Join the Club?

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AuthorTopic: Join the Club?
Shock Trooper
Member # 7143
Profile #0
I think that I'll start a club, the "I was waiting since G1 to use the geneforge again, but was found the use of the geneforge in G4 somewhat anticlimactic." I liked G4, but that geneforge was weak.

[ Wednesday, January 17, 2007 19:08: Message edited by: Retlaw May ]

Poll Information
This poll contains 1 question(s). 23 user(s) have voted.
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"After I'm dead I'd rather have people ask why I have no monument than why I have one."
- Cato the Elder (234-149 BC)

"The mind, if it exists, is nothing but an unfortunate after effect of the brain process."
-Kripke

"One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly."
-Friedich Nietzche
Posts: 333 | Registered: Saturday, May 20 2006 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #1
I, like Groucho Marx, don't believe in joining any club that will have me. After all if their standards are that low, who else will they let join.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 7143
Profile #2
Just because you would want to join doesn't mean I'd let you in. :P

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"After I'm dead I'd rather have people ask why I have no monument than why I have one."
- Cato the Elder (234-149 BC)

"The mind, if it exists, is nothing but an unfortunate after effect of the brain process."
-Kripke

"One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly."
-Friedich Nietzche
Posts: 333 | Registered: Saturday, May 20 2006 07:00
Guardian
Member # 5360
Profile #3
Aye.

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May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it.
Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #4
I would like to join that club. Even though I don't think it made the game any less awesome than it was, it sort of ruined my whole obsession with it as a source of unlimited power. I used to say canisters were only bad because the geneforge made them obsolete, but now I have no reason to stop using them, ever.

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You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #5
I really wanted Jeff to insert some explanation about this. He does have someone mention that the Geneforge you used was probably not much like the original. But I wanted an explanation that said that the new generation of Geneforges had been designed to minimize the insanity risk by acting slowly, and in combination with the subject's own actions. Thus, keep casting spells, and over a few months the Geneforge's effects will gradually make you an awesome spellcaster; etc.

This would then finally give an explanation for why, unlike all the NPCs, the player grows quickly to godlike power by simply hacking around and fighting stuff: gaining experience levels is really the gradual, delayed effect of the Geneforge.

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 5754
Profile #6
No. It helped the plot.

SoT - The Shapers on Sucia Island had the best lab equipment of that time, peace and a lot of time. The Rebels had bad lab equipment and revolution to deal with. Do you really think that the product would be as powerful?

[ Wednesday, January 24, 2007 12:37: Message edited by: Kyrek ]
Posts: 626 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Canned
Member # 7704
Profile #7
Yes when it's hidden and closed off of corse.

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You can jump off a bridge, fire a gun in your mouth, drink poison,or going in to the tiger's pit but you will still end up dead it's a mater of time and how .
Posts: 312 | Registered: Sunday, November 26 2006 08:00
Councilor
Member # 6600
Profile Homepage #8
Originally by Kyrek:

quote:
SoT - The Shapers on Sucia Island had the best lab equipment of that time, peace and a lot of time. The Rebels had bad lab equipment and revolution to deal with. Do you really think that the product would be as powerful?
They probably could make one as powerful, now that they have a pattern to build off of. They built powerful ones in G2 and G3, didn't they?

Dikiyoba.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 5754
Profile #9
You have to work hard to keep something like a being created Geneforge hidden. Also, most of the mages would be making canisters, not the Geneforge, to supply the rebel humans.

Another thing, there were many skilled and experienced Shapers making the origanal, while for these ones there are only newly created Lifecrafters.

Drakons built the powerful ones, and they are very powerful. They didn't bother making the human ones because they feel the humans are not worth their time.

[ Wednesday, January 24, 2007 15:19: Message edited by: Kyrek ]
Posts: 626 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #10
The Southforge Citadel Geneforge was made by the drakons to create cannonfodder for the Rebellion. It appears to be deliberately weak so those serviles and humans that use it won't be a real challenge to the drakons. Also considering the side effects even without using a canister, it wasn't well made.

