Harry Potter *WITH SPOILERS*

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AuthorTopic: Harry Potter *WITH SPOILERS*
By Committee
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I'm starting this thread because the last Harry Potter thread, started prior to release of the book, actually contained some not entirely irrelevant spoilers, which can effect one's read of the book. As such, I would suggest that anyone wanting to discuss outcomes within the story, or particular aspects of how Rowling crafted book or the entire series in light of this last book do so here (this means you, Aran, with your references to who survives).

Cheers!
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Law Bringer
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If the first thread contains spoilers, wouldn't the proper response be to start a new thread titled "WITHOUT spoilers"? :P

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Only perhaps if the original thread's title adjusted to indicate that there were spoilers. Seriously, dude, I didn't appreciate the "Fred is the only Weasley to die" remark! :(
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Raven v. Writing Desk
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Did anybody else read that sentence and think "There's a typo in that name, and why is Drew talking about Angel? Oh, wait."

I love not participating in the Potter meme.

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The freaking owl died. Why did she have to kill the owl?

I finished the book. The 7th movie should be incredible. Haha.
Posts: 455 | Registered: Tuesday, May 17 2005 07:00
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quote:
Originally written by Drew:

Only perhaps if the original thread's title adjusted to indicate that there were spoilers. Seriously, dude, I didn't appreciate the "Fred is the only Weasley to die" remark! :(
That's why I waited until after having read the book to read any thread with "harry potter" in the title. Luckily I managed to avoid having any part of the book spoiled for me, unless you count reading well-reasoned predictions (e.g. Red Hen). But even if you know Snape and Dumbledore planned the murder together, you don't know until you read it...

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Posts: 508 | Registered: Thursday, May 29 2003 07:00
Shaper
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Oddly enough, I read that in Today's Active Topics as 'Fred is the only Weasley not to die'. Which, considering I hadn't read through it yet, was a little disheartening. I have now, though.

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AmnesiaWitch HuntWhere the Rivers MeetFoul Hordes
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Hedwig was the only death that really bothered me.

Seriously, this book was so bloody, little kids will have nightmare. But I liked it.

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Posts: 1169 | Registered: Monday, September 23 2002 07:00
Shaper
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Yeah, her death was so inconsequential. It even practically said so in the book.

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AmnesiaWitch HuntWhere the Rivers MeetFoul Hordes
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I suppose Rowling was still trying to strip Harry of everything from his former life, making it more believable that he would, in the end, go quietly. Most of the things he had attachments to (the big exception being Ginny) no longer existed by the time he had to make the choice.

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Friday, February 25 2005 08:00
Shaper
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I was bummed when Lupin and Tonks died - Tonks was far too good a character to waste, and Rowling needs shooting for it. And Dobby!! I was far too bothered about him going, but yeah - Fred, by the time he died, hadn't been a major character for a while, not like he had in the first three(?) books, and I just found myself thinking, "Oh", and not caring.

I dunno. It made me feel like books 3 and 4, which is good, but the ending was just... I'm undecided.

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Posts: 2864 | Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00
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quote:
Originally written by Actaeon:

I suppose Rowling was still trying to strip Harry of everything from his former life, making it more believable that he would, in the end, go quietly. Most of the things he had attachments to (the big exception being Ginny) no longer existed by the time he had to make the choice.
I'd have to disagree with your assessment
Things Harry Lost:
Firebolt
Hedwig
Lupin
Fred, Dumbledore, Sirius
Things Harry Still Had:
Ron
Hermione
Ginny
Other Weasleys, remaining Order, DA, etc.

I don't think Rowling handled the deaths well at all, though -- I actually didn't think Hedwig got killed when she does, and had to re-read that section several times before I was sure (I actually thought she died when Harry blew up the sidecar for a while and was confused about it for a while). None of the deaths made me cry on my first reading, although I'm going through it again and taking it more slowly, so we'll see.
My main irritation with the book was the gigantic amount of time spent hiding in the forests -- that seemed worthless to me. Either that should've been gotten rid of or else Harry and Hermione should have actually learned stuff in Godric's Hollow, moving some of dead-Dumbledore's exposition from the end of the book to the middle, etc.

I've also fallen to wondering how to present these books to my children when I'm older -- do I give them one book each year starting when they're 9 or 10? Do I give them all the books at once when they're 13 or so? Do I (shudder) give them all the books as soon as their friends start reading them? Because really, I don't want a 9 year-old reading any of the last three -- heck, there are a few parts in Azkaban I wouldn't like them to read without some conversation taking place. And even if I wasn't worried about the violence, the romantic subplots are pretty important and don't make sense until you're old enough...

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Posts: 322 | Registered: Monday, April 12 2004 07:00
Law Bringer
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quote:
Originally written by Actaeon:

I suppose Rowling was still trying to strip Harry of everything from his former life, making it more believable that he would, in the end, go quietly. Most of the things he had attachments to (the big exception being Ginny) no longer existed by the time he had to make the choice.
To the contrary... as far as persons go, she didn't kill anyone who would have made Harry lose the will to live. If anything, the death of Lupin and Tonks put a greater burden on him through being the godfather of their child (although he didn't know they were dead when he went).

Frankly, I would have been more surprised if he *hadn't* returned. Far too many loose ends.

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Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Law Bringer
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I was expecting Lupid as soon as Wormtail died. I mean, at that point it was pretty obvious that she was going to kill off all 4 of them. Tonks was a bit of a surprise. I wish we could have seen how the 2 of them died. Hedwig was a complete surprise. Moody was a shame. He was just plain badass. Fred didn't really surprise me. I knew one of the Weasleys had to bite it. If I had actually liked Dobby, I might have missed him, but meh. My biggest annoyance was that she didn't really explain why Harry didn't die. That seemed incredibly contrived.

