"Turn al on" ...why?
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| Author | Topic: "Turn al on" ...why? |
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Apprentice
Member # 7561
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written Monday, October 9 2006 13:44
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When I click on a creation, below the stats are the following options: Statistics/Evolve creation Turn al on Make inactive I understand the "statistics/evolve creation" option, but the other two options have me baffled. Turn al on - This seems to give the creation "free will." It can do whatever it wants. Has anyone found a situation in the game where this would be beneficial? Make inactive - When a creation is made inactive, it does nothing while I move about --this makes sense. However, as soon as a fight starts, the creation becomes active. There have been times when I wanted to keep a creation out of battle and "deactivating" it seemed the solution ...except that it automatically becomes active again when a fight begins --granted I can keep it out of harms way & hit the space bar to skip its turn, but shouldn't inactivating a creation avoid the need for this? wp Posts: 1 | Registered: Monday, October 9 2006 07:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Monday, October 9 2006 14:16
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Originally by wagginpitbull: quote:I typically don't use the "Make inactive" option, but I can see uses for it--for instance, in making absolutely sure that Phariton doesn't see that I've taken his battle alpha in G2, or for keeping my creations out of the way while I try to disable mines. I would have liked to use it in G1 to keep my creations away from the damaging floors. None of those are situations where I'm likely to end up in combat (and I typically want my creations by me when in combat), so I don't have a complaint against the way it works. At least you can keep the creation from accidentally catching up to you (or worse, triggering a combat while catching up to you) while it is inactive. Dikiyoba hasn't found a use for a creation controlled by AI except for the principle of allowing it to be free and doing whatever it wants. But that principle breaks down as soon as combat ends and the creation follows your every move again. Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Monday, October 9 2006 17:10
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When you are short of essence it sometimes pays to use less intelligent creations. Usually you would rather control them since you can pick the targets they attack. However sometimes it doesn't matter. In GF2 I used a AI controlled creation early in the game and only added intelligence later to control it after the first 8 areas. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Monday, October 9 2006 18:25
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The longer you keep a creation with you, the stronger it will end up being. In G2 and G3, the intensity of this effect outweighs having a very high shaping skill. The result is that it's usually beneficial to create the creations you want as soon as you have the essence and skill. You can pump their INT later, when you have extra essence, but spending a few levels on perm AI is a small price to pay for having your creations be at a permanently higher level, by those several levels. As for make inactive: I use it whenever I have creations in tow and enter one of the damaging atmosphere zones (at least, the ones where the entrance is a safe area). -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 6222
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written Monday, October 9 2006 18:27
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activating AI makes fights go a lot faster. it also avoids problems with accidentally telling your creation to move instead of kill the thing next to it, or (even worse) telling it to skip it's turn by clicking on it. personally, i have found use for it in the form of large groups of thahds in early game. all i really wanted them to do was run up next to stuff and beat it to death, and then take a beating in return... why not just let the computer handle that? =D Posts: 109 | Registered: Sunday, August 14 2005 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2820
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written Monday, October 9 2006 19:17
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These buttons won't be used very often, especially because players usually want to be in constant control of their creations during combat. But every once in a while you might find a use for them. I don't remember ever using them myself simply because you could mimic its effects fairly easily, but that's just me. -------------------- Thuryl: I mean, most of us don't go around consuming our own bodily fluids, no matter how delicious they are. ==== Alorael: War and violence would end if we all had each other's babies! ==== Drakefyre: Those are hideous mangos. Posts: 1415 | Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 7488
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written Tuesday, October 10 2006 05:28
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quote:I don't like using the AI. Either my creations or my character (and in higher-level combat, both) will usually die horribly as a result. Come to think of it, I try to get by with NO creations as much as possible, even when playing as a Shaper. That way, I don't have to worry about them or the AI most of the time, and my character can level up a little faster. [ Tuesday, October 10, 2006 05:30: Message edited by: The Mystic ] -------------------- Either I'm crazy, or everybody else is nuts. And I know I'm not crazy because the little man who lives on my shoulder told me so. If people don't think there's something wrong with you, there's something wrong with you. Posts: 558 | Registered: Friday, September 15 2006 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 7143
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written Tuesday, October 10 2006 18:27
