ADV Shaping (Battle Gamma & Co.)

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Author	Topic: ADV Shaping (Battle Gamma & Co.)
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Saturday, June 3 2006 05:48 Profile Homepage #25 Implementing the 'slowing' move away feature of A4 would be a great way to restore the value of battle creations. I'll second that. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Saturday, June 3 2006 07:09 Profile Homepage #26 The 'slowing' mechanism is a great idea. Or you could implement the mechanism used for breaking melee in Exile. The opponent gets a free swing. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Saturday, June 3 2006 10:35 Profile Homepage #27 Hmm. On second thought, it is a great idea, but it still needs to be accompanied by battle creations having better attacks than other creations. A vlish's melee attack is close to as good as a clawbug's, arguably better because it poisons; unless something makes clawbug attacks better or vlish attacks worse, slowing won't make me use clawbugs, it will just make me change how I use vlish, who are still superior. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Grain of Salt Infiltrator Member # 6652	written Saturday, June 3 2006 11:00 Profile #28 How about we replace the Vlish's melee attack with a weaker one and use the current one for Clawbugs? -------------------- But I don't want to ride the elevator. Posts: 420 \| Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
Delicious Vlish His Mighty Tentacle Member # 627	written Saturday, June 3 2006 13:12 Profile #29 The other idea is to introduce a second attack somehow in creations. Sort of a rarer secondary attack that they have a small chance of using. With a clawbug, you could, say, somehow allow for a multi target attack (Which the Guardian also needs) like a pincer swipe or a claw crush. To have those big pincers and never use them is such a shame. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 \| Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00
*i The Establishment Member # 6	written Saturday, June 3 2006 17:28 Profile #30 quote: A little bit of randomness + unpredictability always makes a game more fun! Sounds like save/load abuse time. :P But seriously, I do think Vlish need to be depowered quite a bit. Their attacks should do minimal damage, but bestow nasty status effects (heavy stun/curse for normal and terror for the advanced) instead. This would make it hard for a Vlish to kill anything, but it would make their role more of a support one adding to the tactics. Clawbugs could have a chance to poison in addition to their normal attack, that would make them a bit more effective. Battle Betas need something special, perhaps 20% resistance to all damage or something sweet like that making them harder to kill. I do like the idea of stun immunity for the battle alpha, beta, gamma class. Drakons pretty much suck right now. My suggestion would be to allow them to shape random low level creations that disappear after a while. These creations would act more as summons and not be under the player's control, but it would be useful to have more free Fryoas and such. [ Saturday, June 03, 2006 17:42: Message edited by: i ] -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726* \| Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Dikiyoba Councilor Member # 6600	written Saturday, June 3 2006 17:51 Profile Homepage #31 Originally by Delicious Vlish: quote: G3's Bug Baron cheated and got Glaahks. Well, glaahks look buglike, at least. ----- Originally by i: quote: Sounds like save/load abuse time. Agreed. If anything random were added to the game, it would have to be set up so that the player can't immediately reload and get something different. After all, anyone who had the patience to get the complete Geneforge 1 easter egg will sit and reload until they finally get the battle gamma they are after. ----- Originally by MagmaDragoon: quote: Where is the third person? It's there. You quoted it. In fact, you remind me of the adage "A broken clock is right twice a day" because you keep pointing out the first-person in my points in the hope that I messed up my gimmick. Unfortunately, Dikiyoba has somewhat arbitrarily decided that MagmaDragoon is not a broken clock, but rather a clock that is always 27 minutes and 33 seconds behind. :P Posts: 4346* \| Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
ReMeMbEr Agent Member # 6581	written Sunday, June 4 2006 01:42 Profile Homepage #32 :D quote: Originally written by i: [QUOTE] Drakons pretty much suck right now. My suggestion would be to allow them to shape random low level creations that disappear after a while. These creations would act more as summons and not be under the player's control, but it would be useful to have more free Fryoas and such. This would mean that Drakon have in theirs genes the ability of shape. No, I wouldn't like it. I suggest, instead, a more powerful attack that scare the player (and more endurance). They are Drakons, big, tall, strong: why don't fear them? -------------------- Download Geneforge 4: Rebellion You have 6 posts. Nobody cares what you think. - Thuryl Wikipedia may be your friend, but UBB is not. - Dikiyoba Posts: 1310* \| Registered: Tuesday, December 20 2005 08:00
