Harry Potter *WITH SPOILERS*

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AuthorTopic: Harry Potter *WITH SPOILERS*
Councilor
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Dikiyoba didn't like the epilogue and wishes that it was left to the imagination instead. Other than that, it was okay.

Edit: Typo.

[ Wednesday, July 25, 2007 20:18: Message edited by: Dikiyoba ]
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Law Bringer
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quote:
Originally written by Screen Name of...Wool Sweaters:

quote:
Originally written by jg.faust:

quote:
And don't forget to add Dobby to the list of things he lost lol
"lol" does not qualify as punctuation.

Plus, the sentence wasn't funny.

My point lol

It appears that "lol" at the end of a sentence is replacing punctuation when no suitable emoticon can be found to do the job lol

This has a weird resemblance to telegraph code. STOP = LOL, FULL STOP = ROFL.

[ Wednesday, July 25, 2007 21:50: Message edited by: jg.faust ]

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Well. It wasn't that bad, I think. I rather liked it, though the epilogue was a bit confusing to follow.

But all in all, mostly good.

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Warrior
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Throwing in my two cents here... while everyone else is griping about how the book ended (I'm in the party of it-wasn't-great-but-it's-done) did anyone else love how Neville turned out? Anyone?

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Shaper
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Yeah. Anyone else wonder what professions the rest of the characters were in at the end?

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Obviously professions tame enough that everyone lived happily ever after, at least for 19 years.
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Shock Trooper
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I certainly expected more from the epilogue. All she did was provide us with basic information on who hooked up and how many kids they had. I assumed that we'd get a bit of follow up on more of the characters. I also sort of believed that someone we knew would get the position of Headmaster. I don't mean to gripe, but we don't even know Harry's professor. I just hoped for some closure after 10 years of waiting. Meh.

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Law Bringer
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Meh. McGonagall's headmistress. Seriously, who else?

But I thought that Harry would get the DADA job. It was foreshadowed in HBP.

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McGonagall? After nineteen years? I though she was older than that. Could be, though.

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This should clear things up a bit.

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Spidweb:
quote:

I think that Rowling should have just let the other shoe drop and called the book Harry Potter and the Painfully Technical Argument About Wand Ownership.

That was how you wanted the final confrontation between Harry and Voldemort to go down? Really? Well, you're the billionaire.

- Jeff Vogel

Agreed. I find the plot from Avernum 4 easier to swallow than Rowling's tripe, and that's saying something.

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quote:
Originally written by Suspicious Vlish:

Spidweb:
quote:

I think that Rowling should have just let the other shoe drop and called the book Harry Potter and the Painfully Technical Argument About Wand Ownership.

That was how you wanted the final confrontation between Harry and Voldemort to go down? Really? Well, you're the billionaire.

- Jeff Vogel

Agreed. I find the plot from Avernum 4 easier to swallow than Rowling's tripe, and that's saying something.

Oooh. Burned. :P

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This might help explain somethings. :)

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Law Bringer
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Yes, because clearly a self-styled Dark Lord who talks to snakes and kills babies must be a reference to Jesus. How could I have missed all the parallels? :)

Edit: Frankly, if anything the seventh book had a bit too much Christian allegory. What the - the protagonist sacrifices himself and returns from death?

Yes, I know. I Have Been Trolled.

[ Saturday, July 28, 2007 12:48: Message edited by: jg.faust ]

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I rather expected a Christian undertone to the final book. I even made the following image three days before it's release. It was meant as a joke, not in any way a mockery of Christianity and only slightly a mockery of the books, but still: Christians and die hard Harry Potter fans should not click here.

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Shaper
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The seventh book felt vaguely Lord of the Ringish to me, oddly. The wandering in the wilderness, the locket affecting its bearer negatively, Ron leaving the trio only to return later (like Sam leaving Frodo, which only occurred in the movie) and other passages and moments really reminded me of Tolkien quite a few times. I wonder if JK is a fan.

Has anyone noticed what a brat Harry is for at least the last half of the series? He's a fickle and irritable friend at best, romantically inept and detached, and sadly lacking in faith and trust for the benevolent Dumbledore...too quick to believe the worst about him. Why he's so beloved is a bit beyond me, because he's such a moody, untrusting soul, which ironically is more true to his miserable upbringing than a lot of fiction would be with a heroic character in his position. The thing is, he wasn't very endearing by the end to me. He's too flawed a hero, and despite his endless run of incredible luck, rather than skill, he really doesn't fit the bill for a hero too well.

I expected something — more — from the final confrontation, something more chilling like the book five graveyard rather than a big battle where the castle is blasted to bits like the siege of Minas Tirith, complete with giants and spiders.

Criticisms aside, it was about as good a book as I hoped, but the forest was too drawn out and tedious, as well as more being shacked up in hiding in houses, which is so boring, and there was too much exposition late in the game, like Voldemort would stand there and listen to Harry's rationalization for why he is going to win instead of just killing him. It's the cheesy "talking villain" behavior you see in James Bond movies and so forth, but in real life it doesn't happen. The explanations were too convoluted, and it felt like Rowling was just contriving one thing after another on the spot to fit her intentions of the moment...which is probably how all the books have been written.