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But that means that when you do have a creation, it will be relativaly weak because it has no exp. -------------------- "After I'm dead I'd rather have people ask why I have no monument than why I have one." - Cato the Elder (234-149 BC) "The mind, if it exists, is nothing but an unfortunate after effect of the brain process." -Kripke "One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly." -Friedich Nietzche Posts: 333 | Registered: Saturday, May 20 2006 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 7488
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written Wednesday, October 11 2006 05:27
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quote:Not really, because I level up on various shaping skills before making any creations, and my creations usually start out fairly decent. Sometimes I wait until I've trained three times in making a creature before creating one, and just make the stronger version. -------------------- Either I'm crazy, or everybody else is nuts. And I know I'm not crazy because the little man who lives on my shoulder told me so. If people don't think there's something wrong with you, there's something wrong with you. Posts: 558 | Registered: Friday, September 15 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7472
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written Wednesday, October 11 2006 13:34
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quote:Except that, compared to an experienced 'weaker version' creature, it's the so-called stronger version that usually falls short. Of course, experienced means that the creation has been around for quite a while. Generally, if you make a creation once you get the ability, by the time you get a third level in that creation, your current creature will be stronger. However, like every good rule, there are a few exceptions. Fyora/Cryoa in GF3, for example. EDIT: Now that I think about it, this wasn't necessarily true in GF1. Creations didn't level up in GF1 like they did in GF2 & GF3. [ Wednesday, October 11, 2006 13:36: Message edited by: Nioca ] -------------------- Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them! Amnesia • Dilecia • The Empire's New Grove • Express Delivery Twilight Valley • Witch Hunt • Where the Rivers Meet • Foul Hordes Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2759
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written Wednesday, October 11 2006 14:16
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quote:Interesting. Your rule has been my exception. When I play as a Shaper I pump shaping stats early and I can use all creation types as soon as the ability becomes available. I frequently get to the third level ability before my earlier creation has leveled more than a couple of times, and so the equation works the other way. So many different ways to play... -------------------- "I can't read this thread with that image. But then, that's not a complaint." -Scorpius Geneforge 4 stuff. Also, everything I know about Avernum | Avernum 2 | Avernum 3 | Avernum 4 Posts: 1104 | Registered: Monday, March 10 2003 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 7488
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written Thursday, October 12 2006 06:04
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quote:You'd be surprised. Once I beat GF1 playing as a Shaper--a SOLO Shaper, making creations only when absolutely necessary, and destroying them again when I didn't. quote:Now, allow me to explain the method behind the madness. I have two basic rules. First, I never make a creature unless my shaping skill is at least 2 above the minimum; this starts the creature at higher levels. Second, I don't like to make a creature until its level is at least 2, preferably level 3. My only exception to these rules is if I can't complete an area without support, and I can't get my character strong enough to get through it solo. Using these rules, when I created my first Plated Clawbug, it was level 30-something, and was stronger than my character. (It was also my first Clawbug of any type!) [ Thursday, October 12, 2006 08:05: Message edited by: The Mystic ] -------------------- Either I'm crazy, or everybody else is nuts. And I know I'm not crazy because the little man who lives on my shoulder told me so. If people don't think there's something wrong with you, there's something wrong with you. Posts: 558 | Registered: Friday, September 15 2006 07:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Thursday, October 12 2006 06:49
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Yeah, G1 was very unbalanced with regard to creation strength and how your stats impacted that. The levels creations gained from experience gave them, essentially, half as much power as the levels they gained from your shaping skill when you created them. The nice thing about that is that it made this kind of "disposable creations" model worthwhile to play. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 7488
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written Thursday, October 12 2006 08:14
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quote:Tell me about it. I prefer as much experience as possible to go to my character, and that method allows it to happen. I use disposable creations with all the Geneforge games, though I've only fully tested that method in G1; I was out of work for a while, and haven't bought the registered versions of the others yet. -------------------- Either I'm crazy, or everybody else is nuts. And I know I'm not crazy because the little man who lives on my shoulder told me so. If people don't think there's something wrong with you, there's something wrong with you. Posts: 558 | Registered: Friday, September 15 2006 07:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Thursday, October 12 2006 18:46