I think this is a drakon plot to sow chaos by creating a large number of unstable people and then release them into the world. Meanwhile the drakons stay back in safety making their army to attack when the shapers are weakened.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #11
Question: do we know whether the Northforge Citidel geneforge is for humans or drakons?

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You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #12
It's made for humans and serviles, which is why the drakons have been neglecting it ever since they started work on the Unbound.

[ Wednesday, January 24, 2007 21:36: Message edited by: Cryptozoology ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #13
Granted, the rebels' current Geneforge-creation capabilities seem rather below those of Sucia Island in its heyday. Since Tuldaric is mysteriously MIA, the closest thing to a Danette that the humans or serviles seem to have left is Litalia. The tasks she feels up to seem to be things like reverse engineering Wingbolts: sophisticated shaping challenges, but hardly in Danette's league. And it's clear that the Southforge rebels are under a lot of pressure from the Shapers, enough to hamper Geneforge creation efforts.

But the Southforge Geneforge was built in happier days for the rebels, before the Shapers closed in. It's pretty clear that Southforge Citadel used to be a very secure base, far from the front lines, and that its Geneforge was built back then. And the whole point of the Geneforge story, the bell that can't be unrung, is that it doesn't take a Danette to make the second Geneforge. Once the basic ideas are out, and once it's known that the thing is truly possible, people of much less genius can follow her path.

It does seem possible to me that the human side of the Rebellion acquired its knowledge of Danette's achievements through the drakons. Ghaldring does seem to have been the only gifted rebel survivor of the canonical ending to G2. And I'm sure the drakons are not above deliberately weakening the human/servile 'forge. So, yeah, I'd accept this scenario as a possible explanation for Geneforge Junior.

I still find this a doubtful scenario, though, just because everyone you meet in the game, Rebel and Shaper, human and drakon, all speak about the rebel Geneforges as though they confer really significant powers. And it is evident that the Rebels have been producing Geneforged Lifecrafters for some time: the PC is not the first Lifecrafter, but the last. So even those Rebels and Shapers who have no direct knowledge of how the southern rebel 'forge worked would seem to have had direct experience of its products.

None of the characters who are thus impressed with rebel Geneforging is likely to be awed by firebolts and fyoras. So to me the only plausible resolution is that the Southforge Geneforge actually does have immense effects. They just take time to develop. The ability of the PC to gain levels so rapidly, through adventuring, is the Geneforge at work. People who have not been Geneforged cannot multiply their health, energy and essence by killing rogues and disarming mines. And that is why it never occurs to Alwan, for instance, that he and his handful of lieutenants could easily whup the drakons, if they just farmed the Barrier Zone for some experience first. They couldn't. You can, thanks to the wonders of modern geneforging technology.

(You have to overlook the fact that Alwan gained quite a few levels by adventuring in G3. Well, he never gained enough levels then to stop being a total wimp.)

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #14
You also, of course, have to overlook the protagonists of G1 through G3, who gained phenomenal powers at just as speedy a pace without geneforgery.

And you also have to overlook Khur and Shotwell, who apparently haven't used the Geneforge, yet gain levels alongside you much like Alwan in G3. (Admittedly, also like Alwan in G3, they don't really stop sucking however many levels they gain.)

[ Thursday, January 25, 2007 00:57: Message edited by: Cryptozoology ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 4239
Profile #15
quote:
Originally written by Student of Trinity:

I still find this a doubtful scenario, though, just because everyone you meet in the game, Rebel and Shaper, human and drakon, all speak about the rebel Geneforges as though they confer really significant powers. And it is evident that the Rebels have been producing Geneforged Lifecrafters for some time: the PC is not the first Lifecrafter, but the last. So even those Rebels and Shapers who have no direct knowledge of how the southern rebel 'forge worked would seem to have had direct experience of its products.
Hmmm. I always just figured the Southern Geneforge was considered so powerful because it could give serviles the power to craft and cast magic, and it could let humans do the same thing without the years of study otherwise required (remember, your characters in the past games are all old apprentices who have been learning magic and memorizing different formulas for years).

