How evil is too evil>

Pages

AuthorTopic: How evil is too evil>
Shaper
Member # 3442
Profile Homepage #25
If you are going to do these things, have a reason. Randomly throwing things around isn't a good idea, and when you're playing with things like rape, people will get upset.

If you have the talent to be able to include something like this, make it tasteful, and make sure it adds to the story.

That said, I'd prefer to meet a bad guy who can convince you he isn't bad. I'm making one at the minute. He isn't evil, but the choices he makes, and the actions that come out of these make him a bad guy to many people.

--------------------
And when you want to Live
How do you start?
Where do you go?
Who do you need to know?

Posts: 2864 | Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #26
Interesting. I've got the same thing in my upcoming BoE scenario.

--------------------
"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 4637
Profile Homepage #27
Have you noticed that people demand a good motive for an evil guy to be evil, but don't care why a good guy is good? :P

If you design in your scenario a kid helping an old lady cross the road without justifying it, that's gratuitious good. :P

Anyway, I don't agree about good/evil blending. You can make "grey" characters without blending good/evil. Remember that "grey" is just white tainted black (or vice-versa), so the binary good/evil is always present. Keep that binary clear.

--------------------
Visit the Blades of Avernum Center
and the Beta Testing Center

--------------
"Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ." Colossians 2:6-9
Posts: 483 | Registered: Tuesday, June 29 2004 07:00
Shaper
Member # 32
Profile #28
Well in the ideal world, people are supposed to be good without reason...

--------------------
Lt. Sullust
Cogito Ergo Sum
Polaris
Posts: 2462 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #29
Some people are just nice people. And some people are just mean. And some people are trying to earn a merit badge, or feel guilty because they let their own grandma die in a tragic street-crossing accident, or want to steal a purse or two, or have a soft spot for old ladies because they remind them of their own grandma, who is an old folks home and used to be so vibrant, but now she is doddering and it's sad, really, and while people should have motives, it's not too wild to say that 'being a nice person' is a motive, or 'total world domination' is a motive, and if you really want more information on this, I wrote some articles on the subject that you can find at spidweb, or on my own Blades of Avernum page, so hopefully it won't be too hard, and your scenario will come out soon and shock us all with its beautiful towns and outdoors and really blow us away.

--------------------
"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #30
quote:
Originally written by Overwhelming:

Have you noticed that people demand a good motive for an evil guy to be evil, but don't care why a good guy is good? :P
Actually, that's not true. Characters who randomly show up out of the woodwork to help the player out are panned just as much as random unmotivated villains when they appear in BoE scenarios -- they're just less universal. When a character does something helpful to the party that's blatantly unreasonable and out of character for them, players complain just as much as when a character does something harmful that's blatantly unreasonable and out of character; look at some of the criticism of Spears on CSR for examples of this.

Likewise, the party (who are, if not actually "good", then at least carrying out actions that the player ought to sympathise with) should have sufficient motivation for doing whatever it is they're doing.

quote:
Anyway, I don't agree about good/evil blending. You can make "grey" characters without blending good/evil. Remember that "grey" is just white tainted black (or vice-versa), so the binary good/evil is always present. Keep that binary clear.
I'm not even sure what kind of distinction you're trying to make here.

As far as I'm concerned, all that's important is that each character in a scenario is believable; that their actions might plausibly be those of a real person placed in the same situation. It's very rare for real people to help others purely for the sake of doing good or harm others purely for the sake of doing evil, so from my perspective terms like "good" and "evil" are of no use to a storyteller.

[ Monday, July 18, 2005 04:54: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

--------------------
The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #31
Whee!

--------------------
"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Warrior
Member # 6096
Profile Homepage #32
It's risky, in a way. Described violence (especially detailed violence) tends to cause a stronger reaction in the reader, so it has to be used carefully.

As has been said, there should be some kind of motivations, or a believable background or something that makes the player think there's a reason for you to include the violence.

I wouldn't take pornography seriously in a Blades scenario.
Posts: 77 | Registered: Sunday, July 10 2005 07:00
By Committee
Member # 4233
Profile #33
Pornography is pretty beside the point in fantasy cRPGs. I don't know that it's ever really added to a particular game unless it's what the game is about, like the Leisure Suit Larry series.
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
Profile Homepage #34
quote:
Originally written by Drakefyre:

Whee!
Whee x2!

--------------------
SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 4637
Profile Homepage #35
quote:
I'm not even sure what kind of distinction you're trying to make here.

Basically, justifying "evil" actions, not distinguishing "evil" from "good", etc.

--------------------
Visit the Blades of Avernum Center
and the Beta Testing Center

--------------
"Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ." Colossians 2:6-9
Posts: 483 | Registered: Tuesday, June 29 2004 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #36
It's the player's job to make those distinctions, not the designer's.

--------------------
The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 6068
Profile #37
Boy, just this is getting deep... I should probably play Diplomacy With The Dead one more time.

--------------------
"Sometimes I get all hungry!
And then I catch some flies!
They fly into my webs!
They are really yummy guys!"
-Spider
Posts: 209 | Registered: Monday, July 4 2005 07:00
Warrior
Member # 4566
Profile #38
IMO: I like a bad guy that makes the player hate him. I've always thought Putidus(sp?) was a very well developed bad guy. I really, really hated that guy. About the sex in the game, leave that out. I mean, having prostitutes is ok in the game, but allwoing the player to use their... "services" is just going too far.

--------------------
samurai56:the video game guide you don't have to buy!
Posts: 51 | Registered: Thursday, June 17 2004 07:00
Warrior
Member # 4204
Profile #39
Was there any need to resurrect this topic?

--------------------
What really went on there, we only have this excerpt...
Posts: 68 | Registered: Sunday, April 4 2004 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 309
Profile #40
I'd just like to re-affirm my support for a well written evil scenario. Put in whatever, sex, drugs, and rock and roll. Just make sure you don't put the stuff in for the sake of having it, give everything a reason for being there.

Oh, and Ash, Johnny favourtie was an excellent scenario, but I don't even consider it a real scenario. It was too short and simple. More like reading a short story of some sort than playing a scenario.
Posts: 17 | Registered: Friday, November 23 2001 08:00
Shake Before Using
Member # 75
Profile #41
Amusingly, the prostitute in Cresent Valley also carried a frigging huge sword and was by far the toughest NPC to kill in that town. I guess in that way, she had a bit of character, even if the scenario made her blindingly generic. >_>
Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #42
I don't care as long as it is entertaining...

--------------------
Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
Profile Homepage #43
Certainly Johnny Favourite is a well-made scenario, I'll give it that. It does what it sets out to do very well. I just don't like what it sets out to do.

--------------------
SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00

Pages