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Disposable creations work less well in G2+ because levels from shaping skill only give half a point in each stat per level, just like regular levels. In G1 those bonus levels gave a full point per level. Combine that with the prohibitively high cost of raising your base shaping skill bonus too high above +10, and you will end up with creations that are SIGNIFICANTLY more powerful, by ten or thirty (!) levels depending on the creation, if you keep them around and let them gain experience. Meanwhile, because all characters gain xp relative to your PC's level only, no matter how much xp drain you have from companions, you will never be more than a small handful of levels behind a permasolo PC, about 1-4 levels. (The xp penalties for advantages in Avernum work the same way. They are hugely less significant than the bonuses of the advantage/creation.) -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Friday, October 13 2006 00:48
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quote:Depends on which Avernum game. Having a 90% XP penalty in Avernum 2 is a good way to gimp yourself, since it actually reduces the amount of XP you gain by 90% rather than just requiring you to gain 90% more XP to gain each level. In BoA and A4 it works differently, making loading up on advantages worthwhile (especially in A4). [ Friday, October 13, 2006 05:29: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Friday, October 13 2006 04:18
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Even under that system (which I haven't used, because every time I try to play A2 I end up replaying E2 instead) I imagine that a penalty of, say, 50%, would be unlikely to put you more than a few levels behind, and could easily be worthwhile depending on how advantages work in A2. And smaller penalties are almost identical under both systems: a -10% gained penalty is roughly equivalent to a +11% needed penalty, a -25% gained to a +33%, etc. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 7488
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written Wednesday, October 18 2006 09:53
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Say what you will about experience in any game or series, but my solo Shaper from G1 has been known to eat cryodrayks for breakfast--and that's before using the Geneforge. :D -------------------- Either I'm crazy, or everybody else is nuts. And I know I'm not crazy because the little man who lives on my shoulder told me so. If people don't think there's something wrong with you, there's something wrong with you. Posts: 558 | Registered: Friday, September 15 2006 07:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Wednesday, October 18 2006 10:27
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Well, it's not that hard to beat the snot out of everything if you play on a low difficulty level and/or with a good strategy. Dikiyoba. Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Wednesday, October 18 2006 12:45
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That's why it's so impressive that I use only really dumb strategy. Phear my mad stupidness skillz! -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Wednesday, October 18 2006 14:44
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But remember that it takes all kinds in this world, Student of Trinity. Someone has to be the expendable cannon fodder for the vlish and their allies when they finally begin their conquest. Dikiyoba. Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 7488
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written Friday, October 20 2006 06:35
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quote:There's a low difficulty setting? Just kidding; I know it's there, but I don't use it. Forthe record, I do have a strategy--sort of. When possible, I use diplomacy to get through an area; otherwise, I hack my way through. If I can't finish an area solo within 10 tries, I leave and come back with a stronger character. If I still can't do it, I come back with the strongest creations I can make. -------------------- Either I'm crazy, or everybody else is nuts. And I know I'm not crazy because the little man who lives on my shoulder told me so. If people don't think there's something wrong with you, there's something wrong with you. Posts: 558 | Registered: Friday, September 15 2006 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 7501
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written Saturday, October 21 2006 11:07
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why does so many arguments break out over the simplest things in these forums?? -------------------- previous display name was TAKE ALL SHAPER I am ALWAYS with you i know all that u do i know all of your secrets including how to shape Posts: 41 | Registered: Sunday, September 17 2006 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 5360
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written Saturday, October 21 2006 11:32
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-X- has a different strategy for the different classes. For a Shaper, -X- creates the creations best suited to the area, sends them out on patrol, stubbornly hacking and slashing until the objective is acheived, absorbs them, and moves on. For an Agent, -X- uses a "Lure" strategy. -X- sends a weaker creation by enemies, hastes him and sends him running back with two or three enemies in tow. For a Guardian, -X- goes on a "Raid" strategy. -X- himself goes along with a few decent creations, and attack them until he's in danger of death, sprints back to the exit, goes to heal, and repeats. -------------------- May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it. Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7472
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written Saturday, October 21 2006 12:30
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quote:This isn't an argument, it's a discussion. -------------------- Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them! Amnesia • Dilecia • The Empire's New Grove • Express Delivery Twilight Valley • Witch Hunt • Where the Rivers Meet • Foul Hordes Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00 |
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