Europa, God, and you, or Where it all fits.
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Wednesday, July 11 2007 10:11
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Some definitions: 1. Atheist - The opposite of theist, which wiki calls the encompassing belief in any divinity. Therefore, for the purposes of this poll, an atheist does not believe in any divinity. 2. Agnostic - An agnostic believes that it is not possible to have absolute or certain knowledge of God or gods[wiki], although this can be strictly at the individual level and doesn't extend universally. 3. Theist - A believer in a deity or multiple deities. 4. Deist - An individual that holds that a deity(ies) exists and it's governed by reason. You don't believe in supernatural events or acts of God. 5. Animist - One that holds the belief that each tangible object contains a spirit, that everything is alive, or that each living body has a soul. As an offshoot of the Europa thread, and Lenar's offshoot, this is an inquiry into the spiritual nature of the SW community. And most certainly it has been done before. Just not in 2007! Edit - Dang it! Re: question 2, if you wanted to answer "This question doesn't apply," please choose "No." The trained monkey which created this poll has been severely punished for the lack of proper answers. [ Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:14: Message edited by: Jumpin' Sarcasmon ] Poll Information This poll contains 2 question(s). 8 user(s) have voted. You may not view the results of this poll without voting. function launch_voter () { launch_window("http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=poll;d=vote;pollid=OKceydAtaTzh"); return true; } // end launch_voter function launch_viewer () { launch_window("http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=poll;d=view;pollid=OKceydAtaTzh"); return true; } // end launch_viewer function launch_window (url) { preview = window.open( url, "preview", "width=550,height=300,toolbar=no,location=no,directories=no,status,menubar=no,scrollbars,resizable,copyhistory=no" ); window.preview.focus(); return preview; } // end launch_window   -------------------- WWtNSD? Synergy - "I don't get it." Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 5545
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written Wednesday, July 11 2007 10:18
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I consider myself a Pagan, with elements of Bokononism. This may seem like an attempt to mock the concept of theism, rather than expressing my true beliefs, but honestly, the combination captures my outlook as well as can be expected without an extremely long rant. -------------------- Plaudite, amici, comedia finita est. Posts: 344 | Registered: Friday, February 25 2005 08:00 |
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By Committee
Member # 4233
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written Wednesday, July 11 2007 10:37
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I had thought that an atheist is a person who believes there is no god as opposed to not believing in a god, but that may merely be a distinction between "hard" and "soft" atheism that I've heard tell about. I merely don't know whether god(s) exist or not, and I don't think that anyone else really can either. I think that makes me an agnostic. I do, however, hope in my heart that there is a benevolent god out there who will love us and take care of us all when we die, because that would be pretty cool. Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Wednesday, July 11 2007 12:20
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I used to call myself agnostic, but then I realized that this was mostly inoffensive fence-straddling and a variation on Pascal's Wager ("just in case there is a god, I'll say I'm not sure"). So now I'm just plain atheist. I don't think there is any personifiable entity that is responsible for creating the universe, Earth, humanity or anything else; I don't think that any of our moral values were developed by anyone other than our own wise thinkers. I do think civilization as a whole may show some characteristics sometimes attributed to a deity - self-organization, immortality, omnipresence - and will do so increasingly as we grow in population and infrastructure. That might make me a bit of a humanist. --- I find it hard to imagine a "real" afterlife. Perhaps the best we can hope for during our lifetime is to make patterns in history that we will be remembered for with fondness. [ Wednesday, July 11, 2007 12:24: Message edited by: jg.faust ] -------------------- Encyclopaedia • Archives • Members • RSS [Topic / Forum] • Blog • Polaris • NaNoWriMo Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. | I have a love of woodwind instruments. "That damn meddling eskimo." --WKS about Alorael Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6489
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written Wednesday, July 11 2007 12:47
