Deathmatch Tournament -- Round One, Part One
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| Author | Topic: Deathmatch Tournament -- Round One, Part One |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Tuesday, May 1 2007 17:04
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Originally by Lazarus: quote:Hey, with a god character, you can beat the scenario without dying easily. You just can't win it. :P Dikiyoba. Edit: Added quote. [ Tuesday, May 01, 2007 17:06: Message edited by: Dikiyoba ] Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Tuesday, May 1 2007 18:45
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Appropriate that a response to a page 2 response to a page 1 post appears on page 3. DV - Of course tripping a vlish would be tentacly impossible, except that Nioca seems to defy all logic. One would think that he would, given the proper guidance, stop being a complete annoyance, but that has terned out to not be the case at all. If I were to waste a precious second thinking about him, it would be to shake my head in sadness and utter the immemorable phrase "I know you are, but what am I?" That is his weapon, phear it. Edit - Aran. No kidding. Nice of you to notice. [ Tuesday, May 01, 2007 18:47: Message edited by: Some Slimy Idiot ] -------------------- quote: Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Tuesday, May 1 2007 18:57
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JUDGE'S OPINION Round One, Part One Hades Polygedmon, who receives many, welcomed you to the deathmatch. Now Degei, the Fijian judge of the dead, presents you with the first round of results. Thanks, again, to everyone who contributed the profusion of thoughtful answers! I would mention names, but I really have found something insightful in nearly every reply. I have a few general remarks. First, the argument that "if player X wins because of ability Y (spray acid/revival/whatever) he is broken and will win the tournament" is baloney. You could say that about any player and any ability. Every ability here can be countered in numerous ways. Imban's and Icshi's abilities did not fall in that category, which is why they were removed from the roster. Second, I think Dikiyoba was right about the polls. I am going to keep them, because they still produce good information, and are fun, but the decisions can't come directly from the polls. Particularly as there are a few cases here where everyone seems to have overlooked a rather critical piece of information. 1. Infernal vs. Excalibur Okay, let's clear up the sword business first. First of all... Demonslayer sucks. It's useful against demons... in some of the games in which it appears. In Exile, it sucked due to being two-handed, and in Avernum it was just worse than other special weapons. (Let's not even mention Avernum 4, in which it does less damage than a stick. (Ironically, I think Infernal was actually the one who provided the empirical data on that comparison.)) And Excalibur, the person, isn't a demon. Excalibur the sword, on the other hand, is never a bad weapon. Demonslayer was wielded by the not-so-impressive Karzoth, while Excalibur was wielded by King Arthur. Actually, forget King Arthur -- Excalibur was the sword wielded by the pre-eminently broken Cidolfas Orlandu. End of discussion right there. That said, Infernal clearly has more experience fighting. And Infernal has Mossad on her side -- but, as also pointed out, Mossad isn't going to attack a conservative American. Excalibur, however, apparently isn't conservative. Who knew? He also somehow mistook Infernal for Muffin, which is pretty much a fatal blunder, one that might lead to Infernal killing somebody outside of the tournament. Infernal wins -- no contest. Excalibur does, however, win intellectual honesty points for being the only participant to voice support for his opponent. 2. Delicious Vlish vs. Nioca As pointed out, the purple bandits are useless since Vlish would just Dominate them. Nioca has Quick Action, but Vlish has terrain-based initiative. Smite is not a particularly cheap spell, and Vlish don't have a slow recharge rate or high energy use rate at all; but neither one has infinite shots. Vlish don't have high HP, but neither do priests. It's true that Mental Magic is unlikely to be effective against a priest. Slowing mist, on the other hand, should work just as effectively as Smite does. (And it is definitely slowing mist, as Delicious Vlish's conception predates the G4 vlish by years.) And the free ancillary slow effect gives DV the initiative... and then, the Feisty Slap of Pain settles things. If DV does get close to death, it was pointed out that he will go rogue, and as Dikiyoba has shown us, when DV goes rogue he's nearly unstoppable. Vlish wins. That said, the flatulence issue might change things if Nioca cast, say, Flamestrike. But Nioca just casts Smite... so no dice. 3. Lord Grimm vs. the Silent Assassin -------------------- The Silent Assassin wins very quickly, and he's not going to reveal how. 4. Andraste vs. Thralni Why, oh why, did nobody bother to look up what a Gisahl vegetable was? Gisahl vegetables (which may or may not be carrot tops; it's unclear) are not for