Some ideas Jeff will never look at....

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AuthorTopic: Some ideas Jeff will never look at....
Guardian
Member # 2080
Profile #0
Here are some thoughts for BoA. Some have already been mentioned, but I'm mentioning them again.

1) Computer controled NPCs.

2) Item graphics being stored in a special file so you can keep those neat items with their neat graphics you sometimes get in various scenarios.

3) A mass damage, non targeting, spell(ie Fireball, Divine thud, ect)

4) The ability to have a monster replace a freshly slain monster and be it in the same spot the now dead monster was in.

5) Give anyone who buys BoA and actually releases good a BoA scenario a free copy of any Spiderweb game they choose... Yeah friggin right. Oh well. Worth a shot.

6) A nice spot in a mental instatution for when BoA scenario designers lose their minds making scenarios on BoA... Not bloody likely.
Posts: 1918 | Registered: Sunday, October 13 2002 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 461
Profile #1
"1) Computer controled NPCs."
BoE designers are already able to do this. Jeff said this feature will be in there, and you will also be able to have NPCs join your party like in the Avernum games.

"2) Item graphics being stored in a special file so you can keep those neat items with their neat graphics you sometimes get in various scenarios."
The item graphics are stored in files, you can easily transfer them between scenarios.

"3) A mass damage, non targeting, spell(ie Fireball, Divine thud, ect)"
This would be nice and I miss the style of the fireball compared to stuff like lightning spray. But it might not work with the graphical engine, and at least we have cloud of blades.

"4) The ability to have a monster replace a freshly slain monster and be it in the same spot the now dead monster was in."
That would be cool. Maybe it'll be possible with the scripting engine?

5) Give anyone who buys BoA and actually releases good a BoA scenario a free copy of any Spiderweb game they choose... Yeah friggin right. Oh well. Worth a shot.
Uh...right. :)

6) A nice spot in a mental instatution for when BoA scenario designers lose their minds making scenarios on BoA... Not bloody likely.
Uh...right. :)

[ Thursday, March 20, 2003 13:50: Message edited by: jwj442 ]

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"If you held a weapon to Fwiffo's head, he would say anything you wanted him to. In fact, if you held a vegetable to Fwiffo's head, he'd say whatever you wanted him to." - Spathi high council, Star Control 2.
Posts: 346 | Registered: Sunday, December 30 2001 08:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #2
quote:
Originally posted by Lone Flame:
4) The ability to have a monster replace a freshly slain monster and be it in the same spot the now dead monster was in.
This was possible in BoE and will be in BoA too.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
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Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #3
1. Jeff has already said that monsters will be highly customizable and that computer-controlled monsters will be able to follow the party, head of on their own, or do other things. It's a bit vague, but almost certainly more will be possible in BoA than BoE.

5. Just try to keep up Jeff's interest in scenario contests. I believe he gave away games as prizes in some contests, and I know he did it for SubTerra level contests.

—Alorael, who doesn't think suggestion six is necessary. Insane developers should feel right at home here at Spiderweb.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Shaper
Member # 73
Profile #4
I didn't know it was possible in BoE to place a new monster in the same place as the old monster without making the original one immobile. How do you do it?

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Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #5
You don't.

... Well, you could have the monster drop an item with a special class and check for the location of the item on monster death, I suppose, but that would be a scandalous waste of nodes - the number of spaces you could check would be severely limited.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #6
Making the monster immobile is the way to go, and the party won't notice it if it's a spellcaster and it has guards that go out to engage the party. And you could always use a teleportation burst to make it look like s/he teleported away.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
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Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 1823
Profile Homepage #7
I seem to remember Jeff saying that you could check the coordinates of monsters with the scripting system, which would make (4) almost a certainty.

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I trust I can rely on your vote
Posts: 530 | Registered: Sunday, September 1 2002 07:00
Shaper
Member # 73
Profile #8
That item-dropping thing might work, were it not for the fact that 100% != 100% in BoE.
I really hope it's possible in BoA, otherwise I wasted my time with those nifty plant monster graphics I made.