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I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven and earth. I believe in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord who was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended to the dead. On the third day, he rose again, entered into Heaven, is seated at the right hand of the Father, and will come again to judge the living and the dead I believe in the Holy Spirit, he holy catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting Amen. -------------------- "You're drinking liquor because you're thirsty? How nasty is your freaking water?" —Lazarus Spiderweb Chat Room Avernum RP • Summaries • OoC • Roster Shadow Vale - My site, home of the Spiderweb Chat Database, BoA Scenario Database, & the A1 Quest List, among other things. Posts: 1556 | Registered: Sunday, November 20 2005 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 6666
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written Wednesday, July 11 2007 13:03
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I am an atheist, plain and simple. I do not believe in the existence of anything supernatural, much less powerful deities who have an interest in the workings of humanity. Anything happening in this world and perceived as supernatural is simply something that we cannot understand – yet. My relationship with theists is a tolerant one. I will not bother them as long as they leave me to my own devices. Thankfully, where I live this peaceful coexistence is possible since religion is not something we flaunt openly. Over eighty percent of Finns belong to the Lutheran church; in spite of this fact I have only met one person of my age who is openly theist. All of my friends either do not discuss the matter or are openly atheist. Even though I have nothing against theists per se, I must confess to thinking less of anyone who speaks of a deity in a serious tone. I see religion, especially a personally felt spiritual connection to a deity, as a sort of emotional crutch. Because the world has demonstrated itself to the individual in question as a hostile or uncontrollable place, (s)he needs to retort to an external force of for balance. Because seeing the world as as chaotic and unpredictable as it is to them would be too much, theists need to believe in a grand design behind things. The most difficult memory I have concerning religion is when I went to confirmation camp (a common event in any Finnish teenager’s life) I was basically forced to lie about believing in God. *This trip down memory lane spurred by Tyran’s recitation above.* [ Wednesday, July 11, 2007 13:10: Message edited by: Redstart ] Posts: 353 | Registered: Monday, January 9 2006 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Wednesday, July 11 2007 13:05
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I'm very happy to see agnosticism finally used in the unknowable sense rather than the more common but less correct uncertain sense. —Alorael, who is an agnostic deist. He does not believe in any evidence for the existence of God (yes, with a capital G), but he does believe in God. He also believes everyone is generally better off not believing in God, or at least not believing in religion. Although he's still (barely) religious. Hm. He may need to get his theological priorities straight. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Wednesday, July 11 2007 14:50
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It pleases me to have given you joy. This poll actually took less time to create than the last one, and seems a little more straightforward. I'm curious about Tyran's remarks, as the poll was strictly philosophical in nature. -------------------- WWtNSD? Synergy - "I don't get it." Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6489
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written Wednesday, July 11 2007 15:56
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Meh. It seemed appropriate. -------------------- "You're drinking liquor because you're thirsty? How nasty is your freaking water?" —Lazarus Spiderweb Chat Room Avernum RP • Summaries • OoC • Roster Shadow Vale - My site, home of the Spiderweb Chat Database, BoA Scenario Database, & the A1 Quest List, among other things. Posts: 1556 | Registered: Sunday, November 20 2005 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2820
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written Wednesday, July 11 2007 16:06
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I identify myself as an agnostic deist, much in the same way as Alorael does. I hope and wish for the existence of a benevolent God, but I try not to let that hope influence my decisions in life. I would rather depend on reason than on a God whose existence I am not certain of. However, to some extent I do believe in the existence of "ghosts" or "spirits", i.e., I believe that sometimes something of the mind perseveres after the death of the body. [ Wednesday, July 11, 2007 16:06: Message edited by: Garrison ] -------------------- Thuryl: I mean, most of us don't go around consuming our own bodily fluids, no matter how delicious they are. ==== Alorael: War and violence would end if we all had each other's babies! ==== Drakefyre: Those are hideous mangos. Posts: 1415 | Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 5545
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written Wednesday, July 11 2007 16:53
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Now that's interesting: one of the things that I find most odd about the Christian faith is the concept of an eternal soul. I certainly have a sense of an all encompassing, cosmic "soul" (manifested in a certain beautiful harmony that could never be adequately described), but the idea that an individual personality should outlive the organism to which it belongs seems very outlandish. I'm happy enough being part of the Carbon cycle, if I can just manage to die in a manner that keeps my body from being recovered. [ Wednesday, July 11, 2007 16:54: Message edited by: Actaeon ] -------------------- Plaudite, amici, comedia finita est. Posts: 344 | Registered: Friday, February 25 2005 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Wednesday, July 11 2007 16:57
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I find myself in the curious position of having spent most of my life being some kind of Christian and now being forced to admit I have no certain idea what the specific spiritual reality of being is. That doesn't mean I don't have many ideas or inklings. I have experienced enough to convince me of a number of things: a Mind and Heart behind the existence of all things, and one that has a purposefulness in being. This is God to me, but I have no idea what exactly or where this God is. Well, that's not quite the case. I see the divine in my fellow human being and that is simply the only place I have ever encountered it. I think human beings have become the vehicle to begin to reach out and strive to touch the face of God and there is a reason we are growing up/evolving in this capacity. The religions of the past reflect our immature and clumsy efforts to appropriate the God we have come to sense. But to me the bottom line is no one knows yet or really is likely capable of knowing yet, but we will get there when we are meant to get there and in the meantime there is really nothing to be afraid of. I approach my existence with wonder, rather than the trepidation and frustration that my former existence as a religious person gave me. It is extremely difficult and painful to go from decades of thinking you know how God and the universe is, and somehow coming to shed that vain certainty. I think surviving an existential crisis in which you realize no one else can hand meaning to you is one of the best things that can happen to a person, and one of the most difficult to make it through intact. That is not hyperbole. The transition nearly ruined me, but that which does not kill me makes me stronger. I would never revert to the former mind. Life is wondrous. We want to know and to know that we know, but we have no such guarantee of knowing such things at this time. How do you handle the unknowingness of your reality? Do you embrace cookie-cutter answers to give a false sense of (de)finiteness? I am forced to place religion in that category now. Religion persists, because facing the unknown can be terrifying and devastating. And liberating. It takes some real courage to question everything you think you believe and know and step outside the box and look back inside. Trust no one. No one else can give you The Truth, yet anyone can touch upon it and share it in some fashion. Ultimately though, my friends, you are each alone in this quest. Yet wholly not alone. Everything is riddled with paradox, and I love it. ... 98 degrees in Seattle Spiderweb land today. I had to go swim in Lake Washington, and did it feel good. We usually don't get much into the 80's 'round here. Snicker if you must. -S- -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 73
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written Wednesday, July 11 2007 18:55
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I had a couple existential crises. They are painful, and getting through them is rewarding. I don't know or care about any beings or auras or afterlives or whatevers that are not based solely on observation and reason. Emotions are observable and reason indicates that emotions and various other mental states can, do, and will continue to affect our judgement. The Bible and many other religious texts are observable in and of themselves, so I believe they exist, but I do not have any reason to believe anything they say is true if it cannot be arrived at through observation and reason. For instance, if The Bible says "I am the Lord your God" and I can't observe or arrive at through reason who "I" is and whether this "I" is in fact the Lord my God, then unless and until I gain the ability to do so, I do not and will not believe it is true. Provided nobody impairs my ability to reason or observe, of course, be it through drugs, blunt force trauma, etc. -------------------- My Myspace, with some of my audial and visual art The Lyceum - The Headquarters of the Blades designing community The Louvre - The Blades of Avernum graphics database Alexandria - The Blades of Exile Scenario database BoE Webring - Self explanatory Polaris - Free porn here Odd Todd - Fun for the unemployed (and everyone else too) They Might Be Giants - Four websites for one of the greatest bands in existance -------------------- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 3040
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written Wednesday, July 11 2007 21:27
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I believe in the absence of any divinity, which is not exactly what your definition of atheist is, but is probably what you meant (Drew pointed out this issue). I think I also might fit your definition of agnostic. I certainly don't think that I have absolute knowledge that there is no god. For instance, there might be a god hiding out behind alpha centauri that we'll never see. Or we might all be in the matrix, or there's an evil demon deceiving me into seeing the world the way I see it. My reasons for being atheist are probably not the type to convince anyone; not that anyone's reasons for this kind of thing usually are. Basically I think we're all just animals whose overactive brains picked up "god" as a useful/interesting idea and never let go. A universe without god just makes more sense to me than a universe with god. -------------------- 5.0.1.0.0.0.0.1.0... Posts: 508 | Registered: Thursday, May 29 2003 07:00 |
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Cartographer
Member # 1851
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written Wednesday, July 11 2007 21:29
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You know what I believe in. -------------------- "I'm not crazy!" "Well, whatever. Maybe you just ate something really questionable, or perhaps someone hit you on the head with something large, blunt and heavy just now. By the way..." Gil nudged Grul pointedly. Ooh! Homepage - Blog - Geneforge, +2, +3 - My Elfwood Gallery and DevArt page So many strange ones around. Don't you think? Posts: 1308 | Registered: Sunday, September 8 2002 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Wednesday, July 11 2007 22:32
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quote:We're outside of Ireland, so I can safely make this observation: I think it's a bit funny that the text is exactly identical for the Protestants apart from that line. :P quote:Really, Salmon. I expected better from you. Tch. :P [ Wednesday, July 11, 2007 22:34: Message edited by: jg.faust ] -------------------- Encyclopaedia • Archives • Members • RSS [Topic / Forum] • Blog • Polaris • NaNoWriMo Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. | I have a love of woodwind instruments. "That damn meddling eskimo." --WKS about Alorael Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Post Navel Trauma ^_^
Member # 67
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written Wednesday, July 11 2007 23:19
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Atheist. I'm not absolutely sure that there isn't a god, but I'm also not absolutely sure that my friends aren't aliens in disguise, or that there isn't an invisible dragon behind me. -------------------- Barcoorah: I even did it to a big dorset ram. New Mac BoE Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Wednesday, July 11 2007 23:41
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I'm curious about Deism. What exactly defines a deity if it is neither supernatural nor capable of influencing the world ("acts of god")? -------------------- Encyclopaedia • Archives • Members • RSS [Topic / Forum] • Blog • Polaris • NaNoWriMo Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. | I have a love of woodwind instruments. "That damn meddling eskimo." --WKS about Alorael Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Thursday, July 12 2007 01:03
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There is a God, and He hates you and wants you to suffer. Yes, you, dear reader. No, there's nothing you can do about it. If you love God, it's best to do the most charitable thing possible under the circumstances and pretend he doesn't exist. quote:Actually, a lot of Protestants say that line too, using "catholic" in the original sense of "universal" -- that is, a universal communion of believers. [ Thursday, July 12, 2007 01:05: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6489
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written Thursday, July 12 2007 02:23
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quote:Indeed. I have been and always will be a Lutheran. The only difference between how we say the Apostle's Creed and how the Catholics do is that they capitalize the word, and we don't. :P -------------------- "You're drinking liquor because you're thirsty? How nasty is your freaking water?" —Lazarus Spiderweb Chat Room Avernum RP • Summaries • OoC • Roster Shadow Vale - My site, home of the Spiderweb Chat Database, BoA Scenario Database, & the A1 Quest List, among other things. Posts: 1556 | Registered: Sunday, November 20 2005 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Thursday, July 12 2007 02:32
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It was s/Catholic/Christian here when I went to church. -------------------- Encyclopaedia • Archives • Members • RSS [Topic / Forum] • Blog • Polaris • NaNoWriMo Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. | I have a love of woodwind instruments. "That damn meddling eskimo." --WKS about Alorael Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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By Committee
Member # 4233
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written Thursday, July 12 2007 04:42
