Alwan and Greta questions

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AuthorTopic: Alwan and Greta questions
Warrior
Member # 7002
Profile #50
How about Jeff just resolves this damn issue by giving Alwan a new custom acid baton with multi-shot?

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Polaris
Posts: 193 | Registered: Thursday, April 6 2006 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
Profile #51
Multi-shot acid batons might be going a bit too far.

I agree with Slarty; don't make him a clone of Greta, just pile on the armor. Perhaps let people upgrade his resistance to different types of attacks.

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
Profile #52
Ideally, Alwan shouldn't have much offense.

Alwan should be a Guardian and gain defensive abilities. I mean, the missile attacks are nice and all, but he should be gaining defensive abilities at some point.

Edit. It would be perfect if Alwan could gain extra action points in the game somehow. 10 ap, like a plated bug. With a baton, he could shoot twice and rival Gretas offense.

Been thinking about this quite a bit.

[ Monday, June 12, 2006 17:04: Message edited by: Delicious Vlish ]

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If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish.

Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish.
Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00
Agent
Member # 6581
Profile Homepage #53
What about let him shape? Is too much?

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Posts: 1310 | Registered: Tuesday, December 20 2005 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 6403
Profile #54
begindefinecreature 5;
cr_name = "Alwan";
cr_base_level = 4;
cr_graphic_coloradj = 1024;
cr_regen_rate = 0;
cr_resistances 0 = 25;
cr_resistances 1 = 25;
cr_resistances 2 = 25;
cr_resistances 4 = 25;
cr_resistances 5 = 25;
cr_resistances 6 = 25;
cr_resistances 7 = 25;
cr_abil_num 1 = 50; // thorn
//cr_abil_num 1 = 54; // acid thorn
//cr_abil_num 1 = 56; // submission
cr_abil_level 0 = 5;
cr_bonus_aps = 2; // 10 ap total
There, when upgraded, just switch the slashes. He now has 10 ap. He has 1/4 resistances to everything. I'm not sure which resists go to which number, if I bother to spend the time later, I'll look it up. Lastly, "cr_resists 3 = " does not exist.

EDIT: I beleive I can make a multi-pronged submission attack. I'm working on it now.

EDIT2: Wasn't hard at all:
begindefineability 57;
ab_name = "Submission Spray";
ab_status_effect = 3;
ab_status_effect_base = 3;
ab_status_effect_per_level = 2;
ab_num_of_missiles = 3;
ab_missile_short_range = 1;
ab_impact_sound = 123;
ab_impact_sfx_effect = 9;
Ability number is 57.

EDIT3:
quote:
Originally written by MagmaDragoon:

What about let him shape? Is too much?
Yes. Most emphatically, yes. Even if I could give him the ability to do so, I wouldn't.

[ Tuesday, June 13, 2006 03:26: Message edited by: radix malorum est cupiditas ]

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??? ??????
???? ?????
Posts: 883 | Registered: Wednesday, October 19 2005 07:00
His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
Profile #55
So how does the upgrade work? When and where?

And how much is to much? One or even two extra abilities is one thing, but that many AP with multi shot is to much.

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If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish.

Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish.
Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #56
I would be very cautious about adding new ability or creature or item definitions. Modifying already existing ones is pretty safe, but we have no idea how Jeff stores the definitions in memory. It may not be set up to handle more than a certain number of abilities, or abilities that are not numbered a certain way. It's probably safe, but if it does cause an error, it could be an icky one. This goes without saying, but test that on a copy of the game folder and not the original.

Also, starting out with 10 AP *and* a baton *is* overpowered, way way way moreso than an acid baton would be. Plated Bugs don't have missile attacks, so their bonus AP isn't so hot. The 10 AP thing should be an upgrade, probably the last upgrade.

Also, starting out with 25% resistance to everything doesn't make sense either. That's a reasonable upgrade at some point, but to begin with non-armor resistances ought to be lower. Standard armor gives you half its armor value as resistance to energy, fire, and ice. Poison and acid resists deserve to be low, and mental effects certainly should be low or nonexistant given the quality of Alwan's reasoning :P

resistances:
0 physical
1 energy
2 fire
3 disruption (resistance is handled entirely by creature_type)
4 poison
5 acid
6 ice
7 mental

I'm not sure how stun is resisted by creations (if at all).

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 2245
Profile Homepage #57
DV:
quote:

I don't really view this as a cheat but more of a balance fix. One that should have been made before the game's release. It wasn't exactly game breaking, but it was extremely one sided how useful Greta was compared to Alwan. Loyalists couldn't keep Greta... She took off right as she was becoming quite powerful.

Which is why I keep saying that the script writers here should release some sort of unofficial mod which rebalances the game. :D

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VIVE LA TAKERS!
VIVE LA REBELLION!
VIVE LA GHALDRING!
Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 7152
Profile #58
I tried out taking both Alwan and Greta. It worked so well that I began to think that my party was seriously overpowered. I had hardly any problems, and I think I could try to take that same team (both human NPCs, one fyora, one artila) on torment level and survive.