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My Myspace, with some of my audial and visual art
The Lyceum - The Headquarters of the Blades designing community
The Louvre - The Blades of Avernum graphics database
Alexandria - The Blades of Exile Scenario database
BoE Webring - Self explanatory
Polaris - Free porn here
Odd Todd - Fun for the unemployed (and everyone else too)
They Might Be Giants - Four websites for one of the greatest bands in existance
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Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Guardian
Member # 2080
Profile #9
Both NPCs controled by the computer and monsters replacing slain monsters in the same spot are too friggin hard to do. Hence why I want it to be easy, so I can pull a Final Fantasy(multiple form bosses) And it would help with my scenario idea, since it was too hard if not impossible for me to attempt in BoE.

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"These sunglasses sure make it difficult to see in the dark, but I refuse to take them off because I'm an American and Americans always wear sunglasses."
Posts: 1918 | Registered: Sunday, October 13 2002 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 1823
Profile Homepage #10
How do you know that it will be 'too friggin hard' if the game isn't even out yet. From what I guess from what Jeff has said about scripts and from existing geneforge scripts I would think it would be quite easy. The code will probably be something like (although paraphrased as I don't know for sure)

onMonsterDeath
let x=monsterxcoord
let y=monsterycoord
place monster (x,y)

Or at least something like that.

And NPCs controlled by the computer would be even easier, just a case of checking for a special item/sdf, then placing a friendly monster.

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Riot Shields
Voodoo Economics
It's just business
Cattle prods
And the IMF

I trust I can rely on your vote
Posts: 530 | Registered: Sunday, September 1 2002 07:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #11
And there were plenty of multi-form bosses in BoE, and it was done without much trouble. Try something before you say it's too hard.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
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Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Guardian
Member # 2080
Profile #12
I have actually. I'd like to point out that it was in fact hard and I could not get the monster to replace the slain monster in the same spot. If you actually know how to do that, go right ahead and tell me.

NPCs are also doable, but in BoA it would have to be like Geneforge, since those stupid NPCs of BoE require wasting perfectly good special items, which I use to make up for my inability to do Stuff Done Flags.

NPCs & Monster replacing a fallen monster would be used to do the plan I have for combining them. Thus I would need both to do what I was thinking of doing...(Insert a whole lotta cryptic stuff here)

Although I would prefer to be able to control the NPCs, but that ain't gonna happen.
Posts: 1918 | Registered: Sunday, October 13 2002 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 1823
Profile Homepage #13
Of course its too hard to replace monster bosses in Blades of Exile, because it isn't possible (or at least so virtually impossible, checking for item on space, that it might as well be). You can't have tried it in BoA, because that isn't out yet, so you don't know that it will be hard (and I'd bet that it'd be quite easy if we havn't been lied to).

As to NPCs, the same applies. And I would also like to mention that it would be a very very bad idea to try and use special items instead of stuff done flags. For a start, they're very limited, and secondly they're visible - you don't want a player looking in their special items and seeing 'One time special in orgre fort 1 triggered' as one of their items.

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Riot Shields
Voodoo Economics
It's just business
Cattle prods
And the IMF

I trust I can rely on your vote
Posts: 530 | Registered: Sunday, September 1 2002 07:00
Guardian
Member # 2080
Profile #14
2 things.

1rst, you can delete the special item name.

2nd, there should be far more special items, but there aren't so I do the best I can with what I have.

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Posts: 1918 | Registered: Sunday, October 13 2002 07:00
Senile Reptile
Member # 547
Profile #15
Take the time to learn Stuff Done Flags. They were insanely complicated to almost everybody when the editor just came out. Practice using SDF's in little test scenarios just to get a feel for them.

In my opinion, the hardest part of SDF's is keeping track of them, as forgetting to archive a single one can mean disaster for your scenario and those who play it.

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Polaris
Posts: 1614 | Registered: Wednesday, January 23 2002 08:00
Guardian
Member # 2080
Profile #16
[Insert 5 hours of whinning(about how hard Stuff Done Flags are, and how hard it is to figure them out) here]

I could go on and on about how hard those things are, but the insert I made should cover that for me. I'm just going to stick to what I can do, since that's much easier. Which reminds me, I need to finish my simple scenario and release it to the masses.