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I was Christian for a long time too, mostly out of fear and denial of the abyss. When I was finally able to admit to myself that it would be better to be honest, I went ahead and stared into it, and it was as horrible as I had always thought. While I wouldn't say that I'm 100% reconciled with the idea of nonexistence, or that the experience was rewarding per se, I think I'm more or less functionally numb to the horror, and find rather morbid consolation and humor in the fact that in the very least, all of us will get our turn to find out what's on the other side (or not). Sometimes - rarely though - the terror will take me if, for example, I can't fall asleep late at night for some reason. The really funny thing about all this is that all these thoughts started for me back in the day when I watched "What about Bob?" for the first time and thought about why the little boy was fixated with death. Thank you, Bill Murray! :) [ Thursday, July 12, 2007 04:43: Message edited by: Drew ] Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 1829
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written Thursday, July 12 2007 05:19
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Personally I'm of the belief that there is definite uncertainty. That is, while there is no good way of proving the existence of a deity or deities, there is also no good way of disproving their existence. I'm also of the belief however that worshiping a deity or deities is generally a bad idea; if a deity is benevolent, s/he would much rather be seeing you doing something else, while if s/he is not benevolent it doesn't seem like a good idea to draw attention to yourself. And if you aren't certain that a deity or deities exists, there is also little point in worshiping them, mostly because of the previous two points. Presumably this makes me Agnostic. Posts: 206 | Registered: Tuesday, September 3 2002 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 4248
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written Thursday, July 12 2007 05:50
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I believe that everything in the world forms into a one, single entity, which I happen to call God for sheer convenience. I am not an agnostic in the sense that I don't (anymore) doubt the existence of my God; I just don't believe mankind can ever learn the exact magnitude and nature of this being. Also, in practice there is no such thing as "supernatural"; if something happens, it is possible and there must be some sort of logic governing the event, even though that logic can be completely alien or incomprehensible to humans. If one can see the whole (ie. God), it possible for him to form and understand rules that span the whole existence. And once rules for everything have been found, the flaw of abstract thinking that has created the concept of "supernatural" will vanish and one will see the true nature of God. I hope I managed to explain my views well enough for someone to understand. I have hard time finding words for this in finnish, so naturally the english version is even less sensible. [ Thursday, July 12, 2007 06:56: Message edited by: Frozen Feet ] -------------------- I have nothing more to do in this world, so I can go & pester the inhabitants of the next one with a pure concscience. Posts: 617 | Registered: Tuesday, April 13 2004 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6700
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written Friday, July 13 2007 09:45
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I believe in absolute truth. I know that there is one entity commonly referenced to as God, made up of three separate entities who refer to themselves as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I believe that the English name God also specifically refers to the Father, as he is the Head of the Son and the Holy Spirit, and they willingly follow His will. I know that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are perfect: embodying goodness, love, justice, and all other things from which mankind draws our virtues. I know that God (the triune) is omnipotent and that They supercede time and our physical and spiritual universes, because They created and have full and active control over all, and are not limited by any of them. Because of this, God has omniscience of Their creation (as nothing we know but Them is not their creation) and are able to be omni-present within their creation. I know that God has a divine will, as defined by the will of the Father, and that anything that is not the will of the Father is anathema to them, and is known in English as sin. Because of the just nature of God's being and the pure nature of Their perfection, the only possible result of any sin is that the sinner be punished, and that the only just punishment is eternal separation from God. I know that God created servants, who we know as angels, and a personal place to live, which we know as heaven. I know that They gave Their creations free will, so that the service would be voluntary. I know that the leader among the angels became convinced that his power rivaled that of the Father, and so he began a civil war among the angels, which continues to this day. I know that God created this universe merely by speaking, and that They created it for Their pleasure, and that it was a perfect reflection of the Father's will when it was created. I know that the leader of the rebel angels, known by man as Satan, the liar, entered into this universe and manipulated events so that God's perfect will would be violated. This was triggered by the telling of a a lie to a woman, that she could be like God. I know that a man residing in this world, Adam, who was also the first man, in response to said events actively, intentionally, and knowingly violated God's will, thus corruping the whole of the creation in which he existed. I believe that due to the diametric nature of sin in relation to God's will that all of our universe became instantaneously fully corrpted, resulting in mankind as a whole ignoring God, and the unnatural degredation of living tissue, resulting in death (believe, as opposed to know, because the actual mechanics in the corruption of creation are not told to us, to my knowledge). I know that God also found it fit to punish mankind by placing a curse on us in order to make us bear the consequences of trying to be gods ourselves. I believe that God did not take this maneuver by Satan lightly, and I know that They set out to prove Their power by redeeming the curruption of sin in our world. This plan involved first demonstrating to mankind that, unlike the lie that Satan gave us, we cannot be like God; and setting a standard that shows that we cannot redeem ourselves in God's sight. This led to the creation of the Mosaic Law. The second part of this plan involved satisfying the nature of justice. The only just punishment for sin is death, therefore a system of substitutionary sacrifices was put in place as a stop-gap measure. The flaw with this method was that the instant someone sinned after giving a sacrifice, they were screwed again. The solution was found in that the infinite being of a member of the Triune could take the place and the punishment of those doomed for separation. Therefore, the Father sent the Son to earth to become fully human as well as fully God, and to willingly become the perfect infinite sacrifice, fulfilling the Mosaic Law, and fulfilling the justice of God. I know that a man called Jesus, now known as the Christ, was the human incarnation of the Son, lived a perfect and sinless life, and was executed on the charge of claiming to be God. I believe that He not only physically died, but was also cut off from the rest of the Triune; waited util the third day for the purpose of both fulfilling a sign promised to an earlier prophet, and to prove his death to human authorities; and then through God's infinite power and infinite being, rose from the dead, rejoining body and spirit, and returning him to the Triune. This satisfaction of justice allows the Father to extend grace to those who will accept it; that anyone who accepts the sacrifice of the Son to be his on But man man, in his pride, ignores the Father and the Son, and continues to try to exist through his own power. The third part of this plan is God's manipulation and revelation of and in this world to convince mankind that grace is the only option for reconciliation, and that the only alternative is eternal punishment. Thus, the Son established the entity known as the Church, to be God's representative on earth; and the Holy Spirit instructed several of the Son's students in the writing of a New Testament for the age of grace. The fourth and final stage of this plan will occur when the Father decides that it is time: not even the Son knows when. But the Father will call the church out of our universe, and give mankind to Satan, simply to prove man's depravity. After this point is made, the Triune will manifest themselves Earth with their full power, bringing their full army of angels to squelch Satan's rebellion in a massive show that leaves no doubts in the minds of men as to where the power to lead lies. They will then commence in judgement, giving grace to those who have asked for it, and punishing those too proud to do so. Earth will be remoulded and sin will be counterbalanced with justice and separation from God until all is perfect. And then? I dunno. I know that God has given their Word in the form of the compilation we know as the Bible. I know that the Bible is literal in all that it says (after all, the testament of a vision gives the vision, not necessarily what it represents); that God has a tendancy to form chronological events into metaphors (and has stated as such); that all prophesy made that has occurred has been recorded to be true by outside historians; and that it even does claim to be the Word of God. I believe that the current canon of the Bible is the complete edition, containing everything that mankind needs to know about God at this point in the plan, and know that the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts from which we draw our translations are slightly over 99% accurate in comparison to each other and therefore the assumed originals. This is truth, and it claims to be truth, and gives itself support. And, unlike many, I do believe in absolute truth. -------------------- The Silent Assassin once replaced a pillar in our basement with a stack of Bibles. Although I do appreciate the symbolism, I did not appreciate the cannon that he was trying to make out of said pillar, and asked him to put it back. -------------------- -Lenar Labs What's Your Destiny? Ushmushmeifa: Lenar's power is almighty and ineffable. All hail lord Noric, god of... well, something important, I'm sure. Posts: 735 | Registered: Monday, January 16 2006 08:00 |