I Have A Beef With You All
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Shaper
Member # 7420
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written Friday, December 15 2006 19:18
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Careful, Nioca. You're sounding more and more like them every day. -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7472
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written Friday, December 15 2006 19:51
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What? I have a beef with anyone who decides to randomly slander other people, especially when said person doesn't have any factual evidence to back it up. -------------------- I tried to think of something witty to put here. Needless to say, I failed. Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 34
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written Friday, December 15 2006 20:27
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Hey, hey, ok, I now understand what you're saying, Nicoa. Synergy's case was just one I picked up on and was something that led me to turn what I'd been mulling over for a while into a topic. Same goes for Courtney's topic. If anyone's felt slandered against by my opinional voicing here, I'm sorry, and never thought about using my wording as insults ('prudes' and everything else weren't really meant to be offensive). I try to talk about broad generalizations with a few specific examples to convey what meaning I have. Hoo-rah for discussion, it's a wonderful thing, and is what keeps this place going. Counteropinions are, of course, what make a discussion. But they are just as effective without calling people 'juvenile' or deliberately making condescensions to a person. -------------------- Frisbeetarianism is the belief that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck. 'Spiderweb Software' anagrammmed: 'Word-bereft A**wipe' Posts: 702 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Friday, December 15 2006 21:56
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Originally by Garrison: quote:By the time this thread is through, someone will be able to have a signature full of hilarious Garrison quotes. Dikiyoba. Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7472
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written Friday, December 15 2006 21:57
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quote:My apologies. I genuinely thought you had some sort of malicious intent when you made this thread. I was mistaken. Furthermore, I mis-interpreted a lot of what you were saying as insults toward the board and it's members in general (no pun intended). Oh, and the Fatman gender mix-up? That's an excellent argument for good syntax. -------------------- I tried to think of something witty to put here. Needless to say, I failed. Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Saturday, December 16 2006 00:14
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quote:But was the hostility coming from me personally? Again, you're painting with a very broad brush here. I'm singling you out on this because people do it all the time on these boards. TM used to pick fights with me, and when I responded something like, "I disagree," in no more vitriolic terms than that, I'd get people yelling at me to calm down and telling me that we were both hotheaded jerks. Whenever I get into any debate on this board and anyone on either side gets hostile, several people interpret that as me getting hostile, too, when I haven't actually said anything hostile. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7538
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written Saturday, December 16 2006 01:41
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quote:Nioca, I think that's exactly his point. He wants you to do that, as a Tullegolite. :P More or less on topic, I think it's fairly safe to dismiss many of the misunderstandings on these boards (or any, for that matter) as being 'lost in translation'. Can we all agree that communication is much more physical than verbal? Without the physical part, everything is pretty much taken out of context, which isn't necessarily safe to do. -------------------- Do not provoke the turtles. They do not like being provoked. -Lenar My website: Nemesis' Refuge Posts: 743 | Registered: Friday, September 29 2006 07:00 |
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Master
Member # 5977
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written Saturday, December 16 2006 03:39
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Sorry to interupt this topic, but I really have to say this: Finally somebody said all this! I once said it too, if I remember correctly, although in a more obscure way. Yes, i totally agree with you, and I think that the older, more prominent members here are getting increasingly arrogant and unwelcoming (I'm not saying I'm not acting in an other way, I'm usually being sarcastig, ironic or something of that kind. That's the forum's influence on my behavior on internet). I'm quite glad to see that this has been said. Now who exactly are you? I don't remember user names/member numbers. -------------------- Play and rate my scenarios: Where the rivers meet View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape. Give us your drek! Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Saturday, December 16 2006 05:49
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With all due respect, there is a difference between being an arrogant jerk who throws insults, and demanding in a candid and straightword way that you have intellectually rigorous standards in a debate. There was at least one debate participant who lost track of the difference and veered into insults, but the so-called "pile-on" on Synergy was really just a pile-on on poorly explained arguments. Complaining about member behavior here is kind of ridiculous. This is the Internet! There is no personal accountability, so people are jerks. Spidweb really has a much friendlier and more welcoming community in almost every respect than I would ever expect to find most places on the net, let alone in a gaming forum. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Saturday, December 16 2006 07:02
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I think Kelandon may be right that people have specifically been giving him a hard time lately. Making continual snide remarks about his BoA scenarios, for instance, is despicable if you appreciate how much work those things are. I have noticed that lately he has been taking more apparent offense at those sorts of things; I would say, understandably. That doesn't warrant treating him as an equal offender. -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2820
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written Saturday, December 16 2006 07:30
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[ Saturday, December 16, 2006 07:33: Message edited by: Garrison ] -------------------- Thuryl: I mean, most of us don't go around consuming our own bodily fluids, no matter how delicious they are. ==== Alorael: War and violence would end if we all had each other's babies! ==== Drakefyre: Those are hideous mangos. Posts: 1415 | Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2820
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written Saturday, December 16 2006 07:32
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quote:I am shocked at your continued offense to my conciliatory efforts. I called you a protobacterium, what more do you want? To be truthful I ignored addressing your concerns because I thought I had made it clear that I acknowledged that there was little intellectual basis for my disliking your conduct. The thread felt hostile, and you can argue all you want against that, but you have to admit that many people thought it was not a "nice" debate. Each issue you took up and argued against was done so in a factually based and consistent manner; however, my question is whether it was necessary to destroy each of Synergy's points. Knocking down his beliefs with the type of science that he objected against was not productive after around post 30, in my opinion. I chose to stop debating at that point. You and others did not, and that was your decision. I have no "beef" with that further than that is not what I would have done. I refuse to base a strong attack against your posts, Kelandon. I could appeal to being nicer, but that is a wimpy proposition, and there is nothing I hate more than voluntary weakness. EDIT: First double post in a long time. [ Saturday, December 16, 2006 07:33: Message edited by: Garrison ] -------------------- Thuryl: I mean, most of us don't go around consuming our own bodily fluids, no matter how delicious they are. ==== Alorael: War and violence would end if we all had each other's babies! ==== Drakefyre: Those are hideous mangos. Posts: 1415 | Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Saturday, December 16 2006 07:49
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I told you why I was calling you out on this, so don't be surprised. Apparently you disliked that I kept posting in a thread, even as it was changing topics and even though my responses got shorter and farther between and moreover even though nothing I said was inappropriate at all, simply because it sounded as though no progress was being made? This sounds wacky and stupid, but I think you just confessed that. Okay. Whatever. As long as you realize and admit how groundless your assertions of my wrongdoing are, you can continue to believe in them, I suppose. :P -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2820
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written Saturday, December 16 2006 09:21
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Honestly I just wanted Synergy to stop changing his topics so that you all would not feel obligated to respond to them. My view is not wacky, just more wimpy than I'd like to admit. Also, remember the last sentence of my commentary about you in my locked thread. I gave you the minor complement of not intensifying your posts as time went on. I try not to believe in groundless propositions, Kelandon. Regardless, that doesn't mean you can convince me to love your posts in that thread. My dislike may be more emotional than logical, but what more can I admit? It is not as if you lose anything because of my dislike. Nevertheless, quote:and :) -------------------- Thuryl: I mean, most of us don't go around consuming our own bodily fluids, no matter how delicious they are. ==== Alorael: War and violence would end if we all had each other's babies! ==== Drakefyre: Those are hideous mangos. Posts: 1415 | Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00 |
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Master
Member # 5977
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written Saturday, December 16 2006 09:44
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quote:Yes, you are absolutely right: this is the internet, which for me means the following: - I don't see you, you don't see me, which means you can do and be whatever and whoever you want. - This automatically means that you can say to know more about something than you really know about it. This may be true for somenody, but also false. i don't say this counts for all members here, it's just the standards I made for myself after being long enough on forums and in chats. There are some members here of which I won't name their usernames (don't want to get enemies about nothing, really), who act as if they seem to know all on every field, and automatically think that other members, who'se spelling or grammar might not be very good, are less. I hate that. I absolutely, really hate that, even more than I hate undead. There are also things that people here tend to take far to seriously. For a great part this involves a person's sene of humor and grammar/spelling. Take a person for who he is. If you don't like it, you don't. That doesn't mean you have to treat him differently. If it's true taht this community really is that friendly, than I would think that this is, at least amongst most members, normal. I didn't notice it, though. -------------------- Play and rate my scenarios: Where the rivers meet View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape. Give us your drek! Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Saturday, December 16 2006 10:35