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There are two kinds of game players...those who are newbies, and those who were.
Posts: 322 | Registered: Monday, April 12 2004 07:00
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #16
This is another situation where premises were designed for G1 and made perfect sense, but were not updated accordingly with the new settings. The rapid experience gain made sense in G1. It was accounted for by the fact that you were using canisters (a pretty fair assumption in G1). Other people couldn't do it as well because they weren't Shapers, but the ones who used canisters *were* significantly more powerful.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #17
Even in G1, it was never explained that the level gain was a delayed effect of canister use. You could tell yourself that, but the game didn't tell you.

I gave up hoping for a levelling explanation in G2 and G3, since there the "no canister, no modification" game is a very reasonable one, and since the games are full of heavily modified NPCs, all supposedly struggling fiercely, but all actually sitting pat while the PC overtakes them in power by killing rogues. That leaves "you're a historic prodigy" as the only possible explanation for the PC's meteoric ascent, but then this doesn't jibe with the fact that NPCs who really ought to recognize a historic prodigy still treat you as an apprentice twerp.

But in G4 there was such a neat possibility to take the conventional RPG conceit of levelling into the game itself, and I'm disappointed Jeff passed it up. I tried to sell him on it during beta testing, since it would only have needed one added line of dialogue. He didn't bite. It's a shame that in games that do so much of other interesting stuff with the theme of gaining power, the greatest source of power is left as an unexamined (and rather ludicrous) genre convention.

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Canned
Member # 7704
Profile #18
So what would that club have?
Discussions? Stories? What? So as rules?
You can all talk about it but you can't make it :
Tell us how are going to organize your club.

[ Friday, January 26, 2007 09:05: Message edited by: upon mars ]

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You can jump off a bridge, fire a gun in your mouth, drink poison,or going in to the tiger's pit but you will still end up dead it's a mater of time and how .
Posts: 312 | Registered: Sunday, November 26 2006 08:00
Councilor
Member # 6600
Profile Homepage #19
It's more of a figurative club than a literal one, upon mars. And it doesn't involve anything more than being unsatisfied by the G4 geneforge and occasionally complaining about it.

Dikiyoba.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Warrior
Member # 1668
Profile #20
Just for the record, if upon mars were to join, this (or any?) club would be significantly less appealing...

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"Mongo only pawn in game of life" -- Mongo
Posts: 75 | Registered: Monday, August 5 2002 07:00
Canned
Member # 7704
Profile #21
In that case you all seem altruistic to me .

WE all see reality in a different way because people come up with after 1 minute hundreds of other realties of one single event.

Excluding me and saying i am a weirdo is not going to change the fact that we are all different and alien to one an other is it ?

The world is cruel and make us mad we are all mad.

Ladies and Gents we are Alice in wonder land chasing the white rabbit of hope that makes us still going running all over the place.
We sing the same song why is the world so awful? why is paradise here? why is Diki and Niki like ice cream and why am i like that ? We have bits of the puzzul but we can figure that out. Believe me i don't know and i am shure you haven't a clue.

From the fact i can't totally think like you, i have deduct this.
I am as human as you lot, i am lost like you and i am only writting here to make me forget the awfullness of life .
And here people don't even realise that !
Childish people with childish dreams !!!!! :mad: :(

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You can jump off a bridge, fire a gun in your mouth, drink poison,or going in to the tiger's pit but you will still end up dead it's a mater of time and how .
Posts: 312 | Registered: Sunday, November 26 2006 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 7579
Profile #22
dont think that aves nothing to do with G4 Upon Mars

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sup guys
Posts: 22 | Registered: Sunday, October 15 2006 07:00
Shaper
Member # 3442
Profile Homepage #23
quote:
Originally written by upon mars:

why is Diki and Niki like ice cream and why am i like that ?
What flavour? And why are us two, out of a couple hundred people "ice cream"?

Also, on topic, from what I've read and heard about GF4, I will probably be a member of this club when Jeff finally finishes the Windows port.

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And when you want to Live
How do you start?
Where do you go?
Who do you need to know?

Posts: 2864 | Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00
Councilor
Member # 6600
Profile Homepage #24
Originally by Nikki:

quote:
What flavour? And why are us two, out of a couple hundred people "ice cream"?
Probably because we've been nice to him. Or we give people brainfreezes. Whichever.

Dikiyoba.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00

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