throwing. They summon a (very) distant relative of chickens... Fat Chocobos. (Or at least ancient veggies do, and Thralni was part of the First Expedition, which makes him quite ancient.) Fat Chocobos, while they don't fly, have a rather vicious air-drop attack (which was in fact half the inspiration behind Bovine Thud), and Thralni can fly. Moreover, as a Nephil, he can likely dodge the clubs and the sexy -- as Exile tells us repeatedly, "Nephilim mate for life." Thralni wins. 5. Nalyd vs. Lazarus First of all... let's clear up the definition of undead. Undead does not mean "not dead." It's just not what it means, and there are decades of fantasy games and stories that will back this up. But let's turn to the truly authoritative source... I speak, of course, of the Encyclopedia Ermariana entry on Undead (coincidentally written mostly by me): "The undead are creatures who have died, but are subsequently re-animated by dark forces in a liminal state." Clearly, Lazarus is never undead. Now, Jewels brought up a very good point of order: if Lazarus dies (and presumably, he will at least once) does the match end there? I would say no, regardless of Nalyd's perseverating; there are analogues in boxing (the 10-count) and in RPGs (Auto-Life status activating even when all party members are dead). Lazarus, however, is not immortal. He is killed with a measure of finality in Dikiyoba's scripts -- by, as it so happens, a mob of skeletons. He just has to be killed and crushed and dismembered repeatedly. Nalyd is persistent enough to do that. There remains, however, the matter of Lazarus's own offence: putting Nalyd into an impossible scenario. Nalyd's BoA acumen is clearly less than stated, given that it is impossible to surpass level 100, even if you cheat! ...Lazarus wins, and becomes the first person to kill an undead creature with extreme frost. 6. ADoS vs. Randomizer Spray Acid is pretty slow to take effect, and the two turtles, against which Randomizer has no real defense, cannot be ignored. If ADoS sustains any acid damage, he can use Paint to touch it up. ADoS wins, though he receives a warning from the Judge for his behavior in the audience. 7. Nikki vs. Nemesis Dainslaifs don't actually require that their creator die before they activate. Dainslaifs beat mechanical pencils. ...Nemesis wins. 8. Saunders vs. Stew Boy I'm not sure Stew Boy has been around long enough to be completely out of danger from the turtles, but he has certainly learned how to dodge away from them. However, Student of Trinity has, as usual, fulfilled his own elegance function, and produced an unsimplifiable, uncontradictable solution: Saunders never gets upset. Saunders wins. Congratulations to the winners. Look for Round One, Part Two to be posted Wednesday morning (EST). -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Tuesday, May 1 2007 19:28
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Actually, to deal with purple bandits, I would in fact, dominate them, but would also fall back on an age old Vlish ability... Call in the clawbugs. (And or plated bugs) Somewhat shocked that nobody mentioned that seeing as how there are some diehard Geneforge players here. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Tuesday, May 1 2007 19:44
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Originally by Slartucker: quote:Nooooo! Oh well. Predicting six out of eight winners isn't bad. Should we move the losers to the Avernum 4 Forum so they can be restored to vote on the rest of the matches? Dikiyoba. Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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Shake Before Using
Member # 75
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written Tuesday, May 1 2007 19:47
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quote:Nope, Slarty. While I don't actually know if BoA caps leveling, it's at the very least possible to level to 120 or so off of monsters, and to 250 in the HLPM if you choose to become a god party. Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Tuesday, May 1 2007 21:10
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Wow... you vetoed an 80% majority on Nikki/Nemesis. :P -------------------- Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum] My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast. Polaris is dead, long live Polaris. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
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written Tuesday, May 1 2007 22:26
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quote:And did it without even addressing the points most people were bringing up: Considering that Nemesis' card says "Mild-mannared" and most of Nikki's skills are non-physical, why did the judge decide that this match should be resolved by physical combat? If Lazarus can win using BoA skills that aren't even on his character sheet, why can't Nikki win by using poetry to impress, distract, or inspire depression? (Or even by threatening to leave Nemesis out of Project Spidweb? :P ) (Nikki's character gives opportunity for much more fun scenarios, so while I like both participants in this match, it would be more fun to see Nikki in future rounds.) -------------------- Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword, For it too has the power to kill. However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword, Can also have the power to heal. Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Master