Suspicious Vlish Infiltrator Member # 2245	written Sunday, June 4 2006 01:43 Profile Homepage #33 Knockback is a great idea. They implemented it in D2, I don't see why giant creations can't smack their opponents back a few paces. -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 \| Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
*i The Establishment Member # 6	written Sunday, June 4 2006 05:31 Profile #34 quote: This would mean that Drakon have in theirs genes the ability of shape. No, I wouldn't like it. I suggest, instead, a more powerful attack that scare the player (and more endurance). They are Drakons, big, tall, strong: why don't fear them? You do realize that in GF2, Barzahl created the Drakon with the ability to shape other creatures, that's what makes them so powerful, dangerous, and unique. They are the only creation with the ability to make other creations and has been well documented. Letting the player use a "summon" like ability would be consistent with the storyline. I agree, a more powerful attack would be neat, but any other creation could get better attacks. I could say the same thing about Battle Betas and such. I'd say let them use their ability to shape. What you get should probably be dependent upon the intelligence stat. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 \| Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Bojan Infiltrator Member # 5754	written Sunday, June 4 2006 05:57 Profile #35 You should be able to buy creation shaping for your Drakon. Like it starts out with only create fyora, but you can buy say.... create glahk for it and then it would be able to create a glahk. Posts: 626 \| Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
*i The Establishment Member # 6	written Sunday, June 4 2006 06:03 Profile #36 That might be going a bit too far. I'd say keep it simple. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 \| Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
ReMeMbEr Agent Member # 6581	written Sunday, June 4 2006 06:33 Profile Homepage #37 quote: Originally written by i: [QUOTE]You do realize that in GF2, Barzahl created the Drakon with the ability to shape other creatures, that's what makes them so powerful, dangerous, and unique. They are the only creation with the ability to make other creations and has been well documented. Letting the player use a "summon" like ability would be consistent with the storyline. I see. Drakons must be more powerful, and shaping is consistent with the storyline. Right. quote: Originally written by i: That might be going a bit too far. I'd say keep it simple. Agreed. -------------------- Download Geneforge 4: Rebellion You have 6 posts. Nobody cares what you think. - Thuryl Wikipedia may be your friend, but UBB is not. - Dikiyoba Posts: 1310 \| Registered: Tuesday, December 20 2005 08:00
Dikiyoba Councilor Member # 6600	written Sunday, June 4 2006 06:43 Profile Homepage #38 The only problem with drakons being able to shape is that the shaped creations will be too weak to do much. A newly-created, ordinary fyora cannot attack or defend well against an eyebeast. On the other hand, drakons could shape the more powerful charged creations, which would make charged creations more interesting as well. Dikiyoba. Posts: 4346 \| Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Delicious Vlish His Mighty Tentacle Member # 627	written Sunday, June 4 2006 06:46 Profile #39 Allow Ur Drakkons the ability to shape Pyro-Creations, like Pyroroamers or PyroDryaks... Hahahah! :P No worries about the creations staying around all that long, and there is a very real danger to you. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 \| Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Sunday, June 4 2006 07:44 Profile Homepage #40 The AI is annoying enough without giving it the ability to directly kill you by accident :P -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Delicious Vlish His Mighty Tentacle Member # 627	written Sunday, June 4 2006 07:52 Profile #41 As far as advanced shaping goes... I want to shape war bred serviles to do my bidding. And have them armed with batons and blades. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 \| Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00
Mike Montgomery Shock Trooper Member # 2599	written Monday, June 5 2006 13:03 Profile #42 quote: Originally written by MagmaDrakoon: [QB]Something like a logic-game: put all genes in correct order to obtain normal creation, or try to change genes positions for amazing effects! Maybe, you can still shape normally during travelling, but if you go in a shaper lab, with adeguate skills (here another function for shaping skills!)/equipment (resarch notes, shaping equipment or other) you can try to create something new! And if you make something good you can choice to "record" ... QB] I like this original suggestion. Like most mutations, a random mutation would with very high probability result in disability or death. But perhaps certain research notes could contain clues based on countless hours of research by others. And by obtaining sufficient clues and solving (like a logic puzzle) one could come up with a gene pattern with an enhanced ability of some kind. There could be several different advanced abilities to find. It could be like having clues from 6 different logic puzzles intermixed. First one would have to make sure of what puzzle each clue went with, and then when sufficient clues were obtained, solve the puzzle. The puzzles would have to be randomized at the beginning of any new game in some way, so that a spoiler would not be useful. For example, a gene pattern in one game might be: DDAABCD, for a different game CCBBDAC. (Each letter gets substititued for another in the pattern AND relevant clues.) Sounds like a lot of work for the designer, but sounds like a lot of fun, too! Posts: 201 \| Registered: Thursday, February 6 2003 08:00