I suppose the game has been written with the idea that you'll take at least one of them with you. That having been said, does anyone have any suggestions for playing without them? I realize that tactically, it's a bad idea, and I wouldn't bother trying it on torment. But I'd really like to find a way to play neutrally, without the NPC allies and without using cannisters.
Posts: 18 | Registered: Monday, May 22 2006 07:00
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #59
Tactically, it's a perfectly fine idea. Typical Agent tactics rely on making your one character unassailable through a combination of hit-and-run tactics, brute speed, and buffing spells. Shapers, meanwhile, can make creations that are significantly more powerful than Alwan and Greta, for minimal essence, and can do so fairly early. Arguably, Artila go in that category. Vlish certainly do.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 7143
Profile #60
Agents really do NOT need either one (or at least the way I play one torment). I do a lot of hit and run including a lot of hiding from some monsters while attracting others. Having either one would be a liablility to attract more monsters. The only time I ever had these two with my current agent was to absorb some damage when I killed the mage on the first island who was trying to learn shaping (no canister loyalist).

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"After I'm dead I'd rather have people ask why I have no monument than why I have one."
- Cato the Elder (234-149 BC)

"The mind, if it exists, is nothing but an unfortunate after effect of the brain process."
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-Friedich Nietzche
Posts: 333 | Registered: Saturday, May 20 2006 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 7152
Profile #61
You killed him? I am impressed. I didn't know that was even an option, but I don't often pay that much attention to dialogue choices that I violently disagree with. (I violently disagree with anything that would result in my violent death.)

Hit and run ... perhaps I'll try that. I wonder if I can pull off a hit and run shaper with one artila?
Posts: 18 | Registered: Monday, May 22 2006 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #62
quote:
Originally written by chibi kaie:

You killed him? I am impressed. I didn't know that was even an option, but I don't often pay that much attention to dialogue choices that I violently disagree with.
If your aim is to kill someone, you don't need to talk to them first.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #63
Yes, but a commonly accepted policy in SW games is not to gut non-hostile NPCs until they attack, insult your mother or strongly disagree with you.

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I have a love of woodwind instruments.
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #64
Sometimes it's easier to kill a non-hostile NPC by going through the dialog options and then finish and go into attack mode to get first strike. Some dialog options where you say you will kill it cause you to get killed when they strike first.

I didn't think about killing that mage. I did kill them in the Refuge after watching Greta die when I was exploring the back rooms. I found augmenting the party helps you survive long enough.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 7152
Profile #65
I killed Aiglos by accident once by convincing him to join me in the artila hunt and not bothering to heal him when he got hit with acid (I say it was his fault, he kept rushing ahead), but I didn't think to see if he stayed dead (i.e. if I could then explore the Refuge with impunity). Is there anything good there (i.e. is it worth doing it on purpose, presuming I'm being ruthless anyway)?
Posts: 18 | Registered: Monday, May 22 2006 07:00
Councilor
Member # 6600
Profile Homepage #66
Dikiyoba thinks that there was a topic about this recently, and Dikiyoba thinks that the general consensus was no.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
Profile Homepage #67
quote:
Originally written by chibi kaie:

I killed Aiglos by accident once by convincing him to join me in the artila hunt and not bothering to heal him when he got hit with acid (I say it was his fault, he kept rushing ahead), but I didn't think to see if he stayed dead (i.e. if I could then explore the Refuge with impunity). Is there anything good there (i.e. is it worth doing it on purpose, presuming I'm being ruthless anyway)?
Considering the difficulty of the enemies in the Refuge, as somebody said before, if you can defeat them, you don't need their loot. So the only reason to do it would be as a challenge for your low level party.

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Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #68
One of the main problems with killing NPCs -- like Aiglos -- is that if they are tied to a quest reward, you have to talk to them to clear the quest from your quest list and get the experience (and items, if applicable) as a reward.

Jeff's way of having NPCs be attackable is yet another holdover from the Ultima games, in which you could typically kill Lord Brittish without any consequences to the game world whatsoever.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #69
I killed everyone in the Refuge, and found you need to augment the party if you don't want anyone to die when they go hostile. Maybe attacking first instead of triggering them by going into a locked room will work. There is an iron sword in a back room and some pods. Nothing special unless you are running a guardian. I guess I came out ahead on money for burning 2 essence pods.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
Profile #70
I always go in there with my Agents... I need that iron sword. Early game in Torment, when I am low on energy and not much on power and a slight breeze could take half my hit points, I need that iron sword. When I daze everything, I can melee safely. Unless of course, I damage it, but fail to kill it. Next round, it might just kill me.

With the iron sword and a bit of war blessing, I can follow the Agent's Mantra. One shot, one kill. I have a fair bit of confidence that when I daze something, and go in for the kill with that iron sword, I will finish it off, completing yet another Agent Mantra. If I stab it, one of us will die. If not mine enemy, then I.

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If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish.

Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish.
Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00

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