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Oh no! This has turned into the kind of debate that I have to respond to point by point! quote:I'd be offended if you called me a protobacterium. A proteobacterium is more acceptable. Kel may be gutlike, but he's not primitive! quote:I'm not sure that anyone (we or they, depending on your perspective) is getting more arrogant. There have always been arrogant oldbies and there always will be. It tends to run in cycles, but I haven't noticed any real outbreak in recent weeks. quote:Well, yes. In a debate, which is what that thread was whether or not it was intended to be one, destroying points is exactly what you need to do. We also weren't destroying his all points with science, because many of his points weren't scientific. When he was off in his science we pointed it out; when he was off in his beliefs about the current policies and actions of the scientific esetablishment we pointed that out too. I guess I'm just wasting time again, though, because you've admitted that it's a gut reaction and not a carefully thought out one. —Alorael, who doesn't understand what makes Kel the wrongdoer here. There were certainly far worse offenders in that thread. Among them is a certain individual just finished a post with this very sentence. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 2836
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written Saturday, December 16 2006 13:20
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quote:Just because a particular discussion is online doesn't mean people should be able to behave any way they want. It doesn't mean people should be able to be jerks and get away with it. Internet users should behave just as courteously as they would be in real life (at least, if they are courteous in real life). Of course, the above seldom happens on the Internet, sadly. People do think they can be jerks, and most of the time they do get away with it. The above arguements were based on my interpretation of your post. I could be very wrong in that, and please correct me if I am. Posts: 587 | Registered: Tuesday, April 1 2003 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7420
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written Saturday, December 16 2006 13:28
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I thought that's what mods were for. Unfortunatly, the mods agreed with the points that the people who were throwing around crude insults were making. If it had been me on the other side speaking to people in such a rude manner, I would have been banned so fast. But there is a double standard around here. I believe that's manifest of the arrogance that people have been refering to. [ Saturday, December 16, 2006 13:29: Message edited by: Emperor Tullegolar ] -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Saturday, December 16 2006 13:41
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Well, sure, I'd like people to be considerate online (and in real life too, for that matter) but the bottom line is most people won't be. I do think there's a double standard here -- well, not so much a double standard as a sliding one. People are allowed more slack if they make contributions to Spidweb. That makes sense, except sometimes the contributions and, um, deficits, are in very different areas. (I have somehow ended up as TM's friend, and talk to him on a regular basis, but frankly he should have been permabanned years before he was.) What I think we need are not more bannings or editings, but more warnings. "Slarty: If you continue with the invective and personal attacks in this thread, you will be banned." Warnings with follow-through, I should say. (Of course, I also set and enforce limits on people who don't want them set for a living, so go figure.) -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Saturday, December 16 2006 14:07
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Yes, overall value and contribution to the community is one of the primary concerns when deciding the severity of the penalty. Those that have contributed a lot I will give more (although not infinite, see TM and Alec) leeway to. If you have contributed more here, it would make the difference between whether I decide to apply a warning or a more severe punishment. This is primarily for community management reasons, older members tend to be more receptive to simple warnings and a ban really would not be all that useful. I prefer to avoid permanent bans unless things get really bad. I will reiterate, this has nothing to do with the content of the arguments themselves. Yes, there were things said in the Synergy topic that were beyond the scope of things. But there has been nothing really, in my judgment, to merit substantial punishment yet. Remember, just because nothing was done in terms of disciplinary action (other than telling Synergy to watch himself near the beginning), I have noted the conduct there and if things accumulate to a point, I will take action. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2820
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written Saturday, December 16 2006 14:13
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Proteobacterium? Sometimes I hate spelling. How do even know the proper spelling of this taxonomic name? The points made against me about how my position against Kelandon is so unfair illustrate an annoying tendency in the community. The issue, I think, has been resolved, and yet little sentences of my posts are continuing to be picked apart. This whole thing started with a fairly innocuous sentence. So I was unfair and have been contrite without unduly denying my instinctive reaction. I would have been more sympathetic to Synergy's position. You all continued with the logical, rhetorical aspect. The dislike arose from that dissonance. It is that simple. Now then, is everyone satisfied? EDIT: Garrghhh! I wish this all had gone into my thread. Bah humbug. [ Saturday, December 16, 2006 14:15: Message edited by: Garrison ] -------------------- Thuryl: I mean, most of us don't go around consuming our own bodily fluids, no matter how delicious they are. ==== Alorael: War and violence would end if we all had each other's babies! ==== Drakefyre: Those are hideous mangos. Posts: 1415 | Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00 |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Saturday, December 16 2006 14:24
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I went back and reread the entire Synergy thread, or what was left of it. Aside from Alec and a few other scattered posts, I found nothing to be horribly condescending or outside the norms of a standard debate. The only thing that made this one particularly seem worse is that it was one person versus everything else. Anyway, this discussion, I feel, has outlived much of its usefulness. I would have killed it immediately upon giving a response to the initial thread post had Synergy not posted in it. Be that it is devolved beyond much substance, I think it is time to leave this one be. If anyone wishes to continue it, you may, of course, do so in a private venue. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |