Exile vs. Avernum

AuthorTopic: Exile vs. Avernum
Apprentice
Member # 4763
Profile Homepage #0
Does anyone else miss being able to hold 2 one-handed weapons, and having dozens of spells at your disposal that you'd probably never want to use? Also, most of the more powerful spells targeted an area, rather than individual monsters, and you could create fields. I liked that. Not to dis the Avernum Trilogy, it's just missing some features I really liked in Exile...

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I once killed a man for his teeth.
Posts: 25 | Registered: Thursday, July 22 2004 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #1
It will surprise you to know that you are the first person ever to mention any of these things, and that nobody else misses them at all.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Agent
Member # 2820
Profile #2
Not quite. In the long winded and mostly redundant debates between Avernum and Exile, area of effect spells, more spells in general, and ambidextrous capability have been mentioned a few times. But I too am frustrated with Avernum's spell target system.

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Thuryl: I mean, most of us don't go around consuming our own bodily fluids, no matter how delicious they are.
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Alorael: War and violence would end if we all had each other's babies!
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Drakefyre: Those are hideous mangos.
Posts: 1415 | Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00
Agent
Member # 3349
Profile Homepage #3
I miss all those spells too. The blade and force walls were awesome and it really dissapointed me when Avernum didn't have any. To be exact, Avenrum has few good spells, and even fewer spells at all.

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And everybody say....Yatta!
Posts: 1287 | Registered: Thursday, August 14 2003 07:00
Warrior
Member # 3946
Profile Homepage #4
Well, there was a blade wall spell, but it was limited to being placed on an opponent, meaning you couldn't strategically place them, and not to mention you can't suicide a party member for fun :(
Posts: 167 | Registered: Saturday, January 31 2004 08:00
For Carnage, Apply Within
Member # 95
Profile #5
quote:
Originally written by Garrison:

Not quite. In the long winded and mostly redundant debates between Avernum and Exile, area of effect spells, more spells in general, and ambidextrous capability have been mentioned a few times. But I too am frustrated with Avernum's spell target system.
Sarcasm aimed at you is more wasted than me during happy hour.

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The Empire Always Loses: More fun than a kick in the shins!
Posts: 567 | Registered: Friday, October 5 2001 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 3933
Profile #6
there are many people who prefer exile, actually.
i would be one of them, if the graphics werent that awful.

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OH MY GOD IT'S THE FUNKY ****!!!
Posts: 425 | Registered: Wednesday, January 28 2004 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 60
Profile #7
quote:
Originally written by Prince Albert in a Can:

It will surprise you to know that you are the first person ever to mention any of these things, and that nobody else misses them at all.
Them's fightin' words around the older crew. I miss it. So what if Avernum gives you the chance to weild a 2h weapon? Sure, you can get assassination damage added to it. But in E2, Alien Blade-Shocking Wave Blade combo essentially gave you the same damage as an A2 2h weapon+assassination damage. Add to that the chance of assassination kicking in on the Alien Blade, plus any poison damage if the poor sap survives the initial blows.
Area spells were the bomb. They didn't hit X enemies per Y levels in skill Z. They depended on your positioning and your opponents' positioning. Thus, watching where you walked now required strategy. They also made early-game fights a bit easier.
Fields were also helpful, especially after it was discovered that doomguards couldn't split into fields. And once you learned Anitmagic Cloud, you could actually take on several rakshasi at once and stand a chance!
And, something no one has yet mentioned: random items. Certainly, things like special loot (the aforementioned weapons, for example, and dragon loot) are fixed. But as for things like monster drops, things are randomized. In Avernum, they're relatively fixed. While this lends to realism, it also means that if you take the steup of (sword/bow/thief,spear/throwing,pure mage,pure priest, assume all characters use a sheild), then 90% of parties are going to end up with almost identical equipment.

Granted, Avernum does have good points, like different levels of spells (as opposed to a new, more powerful spell). Also, the terrain elevation engine, while not much for function, showed us cool things.

And as for Ferox, Avernum's graphics aren't much to look at, either.

Overall, though, I'd take Exile of Avernum any day. Not only for the reasons stated above, but also because it simply took (and still takes) me longer to complete E2 than A2 (don't have full of E1 or A3, I'm poor)

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"Insanity is okay, but stupidity is inexcusable." -Kenda Nicole Brand

Jacob say, "Man who smoke pot, choke on handle." -Jacob Doran
Posts: 202 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #8
I obviously need to signal my sarcasm better. Every single one of the topics he mentions has been discussed repeatedly on these boards.

[ Friday, October 08, 2004 18:16: Message edited by: Prince Albert in a Can ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 60
Profile #9
Indeed, then. The <sarcasm></sarcasm> tags used to be used, but I think everyone has forgotton about them...

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"Insanity is okay, but stupidity is inexcusable." -Kenda Nicole Brand

Jacob say, "Man who smoke pot, choke on handle." -Jacob Doran
Posts: 202 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 3933
Profile #10
not forgotten but abandoned. tags like those simply destroys any good sarcasm.

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OH MY GOD IT'S THE FUNKY ****!!!
Posts: 425 | Registered: Wednesday, January 28 2004 08:00
Babelicious
Member # 3149
Profile Homepage #11
quote:
Originally written by PantherShadow:

[QUOTE]Them's fightin' words around the older crew.
Thuryl is just about as old as it gets when it comes to the older crew, actually. He's hardly a SW tyro.

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I've got a pyg in a poke.
Posts: 999 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 303
Profile #12
If ya'll don't mind if I say something, I liked Exile for the variety of spells and the randomness. But I also like Avernum for the graphics and the spell upgrades. Each type of game has it's good and bad points. :cool:

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My name's Solberg. Pronounced Sol-Berg. Exile/Avernum's Greatest LIVING Archmage! I'm sure you've heard of me at some point.
Posts: 385 | Registered: Tuesday, November 20 2001 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 152
Profile #13
I personally found one of the most significant thing taken out in Avernum that really affected character development is the change of how sp is recovered.

In the entire Exile series, IIRC, it will regenerate over time, anywhere. In Avernum, IIRC also, they only regenerate outdoors, and at a really fast rate.

For my two "pure-fighters", they'll start with 2 levels of priest spells (and the free sp along with it), and they can use Wound as they close in on enemies. This gives them a 100% hitting non-resistable long range damage ability that is constantly reusable. I really liked the way I can have everyone in my party doing serious magic (mage/priest levels are usually 0/2 x 2, 5/3 x 2, and a 7/5 + 5/7) while also being able to dish out crazy melee damage to boot. Taking out an entire Empire army in 1-2 turns is not uncommon for my team.
Posts: 43 | Registered: Friday, October 12 2001 07:00
Agent
Member # 4506
Profile Homepage #14
The Exiles are nice, I used to have them before I had Avernums, but the entire system is just too out-dated for decent play anymore. I'd think that if Jeff totally re-writes them (just with the same abilites etc.) then a lot more people would go back to Exile, instead of Avernum. Yes, Avernum lacks an awful lot of the spells that I enjoyed form the Exile trilogy and BoE, but that involves a lot more coding (obviously), and the game is still enjoyable even without it!

- Archmagi Micael

P.S> I'll leave you guessing which one I support! :D

Oh also, those marks are even more outdated than EXILE is!

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"You dare Trifle with Avernum?" ~ Erika the Archmage
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My Scenarios:
Undead Valley : A small Undead problem, what could possibly go wrong?
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Posts: 1370 | Registered: Thursday, June 10 2004 07:00
Warrior
Member # 5091
Profile #15
quote:
Originally written by Archmagi Micael:

The Exiles are nice, I used to have them before I had Avernums, but the entire system is just too out-dated for decent play anymore.
You mean that somehow as time went on, the game actually changed and became harder to play?

Wow. Talk about bitrot.
Posts: 180 | Registered: Friday, October 15 2004 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #16
No, he means that standards changed as technology improved, and by more recent standards, the game fares worse in a judging of its merits than it did by the standards when it was released.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Warrior
Member # 5091
Profile #17
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

No, he means that standards changed as technology improved, and by more recent standards, the game fares worse in a judging of its merits than it did by the standards when it was released.
How would that prevent "decent play"? I don't see how that changes the experience at all. A person who enjoyed Exile in 1996 shouldn't be prevented from enjoying it in 2004.

Perhaps the average or new gamer's expectations are different now, but Micael basically suggested that the game is actually worse now.
I know Ultima 4 is as fun as ever, and it was released in 1987.
Posts: 180 | Registered: Friday, October 15 2004 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #18
Well, differing standards can change one's mindset when viewing a game. Enjoying the experience of playing a game is not just dependent on the game, after all; the person matters, too. If the person is different, then the experience will feel different.

I tried to play the original Zelda a few days ago for the first time, and the game just seems dated. It might still be fun, but it won't be as impressive as it might have been when it first came out.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Warrior
Member # 5091
Profile #19
Sorry you're a spluttery neophile, then.
Posts: 180 | Registered: Friday, October 15 2004 07:00