Member # 5977
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written Wednesday, May 2 2007 00:09
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Oh my god, I won! *starts dancing happily around the room, while clapping his hands and singing "merry christmas" Congratulations to the winners, and for those who lost, I'm sorry. Can't wait to see round 2, though. This deathmatch business is fun. -------------------- Play and rate my scenarios: Where the rivers meet View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape. Give us your drek! Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6403
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written Wednesday, May 2 2007 02:13
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quote:Hi. Edit: I hate not reading the latest page. [ Wednesday, May 02, 2007 02:15: Message edited by: radix malorum est cupiditas ] -------------------- ??? ?????? ???? ????? Posts: 883 | Registered: Wednesday, October 19 2005 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 5360
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written Wednesday, May 2 2007 02:40
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Nonsense. To surpass even level 250 in BoA, all you have to do is put one god character with a bunch of level 1s. The Editor takes their average. -------------------- May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it. Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Wednesday, May 2 2007 03:18
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quote:How do you have a deathmatch that doesn't involve, y'know, death? quote:If you tried this in an actual scenario (as opposed to the HLPM, which does things in a special way), you would find out that it is not the case. Please talk out of your mouth in future instead of your ass. [ Wednesday, May 02, 2007 03:31: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Master
Member # 5977
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written Wednesday, May 2 2007 03:26
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Oooh, I think we have an applicant for the position of TM here. EDIT: use of other words. [ Wednesday, May 02, 2007 04:46: Message edited by: Thralni ] -------------------- Play and rate my scenarios: Where the rivers meet View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape. Give us your drek! Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Wednesday, May 2 2007 03:33
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Regarding BoA levels -- my understanding (and this comes mainly from TM, given my lack of BoA experience) is that it explicitly can't happen no matter what calls happen in the scripts. If this isn't the case, I have some illithid to flay. Either way, I think Nalyd is now obligated to post a screenshot, so we can ooh and aah or boo and hiss. Thralni -- nobody can ever fill the Holy of Holies. ;) Edit: Aran, you just wanted to face Nikki yourself. Admit it :P Edit 2: I almost forgot. Thuryl, keep the tournament clean, please. [ Wednesday, May 02, 2007 03:59: Message edited by: Degei ] -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 73
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written Wednesday, May 2 2007 04:41
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I apologize, Excalibur. I thought that "too obvious" comment was a cheap swipe at me. My mistake. I'm a bit irritable from my schoolwork and I tend to overreact, but it's not really an excuse. Again, I apologize. At any rate, I wasn't arguing that Spray Acid was necessarily broken. I was arguing that it was broken if it was regarded as an autokill simply because the opponent has a body. Of course, acid is slow-acting in Spidweb games and can be removed in the meantime if one has the ability to do so. I just didn't think of that when I made the post. Sorry for the misunderstanding. -------------------- My Myspace, with some of my audial and visual art The Lyceum - The Headquarters of the Blades designing community The Louvre - The Blades of Avernum graphics database Alexandria - The Blades of Exile Scenario database BoE Webring - Self explanatory Polaris - Free porn here Odd Todd - Fun for the unemployed (and everyone else too) They Might Be Giants - Four websites for one of the greatest bands in existance -------------------- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 3442
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written Wednesday, May 2 2007 05:23
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*is speechless* -------------------- And when you want to Live How do you start? Where do you go? Who do you need to know? *Name by Slarty, so blame him if it's filthy... Posts: 2864 | Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 5360
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written Wednesday, May 2 2007 08:30
