers. They could even make horse-hide robes for the mages! [ Thursday, June 24, 2004 07:55: Message edited by: Eldibs ] -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 | Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 1217
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written Thursday, June 24 2004 10:29
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What about the GIFTS?!?!?!? -------------------- ALBATROSS!!! -John Cleese !!!Long live Monty Python!!! Not a Chance! Long Live The Weather Balloons! Posts: 304 | Registered: Monday, May 27 2002 07:00 |