-S-

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quote:
Originally written by Synergy:


Has anyone noticed what a brat Harry is for at least the last half of the series? He's a fickle and irritable friend at best, romantically inept and detached, and sadly lacking in faith and trust for the benevolent Dumbledore...too quick to believe the worst about him. Why he's so beloved is a bit beyond me, because he's such a moody, untrusting soul, which ironically is more true to his miserable upbringing than a lot of fiction would be with a heroic character in his position. The thing is, he wasn't very endearing by the end to me. He's too flawed a hero, and despite his endless run of incredible luck, rather than skill, he really doesn't fit the bill for a hero too well.

He's a teenaged boy under a lot of stress. Seriously, did you expect a boy who was brought up with very little social interaction to just be ready to jump into stable relationships? I don't think he would be able to do that.

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Gah...buggy board.

[ Saturday, July 28, 2007 21:27: Message edited by: Synergy ]

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How embarrassing...third time's the charm.

[ Saturday, July 28, 2007 21:28: Message edited by: Synergy ]

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Right. So here's my point. Fiction often has its heros being a bit bigger than real life and a bit better than we really are in order to inspire us to being better ourselves...toward the ideal. Harry is so darned normal and failing, that he doesn't live up to the epic scale of being a hero the books' popularity would seem to make him. He wasn't even a flawed tragic hero of the Greek sort...he's just so normal.

I'd have liked him to be a bit more ultimately, if he was this amazing wizard a cut above all others. The books set him up to be a bigger than life hero, a savior for his kind, but in the long run, it was sheer dumb luck and the perpetual assistance of others that enabled him to survive and defeat evil. He was almost wholly hapless and useless in himself. Despite himself and how faithless, fickle and failing he frequently was, he won out, ultimately, but I don't see why he deserved to do so. It feels like a hollow, somewhat non-sensical victory on this level. I don't really believe in him.

These are mighty weird books, the more I think about them.

-S-

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I think making Harry an oversung hero is the point of the books (and it's ironic how well they succeeded at that). And personally, I find Voldemort more disappointing than Harry. For all that we learn about his past, he's basically just an overpowered, short-sighted caricature of evil. Where is his supposed cunning and charm? How did he manage to take over practically everywhere so quickly? I dunno, maybe Harry wouldn't have had to rely on dumb luck and other people's sacrifices so much if Voldemort wasn't the ultimate evil wizard.

Dikiyoba will admit to liking less-than-ideal heros more than ideal ones, though. It would be more inspiring to watch a person mortally afraid of heights climb a ladder than Spider-Man climb to the top of a skyscraper, because the ladder-climber is challenging themselves while Spider-Man isn't risking anything at all.
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Shaper
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quote:
Originally written by Dikiyoba:

Dikiyoba will admit to liking less-than-ideal heros more than ideal ones, though.
I agree. I like characters who are real, flaws and all, yet have some quality I can really admire. The thing about Harry is that he possesses no one quality I could really admire. He wasn't a very good-natured or optimistic soul, and he seemed to have shockingly little faith in Dumbledore, Ron, and Hermione, after all they do for him. I found myself getting repeatedly irritated at him for being such a twit.

Good call on Voldemort. I expected something more from him by the end too. It seemed to all end with more of a whimper than a bang.

I enjoyed the book, and it should make an exciting movie once they prune all the boring camping scenes back, but it will not be reread eight times like my Tolkien set has been. I'll read them all a second time, and that, I expect, will be that. I think we've lowered the bar for what great fiction is these days, but maybe that just speaks to how illiterate we've been becoming since the invention of electronic entertainment.

I also had a sense that JK may have been influenced by the last book in what she was writing by thinking about how it might look on the big screen. That felt surreal to ponder while reading, because I know she must have had it in mind.

-S-

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Synergy:
quote:

. He's too flawed a hero, and despite his endless run of incredible luck, rather than skill, he really doesn't fit the bill for a hero too well.

That's what I couldn't stand about the series.

I have no problem with Harry being flawed. But what really pissed me off was that Harry usually accomplished something due to a mixture of luck and the intervention of his buddies. Oh, and the fact that he 'happened' to be born with supreme Wizarding skills, despite the fact that he puts in little effort. Sort of reminds me of Anakin Skywalker.

Harry himself is pretty lame.

"Oh, Potion Making is too hard, so I'll cheat."

"Oh, learning mind defense techniques is too hard, so I'll piss off."

Ever Book after Number 3 sucked big time.

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Agreed, Synergy -- Harry Potter was billed as an Aragorn, but it was clear from the beginning that he was really just going to be a Frodo. And not much of a Frodo at that...

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Maybe I'm just a hopeless Potter-head, unable to see flaws which others find so glaringly obvious, but I love Harry's character. I think it's because so much of myself in him. He's a loose cannon, he's awkward around girls, he's not incredibly talented, he's easily distracted. That's basically me in a nutshell. And yet I hope that I could cope half as well as he does in the situations in which he is placed. Let's face it: growing up sans parents in the house of a psychologically abusive aunt and uncle does not lend itself to social genius. The fact that he is willing to risk his life time after time for a world that is largely unappreciative of him is extremely heroic to me.

I have to admit it's funny to see people complaining that Harry is to flawed, because I've heard so many others complain that he is too perfect. I guess it's a matter of taste.

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