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Posts: 1556 | Registered: Sunday, November 20 2005 08:00
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Did it bug anyone else that Harry's final defeat of Voldemort hinged on an artifact that wasn't even mentioned until halfway through the final book? I know Harry's been dependent on luck every step of the way, but the fact that disarming Malfoy saved his life just gets under my skin.

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Friday, February 25 2005 08:00
Law Bringer
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quote:
Originally written by Actaeon:

Did it bug anyone else that Harry's final defeat of Voldemort hinged on an artifact that wasn't even mentioned until halfway through the final book? I know Harry's been dependent on luck every step of the way, but the fact that disarming Malfoy saved his life just gets under my skin.
Um, no. There were several problems with the plot, but if anything I appreciated the realism of avoiding the last battle being decided by a McGuffin introduced in the first book...

After the greatest plot twist was Harry's death and return, cleaning up Voldy was more of a resolution than a climax.

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quote:
Originally written by Tyranicus:

I was expecting Lupid as soon as Wormtail died. I mean, at that point it was pretty obvious that she was going to kill off all 4 of them. Tonks was a bit of a surprise. I wish we could have seen how the 2 of them died. Hedwig was a complete surprise. Moody was a shame. He was just plain badass. Fred didn't really surprise me. I knew one of the Weasleys had to bite it. If I had actually liked Dobby, I might have missed him, but meh. My biggest annoyance was that she didn't really explain why Harry didn't die. That seemed incredibly contrived.
I wasn't that surprised about Tonks. It is far easier to kill off a couple than break it up, as far as closure goes...

JKR was also pretty frugal in her choice of the Weasley who died. She chose the one with the mirrored backup. :P Though if I'd had to guess, I would have predicted Charly (hardly any screen time) or Percy (because he was a dolt until very late in the book).

She did explain why Harry didn't die. However, she explained it in a page-long dialogue in the middle of the most suspenseful part of the book, where it's hard to keep focused:

Firstly and most importantly, Potter was the master of the Elder Wand, and as she stated later, the wand "refused to kill him" (paraphrased).

Secondly, Voldemort hit his own horcrux in the spell. Perhaps the AK curse is not designed for killing more than one person at once? We have never seen it do so.

Leaving what she explained and entering my guesswork: I suspect the wand saw HP and LV's last horcrux as two targets, one of whom was its true master. Accordingly, it concentrated its power on the other one, which left HP on the edge of death, but able to return.

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I was just happy that the "spoiler" I read about Ron dying turned out to be false :)

And don't forget to add Dobby to the list of things he lost lol
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Law Bringer
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quote:
And don't forget to add Dobby to the list of things he lost lol
"lol" does not qualify as punctuation.

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Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. | I have a love of woodwind instruments.
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I actually teared up when Dobby died - sure, he was annoying, but I don't think there was a more innocent, loyal character in the story. He was in no way hesitant to sacrifice himself, and I guess that touched me.

As for the Harry-Voldemort thing, I am a bit confused by the whole "he chose your blood for his reincarnation which created yet another bond" thing. How the heck did that effect things? What I think I understand is that (a) Harry's head was a horcrux, (b) it was unintentionally made, and resulted in Voldemort's soul being separated into 8 portions instead of the 7 he had intended, which presumably would have very negative consequences, and (c) when Voldemort AK'ed Harry in the woods and Harry went to King's Cross, Harry could have chosen to go ahead and die, and that would have taken Voldemort with him.

Maybe I'm wrong on (c) though.
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Shaper
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quote:
Originally written by Drew:

I am a bit confused by the whole "he chose your blood for his reincarnation which created yet another bond" thing. How the heck did that effect things?
The protection in Harry's blood was transfered to Voldemort, thus creating a makeshift Horcrux for Harry.

quote:
(c) when Voldemort AK'ed Harry in the woods and Harry went to King's Cross, Harry could have chosen to go ahead and die, and that would have taken Voldemort with him.
Actually, Voldemort would have survived.

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AmnesiaWitch HuntWhere the Rivers MeetFoul Hordes
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I think that Rowling should have just let the other shoe drop and called the book Harry Potter and the Painfully Technical Argument About Wand Ownership.

That was how you wanted the final confrontation between Harry and Voldemort to go down? Really? Well, you're the billionaire.

- Jeff Vogel

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That was a bit silly, but I was more annoyed that Harry's death was promised but not delivered.

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Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
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quote:
Originally written by Actaeon:

Did it bug anyone else that Harry's final defeat of Voldemort hinged on an artifact that wasn't even mentioned until halfway through the final book? I know Harry's been dependent on luck every step of the way, but the fact that disarming Malfoy saved his life just gets under my skin.
quote:
Originally written by Spidweb:

I think that Rowling should have just let the other shoe drop and called the book Harry Potter and the Painfully Technical Argument About Wand Ownership.

That was how you wanted the final confrontation between Harry and Voldemort to go down? Really? Well, you're the billionaire.

- Jeff Vogel

I'm going to transfer my statement over to the way Jeff phrased it. Perhaps Aran will continue to disagree, but at least my point of view will be a bit clearer.

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Posts: 344 | Registered: Friday, February 25 2005 08:00
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quote:
Originally written by jg.faust:

quote:
And don't forget to add Dobby to the list of things he lost lol
"lol" does not qualify as punctuation.

Plus, the sentence wasn't funny.

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