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Nalyd has no idea how to post a screenshot. Or how to take a screenshot, either. -------------------- May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it. Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Wednesday, May 2 2007 09:20
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Then you shall learn how. Dikiyoba. Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Wednesday, May 2 2007 20:22
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quote:I suspect we have rather different ideas of what it needs to be kept clean of, but okay, I'll behave. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 5360
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written Thursday, May 3 2007 12:10
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Crap. After a day of trying, Nalyd can't do it. All of his Spiderweb games are on a separate computer, which used to be his mom's but when she got a new one, she gave it to him. He uses a huge multitude of backup discs to port new scenarios from this one, which is the only one with internet access, to his, which the Spiderweb games are on. He has failed, however, in putting the registered version of BoA on this computer, so he can't get to his party, which, believe it or not, isn't in VoTDT. So you'll have to go on his word. So he's going to give up now and quietly crawl into his corner of death. -------------------- May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it. Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00 |
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Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
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written Thursday, May 3 2007 12:21
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quote:You can just copy the picture from your BoA computer to this one the same way you copy scenarios from your internet computer to your BoA one: 1. On your BoA computer, open the game that has your super party. 2. Press the Print Screen (Prnt Scrn) key. (Or MAC equivalent.) 3. Open Paint (Start->Programs->Accessories->Paint) or MAC equivalent, and Paste in the picture. 4. (optional) Select the important part of the picture and copy it into new window. 5. Save the picture to a floppy disk, or USB drive. 6. Put your floppy disk, or USB drive into the computer with internet access. 7. Go to http://imageshack.us/ Click Browse button, select your picture, and click Host it! button. 8. Paste the link here. -------------------- Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword, For it too has the power to kill. However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword, Can also have the power to heal. Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 5360
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written Thursday, May 3 2007 12:33
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Why, thank you, Zeviz. Here we go. He may have been off by a few levels, but still pretty high. Probably won't make any difference, though. The Deathmatch is already lost. This calls for graemlins. :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( [ Thursday, May 03, 2007 12:36: Message edited by: Spokesmage of the Dead ] -------------------- May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it. Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7472
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written Thursday, May 3 2007 13:21
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quote:ACK! ... *recovers from graemlin shock; notices picture* Wow. I wonder how high you could actually get that. -------------------- I tried to think of something witty to put here. Needless to say, I failed. Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Thursday, May 3 2007 15:19
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However high the variable that stores experience will go, I assume. —Alorael, who now wants a Ridiculously High Level Party Maker and scenarios that use it. If it can be done, it must be done. For science! Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Thursday, May 3 2007 15:56
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I'm not sure I completely follow the discussion happening here, but let me throw in some info. The HLPM makes parties at any level from 2 to 100. It can get them up to 250 if the god option is selected. IIRC, 250 was just an arbitrary high value that I chose — you can go much, much higher than that if you do basically the same thing as the HLPM does but cap the loop much higher. However, monsters only go up to level 99 or 100 (I forget which), and I never did figure out a way to get them higher in Exodus (where I actually tried). So in-game leveling may be very slow after a certain point, which puts a damper on any scenario (*cough* *Slith Homeland Part 3* *cough*) that would have used parties starting at extremely high levels. Of course, one could do the Doom Moon II thing and try to make it still worthwhile to go through a scenario (in terms of rewards) even without leveling. But that's another issue. This almost certainly completely irrelevant to anything in this thread, but I felt like posting it. :cool: -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |