Hybrids Anonymous or How to Differentiate an Opaki from a Choirboy

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AuthorTopic: Hybrids Anonymous or How to Differentiate an Opaki from a Choirboy
Infiltrator
Member # 1886
Profile #25
Actually, I had thought that Ssisthiss (or whatever his name was) had been the descendant of the leader of a cult, and that his ancestor and his ancestor's followers had been forced out as a desperate attempt to save themselves. The other sliths, noting the cult's patron demon (either a haakai or one of Grah Hogh's leiutenants{sp}) had been forced to drive them out as the cult was too powerful to either wipe out or exile. The cultists had their own army of fanatics, so what the slith kingdoms did was make a fierce offensive campaign to push them back into a small group of caves that could then be sealed off magically from outside. After several weeks of combat, the cultist army was contained, and the leaders were beginning to flee into the upper caves. What the kingdoms hadn't counted on though, was the cult's response. Demons. Scores of demons were summoned, and sent out from the cultists' army into the unprepared forces blocking them off from the rest of the slith kingdom. Mages and priests both went down to help defeat the demons, but because of that, many of the non-combatants and hostages/sacrifices of the cult were taken into the upper caverns. Seeing a chance to cut the enemy forces in half, the kingdom magi and priests sealed off the caverns before many more were taken through. The remaining cultists, cut off from their leaders, magi, and hostages they had been using to prevent other kingdoms from attacking, were quickly slaughtered. Only 10% of the sliths trapped in the upper caverns were female, and they became nothing more than breeding stock. Eventually, inbreeding caused some of the sliths to be retarded (the stupid sliths from A2), but most managed to escape that fate, although they were more sickly and weaker than the ancestral sliths ('cause sliths would have ruled the caverns otherwise {sorry, I couldn't resist}).

The Slithzerikai kingdoms, now free from the demonic influences, returned to their peaceful co-existence with each other. Their thriving markets supply goods unseen by humans before. They use gems and jewels as currency. Magic is widely used by many and treated with about as much reverence as we would treat the average toaster. Things that would be unheard of in a human city are treated cavalierly by the sliths, who only notice these things if they are vandalized (magical lights that turn neon orange and make mating noises whenever females walk by are frowned upon) or stop working. Recently, the slithzerikai encountered another race that has made it's home in the deeps. Nephilim.

The nephilim's civilizations on the surface had already collapsed by the time the humans had rolled in, and their tribal societies were easy pickings for the Empire soldiers. Meanwhile, the nephilim that fled even deeper into the caverns have found the ancient slith kingdoms. The two races cautiously approached eachother, and eventually managed to come to terms with having to share. It wasn't all beer and skittles at first, but over the years, the races' societies have become intertwined, and they have found a way to handle any disputes between nephils and sliths peacefully. However, neither race understands the humans yet, so they watch, and wait, quietly preparing for the human offensive that the nephil have warned the sliths about.

[ Tuesday, April 08, 2003 16:37: Message edited by: Ragnarok Hellcaller ]

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Posts: 505 | Registered: Saturday, September 14 2002 07:00
This Side Towards Enemy
Member # 147
Profile #26
You're thinking of Sss-Thsss. I mentioned his grandfather, Sss-Thoss. The storyline is blank enough for either viewpoint to be possible.
Posts: 1000 | Registered: Thursday, October 11 2001 07:00
Shaper
Member # 496
Profile #27
Just a couple of points:

1) There's conflict between the races in Avernum because there isn't a great deal of room down there. By dumping all its dissidents there, the Empire was trying to 'pour a quart into a pint pot'. Some conflict arises as some of Avernum's inhabitants are wicked types--demon worshiop and that--but most is just typical Darwinian conflict for resources.

2) I only asked whether there was a nephil / rakshasi connection as nephils always end up getting blamed for rakshasi excesses, suggesting the latter are setting them up deliberately rather than it being pure human prejudice. The rakshasi keep cats, but not nephilim, suggesting their affection does not extend to all fellow felines....

(PS: On the subject of affection for felines, I think speculation on human / nephil hybrids is in poor taste IMAGE(eek00000.gif) )
Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 2669
Profile Homepage #28
A human/nephil hybrid might be in bad taste, but it certainly seems a valid topic. Seems like sex is THE driving force in most interpersonal relationships. I understand the desire to keep the Exile/Avernum worlds PG and PC, but surely this shouldn't cause much of a row.

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Posts: 647 | Registered: Wednesday, February 19 2003 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 87
Profile Homepage #29
what is the other half of the nephar? I remember asking this before and people saying, no Beeblebrox your an iideot, there is no other half, they are just different, and then other people said something else.

this was a while ago.

the only problem with this thread is that the usefull posts are longish and I really don't read those very often.

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Posts: 816 | Registered: Friday, October 5 2001 07:00
Triad Mage Banned Veteran
Member # 165
Profile Homepage #30
The Nephar are essentially a common genetic defect. They are larger, stronger, and more docile than Nephilim. They are also invariably sterile.