ReMeMbEr Agent Member # 6581	written Tuesday, June 6 2006 02:49 Profile Homepage #43 Thanks, Mike. I know that would be a lot of work for the designer, but I don't like the attual idea to click-and-shape. -------------------- Download Geneforge 4: Rebellion You have 6 posts. Nobody cares what you think. - Thuryl Wikipedia may be your friend, but UBB is not. - Dikiyoba Posts: 1310 \| Registered: Tuesday, December 20 2005 08:00
*i The Establishment Member # 6	written Tuesday, June 6 2006 04:00 Profile #44 quote: Originally written by MagmaDragoon: Thanks, Mike. I know that would be a lot of work for the designer, but I don't like the attual idea to click-and-shape. I'm fine with "click-and-shape" for the basic creations, it keeps the game quite simple. I would, however, not be opposed to some sort of alchemy thing for more exotic creations. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 \| Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Randomizer Law Bringer Member # 6785	written Tuesday, June 6 2006 04:08 Profile #45 When you try for augmented creations, you should have a good chance of getting it to turn rogue like in GF1 with the Sholai researcher killed by the beta. Of course save/reload would eliminate any bad result so Jeff would need to make it hard to get to the point where you learn enough to try augmentation of creations, Posts: 4643 \| Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
ReMeMbEr Agent Member # 6581	written Tuesday, June 6 2006 04:09 Profile Homepage #46 Well, maybe the "game" can be very simple for basic creations, for don't annoy the player. And maybe, shaping "normal" creation would be easy, but try to power-up a creation or create something new would be more hard (You would need a recipie, maybe). quote: Originally written by Randomizer: Of course save/reload would eliminate any bad result so Jeff would need to make it hard to get to the point where you learn enough to try augmentation of creations, This is normal... Another thing that could eliminate bad result would be a "ADV Shaping Guide". [ Tuesday, June 06, 2006 04:11: Message edited by: MagmaDragoon ] -------------------- Download Geneforge 4: Rebellion You have 6 posts. Nobody cares what you think. - Thuryl Wikipedia may be your friend, but UBB is not. - Dikiyoba Posts: 1310 \| Registered: Tuesday, December 20 2005 08:00
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Tuesday, June 6 2006 05:50 Profile Homepage #47 Random results on that kind of scale = really, really bad. It would be one thing, though, to have a really complex algorithm that seemed sort of random, but where the same input always gave you the same output. That would encourage empirical experimentation, rather than just magic 8 ball save-reloads. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Dikiyoba Councilor Member # 6600	written Tuesday, June 6 2006 07:37 Profile Homepage #48 I don't really like the idea of having a random chance or playing a game to create a good creation. It feels unnecessarily tedious somehow. Needing find a Shaping vat or needing a few special items or ingredients before being able to create a powerful creation makes sense, though. Dikiyoba. Posts: 4346 \| Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Zeviz Nuke and Pave Member # 24	written Tuesday, June 6 2006 16:08 Profile Homepage #49 Puzzle games are fun. Irrelevant puzzles that pop up in the middle of an RPG aren't. Especially if the puzzle is either poorly connected to what my character is supposedly doing (like asking player to arrange genes in a pattern when the character is casting a spell), or so hard that I have to go online for answers (like puzzles in some BoE scenarios). The "find notes that you show to person A, who gives you instructions that can only be deciphered with help of person B, whom you have to find in a dangerous remote area" kind of puzzles work better in RPGs if done well. However, if done poorly these can also get quite tedious. As for randomness in a game, any random elements have to be decided at the start of the game, to avoid save/reload problem. So each game would be unique, while each reload within a given game would produce same result. [ Tuesday, June 06, 2006 16:11: Message edited by: Zeviz ] -------------------- Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword, For it too has the power to kill. However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword, Can also have the power to heal. Posts: 2649 \| Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00

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