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"These sunglasses sure make it difficult to see in the dark, but I refuse to take them off because I'm an American and Americans always wear sunglasses."
Posts: 1918 | Registered: Sunday, October 13 2002 07:00
Warrior
Member # 347
Profile #17
The SDF were not complicated in and of themselves, they simply were implimented in a very difficult way. Notepad people, notepad. Always take notes when doing Stuff Done Flags, don't forget to write down a single one! Fortunatly in BoA things'll be a bit easier.

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Posts: 174 | Registered: Wednesday, December 5 2001 08:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #18
SDFs wouldn't have been so bad if I didn't keep forgetting which number went up to 10 and which went up to 300.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #19
A goes up to 300, B goes up to 10.

I don't see what's so hard about them. A,B is one SDF. Each can have a numeral value. They start at 0. You can set and check the value.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
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Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Babelicious
Member # 39
Profile Homepage #20
quote:
Originally posted by LupusFlame:
.... Fortunatly in BoA things'll be a bit easier.
Last time I checked, Stuff Done Flags were present in Geneforge/Blades of Avernum scripting in full force.

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Pygmalion | Desperance | Djur
Posts: 1074 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Warrior
Member # 334
Profile #21
If you know anything about computer programming, Stuff Done Flags are variables. They are used as a notation to track values. Think of it as a big table- with 300 rows numbered 0-299 and 10 columns numbered 0-9. A Stuff Done Flag's numbers mean this: go to the propper row, then move down to the proper column. Thus 110,5 is row 110, column 5.

You can keep track of them in a table, or in a Notepad or SimpleText file, noting them by row and column with a desctiption of when it was used and what value it is tracking. Example:

110,5 - player received gold for killing the goblin. 0 initially, set to 1 in conversation with Myra (personality 5 ) in Doram (Town 2)

There you go, Stuff Done Flags in a nutshell. The hardest part is getting in the habbit of writing it dwn.

The important thing is that you have 3000 variables that can be used to track events in your scenario.

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Posts: 74 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #22
quote:
Originally posted by M. Boeh:
quote:
Originally posted by LupusFlame:
.... Fortunatly in BoA things'll be a bit easier.
Last time I checked, Stuff Done Flags were present in Geneforge/Blades of Avernum scripting in full force.

But Jeff has said that we'll get honest-to-goodness variables in BoA.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
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Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
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Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Guardian
Member # 2080
Profile #23
1rst of all not all of us are computer programmers or really smart. You clearly have me confused with the person I could have been. 2 very different people. Now quit pretending that just cause you can do it, us average people can to.

2nd. I still don't get it. That explanation makes no sense.

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"These sunglasses sure make it difficult to see in the dark, but I refuse to take them off because I'm an American and Americans always wear sunglasses."
Posts: 1918 | Registered: Sunday, October 13 2002 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 169
Profile #24
Okay, try this explanation:

You have a table of values as follows:
__0_1_2_3_4_5_6_7_8_9
0|X|X|X|X|X|X|X|X|X|X
1|X|X|X|X|X|X|X|X|X|X
2|X|X|X|X|X|X|X|X|X|X
.
.
.

SDF 0,0 is the value represented by the X in the appropriate space. It is initially zero. You can modify it using the increment SDF, set SDF, and similar nodes.

Example:
__0_1_2_3_4_5_6_7_8_9
0|9|7|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0
1|3|4|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0
2|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0

SDF 0,0 = 9
SDF 1,0 = 3
SDF 0,1 = 7
SDF 1,1 = 4
All others are 0

Example of use:
Assign SDF 1,1 to track the party's progress on a particular quest (Assuming multi-part quest, segments occur in linear order - you can't complete part two until you complete part one).

SDF 1,1 = 0 initially
When the first part is completed, set SDF 1,1 to 1
When the party attempts to complete the second part, check whether SDF 1,1 = 1. If it does, then the second part can be completed. If not, the party must go back to the first part.

When the second part is completed, set SDF 1,1 to 2. Check that SDF 1,1 = 2 before the party attempts to collect the reward. After the reward is collected, set SDF 1,1 to 3. If the party attempts to collect the reward, and SDF 1,1 = 3, then prevent them from collecting the reward a second time.

This is essentially the same explanation you were already given, just with tables added for clarity.
Posts: 422 | Registered: Tuesday, October 16 2001 07:00

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