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desperance -- je me souviens
arena -- et je me souviens de vous
Posts: 2449 | Registered: Monday, October 15 2001 07:00
Shaper
Member # 496
Profile #31
Human eunuchs grow to enormous size too. A hormonal thing, apparently.
Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 2669
Profile Homepage #32
Just out of curiosity, where did you garner that fact from? Hopefully not experience.

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Posts: 647 | Registered: Wednesday, February 19 2003 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #33
No, I think that's a well-known fact that people pick up osmotically. I can't actually find it documented anywhere reliable, though. On the other hand, I do know that neutered cats often either grow much larger than they otherwise should or become grossly obese. I had a cat that did both.

?Alorael, who had a quote from one of the Avernum games explaining that nepharim come from two nephil parents and that the nepharim are larger and stronger than nephilim, sterile, and born for unknown reasons. It makes sense in an evolutionary sense, though, if nephilim lived in separated family units.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Shaper
Member # 496
Profile #34
Oh, you are quick, PBR. But no - apparently, it was the custom to castrate choirboys to preserve their high voices beyond (wht would have been) puberty. The Vatican choir had eunuchs in it until the 1920s, something that surprised and mildly shocked me (was their no limit to their parents' ambition?) and such individuals were renown for their great height. I'm sure there's an endocrinologist out there than can give you the full gen on this.

Is someone going to cast 'restore topic' now?
Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00
Triad Mage Banned Veteran
Member # 165
Profile Homepage #35
Testosterone plays a large role in the retardation of the growth of the long bones. Without testosterone playing a significant factor, I imagine they continue to grow until their growth hormones peter out.

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desperance -- je me souviens
arena -- et je me souviens de vous
Posts: 2449 | Registered: Monday, October 15 2001 07:00
Shaper
Member # 496
Profile #36
I saw this rather disturbing thing about a chimp called 'Cedric' or something, billed as a 'humanzee' (not Bush - that's another forum!) in the mid-1960s as some rather unpleassant person said he was a human / chimp hybrid from darkest Africa, etc. :rolleyes: He wasn't, but they did show a lion / tiger hybrid, a liger (imaginative, eh?), which was both infertile (unsurprisingly), but also of enormous size. They said this was hormonal too. I think this might be more relevant than the Vatican choir boys thing above, if we're thinking of of the nephar as hybrids rather than sterile as a result of unfortunate post-natal experiences...

Why am I still on about this? :confused: I don't mean to sound like I have a prurient interest i the subject. IMAGE(redface0.gif)
Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 65
Profile Homepage #37
quote:
I saw this rather disturbing thing about a chimp called 'Cedric' or something, billed as a 'humanzee' (not Bush - that's another forum!) in the mid-1960s as some rather unpleassant person said he was a human / chimp hybrid from darkest Africa, etc. :rolleyes: He wasn't, but they did show a lion / tiger hybrid, a liger (imaginative, eh?), which was both infertile (unsurprisingly), but also of enormous size. They said this was hormonal too.

Speaking about hybrids,not all are sterile. I just found out about a wolphin, (false killer whale father/dolphin mother) gave birth to a 3/4 dolphin offspring.
Also in India there was a Geep (sheep/goat) a couple of years ago and apparently it was extremly virile.

This proberly does not move the topic along but I just thought you would like to know.

PS I found this infomation out when I looking for infomation on hybrids for science.

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Posts: 650 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Lifecrafter
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Profile Homepage #38
The last castrated Vatican singer died in 1922. The practice was banned in 1868. This was the last Westerner castrated that wasn't a nut or criminal. China just had its last living eunuch die, he was to be the emperors, but had it done two months before the emperor step down. India still has some. There is one who is in public office.

There is a half horse half zebra in England, I think it is too young to tell if it can breed,

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I am not really here.
Posts: 956 | Registered: Wednesday, January 16 2002 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 2445
Profile #39
I rather think somebody should write an article, to be put up in the upper-right hand corner of SW with all the other diminutive frosty blue links, on "The Evolution and Evolving Roles of General Spiderweb Topics".

Examples could include:
Nephilim and Slith Culture Salvation Attempt to Castration and Interesting Hybrid Factoids

ANYWAY...

What's with The Slith Wars? How come there's so little information on them? And what do the sliths think of the Empire? And I was under the impression that tribes of nepharim lived together, implying that they weren't sterile or had somehow met up, but whatever.

[ Saturday, April 12, 2003 19:59: Message edited by: The Infinitely Prolonged ]

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Aces off.
Posts: 611 | Registered: Friday, January 3 2003 08:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #40
Nepharim, IIRC, are outcast at birth.

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Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #41
So why were there Nepharim in Nephil forts? Are they enslaved by the Nephilim? That Nephar chief seemed pretty rich and important for a slave.

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Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Warrior
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Profile Homepage #42
Back to the hybrid thing, What is the name of a mule with its parents the other way round, i cannot for the life of me remember, but i know it is called something different depending on which parent is a horse and which is a donkey, i know this is extremly irrelevant but it's been bugging me for years, cos i did know at one point in the distant past when i was about 10.

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Posts: 81 | Registered: Wednesday, February 12 2003 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 2669
Profile Homepage #43
It's a hinny. Sorry to be off-topic.

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Posts: 647 | Registered: Wednesday, February 19 2003 08:00
Warrior
Member # 2870
Profile #44
About the nepharim thing. I thought that they were like mules for the nephilim.
Also, it seems like sliths are more advanced than nephilim, becuase the only interaction I remember having with them is killing them in their forts (aside from the occasional merchant or two). I do not remember them having cities, but correct me if I am wrong. And the only nephilim strength is shooting arrows and picking locks.
Sliths, on the other hand, have their own cities. You also see them building New Formello in E3. You rarely talk with nephilim, but there are plenty of oppurtunites to talke with sliths. Sliths seem to be more settled. And they have magic.
A quibble: Ragnarok said "Magic is widely used by many [sliths] and treated with about as much reverence as we would treat the average toaster." IF you are refering to humans in Avernum/Exile, they would treat with a whole lot of reverence because they did not HAVE toasters. A-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!!!!!!!!

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Posts: 138 | Registered: Saturday, April 12 2003 07:00
Warrior
Member # 720
Profile #45
It should be pointed out, for accuracy's sake, that the Sliths in New Formello didn't want to be there. They were not suited for the work and it was too cold. Even after you get rid of the chitrach infestation, the captain there is still reluctant to get the proper supplies and the sliths resent it even more. SOo... Anyway, I thought taht that should be pointed out, since it was mentioned.

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-Daravon
Posts: 104 | Registered: Friday, March 8 2002 08:00
Warrior
Member # 2155
Profile #46
The Nephilim are a very sketchy topic to discuss. On the hand of game statistics they're pretty pathetic as NPCs. However, in story form, they, like any opposing force to you/humanity, are something to be generally feared.

In the history of Valorim, it goes to talk about (I forget where excatly) how they Empire found the entire continent "infested" with them, particularly the "mighty Ratbane Clan". Statistically speaking, a single town Guard would be able to whipe out an entire continent full of Nepharim Cheiftains, however the same text goes on to talk about how it took waves of Dervishes to decimate the clan and take the Footracer Province. This goes to suggest that at one time the Nephilim were a race to be feared. At one time. However, there isn't any race in the game, Vahnatai included, that wouldn't be reduced to the state of the Nephilim after facing centuries of all out war with the Empire.

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Posts: 168 | Registered: Saturday, October 26 2002 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
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The nepharim certainly aren't outcast. They may be separated somewhat, but they occupy the sames forts and areas as the regular nephilim. I would say that the two groups view themselves as different and stick mostly with their own kind by choice, not by any law.

And I think the vahnatai could bring down the Empire if they weren't halted by a band of racially mixed adventurers, but that's just me.

?Alorael, who could see the nepharim as a sort of Mamluk equivalent. Perhaps they are technically slaves, but they obviously wield enough power to have chiefs of their own. Besides, you'd think the nephilim would be glad to have bigger, tougher buddies to help them fight off the humans, although racism often makes very little sense.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Shake Before Using
Member # 75
Profile #48
Actually, and you should try it for yourself if you have Blades of Exile, a continent full of Nephilim (who are individually more powerful than humans on the townsperson level) could beat the hell out of anything LESS than waves of Empire Dervishes.

Most parties, on the other hand, can slaughter legions of Nephilim singlehandedly.
Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Warrior
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For simplicity's sake, they can't make several versions of each race showing different levels of strengths. Obviously, not EVRY townsperson is going to have, what, 4 hp? 6? There have been descriptions of NPCs that go along the lines of "you wouldnt want to get in a rumble with him/her" etc. I don't think that every nephilim is crushingly weak. I bet that there are nephilim that are stronger than a really strong slith. And so on and so forth. However, in the games, the nephil were practically the first thing you met up with to fight. You think that if you met them late in the game, that they would still have 15-50 hp or so? no way! The point is, that for game balance, the overall strength and weakness of a particular race has to be exaggerrated.

As for guards in a town, their strength is super exagerrated so that you don't DO anything like, ohh... steal or kill anyone. Without serious retribution, of course. So, realistically speaking, even if a nephil civilian is doomed to the wrath of a dervish, in 'real life' terms, that same dervish is dead if there are 4 or five of them. 4-5 townspeople could gang up on one person like that with similar results. (the reason that people DON'T, even under extreme opression, is due to individual fear. one, 2, or even 3 of those nephil are going to die or be mamed against a fully armed dervish).

However, if you only take into account the "statistics" of the game engine, then yes, one dervish could prolly take out an entire COUNTRY of the nephilim/nepharim. But, obviously that's not realistic.

[ Monday, April 14, 2003 02:06: Message edited by: Daravon ]

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-Daravon
Posts: 104 | Registered: Friday, March 8 2002 08:00

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