No tag backs!
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Infiltrator
Member # 5410
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written Friday, November 3 2006 10:04
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quote:Where is such a conclusion contained in anything I wrote? quote:And raising the societal norm is...tocondone and in fact encourage violent response in children. You know, they say that children make good soldiers because they become less constrained by morality as they are repeatedly exposed to brutality. Hmmm, maybe you wish to train a child army? quote:No response because you don't yet parent? Or because you believe in nature over nurture? -------------------- "Dikiyoba ... is demon ... drives people mad and ... do all sorts of strange things." "You Spiderwebbians are mad, mad, mad as March hares." Posts: 687 | Registered: Wednesday, January 19 2005 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Friday, November 3 2006 12:19
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Ephesos: No action is inherently right or wrong. In context, though, actions can be right or wrong, and that context is clearly implied in "proper." —Alorael, who worries about treating the symptoms and not the disease. If you whack bullies and they stop bullying you, are they any less bullies for it? How is that supposed to help them acclimate socially? Is it necessary for them to do so, and if so, whose job is it to make them? Sooner or later you can't count on kids to raise each other right. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 2836
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written Friday, November 3 2006 12:53
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quote:I just thought of another reply to this. What if it's not being unable to fight back that's the problem? What if it goes against someone's morals? Sure, he might be being harrassed by a weaker person, but if it goes against his own code of ethics, he won't want to fight back at all. This is probably the case with me. I don't like hurting people. Posts: 587 | Registered: Tuesday, April 1 2003 08:00 |
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Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
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written Friday, November 3 2006 13:58
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Stew Boy, I was in the same situation as you when at school. I was smallest and weakest kid in the class, and always knew (and still do) that "fighting is bad". However, "fighting is bad" applies only to the fights that you start or cause yourself (provoking a fight is just as bad as starting one). If you are pushed, you are expected to push back. I still suggest that, if you've never fought back, suddenly showing your ability to beat up the guy who always bullied you is the only way to get him to stop if all else has failed. (Note the "if all else failed" part. I am not saying that teachers should ignore the complaints, but there are plenty of interactions with kids outside of school.) quote:You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either you believe in turning the other cheek so much that you are willing to take any abuse that is thrown at you without a complain, or you are using "non-violence" simply as an excuse to avoid protecting yourself. -------------------- Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword, For it too has the power to kill. However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword, Can also have the power to heal. Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
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written Friday, November 3 2006 14:07
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I guess I'll try the "using different posts to reply to different parts of conversation" method. :) (This forum really needs threaded view option.) About playground surface, I didn't realize that the only alternatives are rubber and concrete. If that is the case, rubber is obviously better. You don't need any equipment to break bones falling onto concrete. However, what happened to the ground? The stuff that was there before they've installed the playground equipment. The surface onto which the kids are most likely to fall when climbing trees, steep hills, and whatever else they climb when not on the playground. The main problem with playground surfaces that you can't get hurt on no matter what you do is that kids will never learn that falling from tall things hurts a lot and might break their heads later, when they try to do the same things they did on the playground in a place where ground isn't covered by rubber. EDIT: Almost forgot about my Zamiatin reference. Don't worry, I am not making a third post in a row for it. quote:This book made me think a lot about what kind of future world I'd like to live in, because the motivations for building that kind of society are the same as motivations for building "bright socialist future", or motivations for banning tag in schools for that matter. I'd recommend reading it instead of "1984", because while "1984" is simply a parody of Stalin's USSR, "We" is an actual Utopia-that-doesn't-look-too-appealing kind of dystopia. [ Friday, November 03, 2006 15:58: Message edited by: Zeviz ] -------------------- Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword, For it too has the power to kill. However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword, Can also have the power to heal. Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Friday, November 3 2006 16:37
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Thanks Zeviz, I'll put it on the list. As to the play surface medium problem, we had sand underneath all apparatus. Swings, jungle gym, horizontal ladder, climbing pole, slide, see-saw, even the tether ball. I can't recall anyone getting injured from a fall, and we always flew off the swing set when we had gotten it as high as it could go. Well, maybe some kids forgot to not get sand in their eye, but that is hardly an injury, even for a 1st grader. Practicing my standard of making one post to cover multiple posts, in response to the non-violence morals posited by Stew Boy... :rolleyes: :confused: :rolleyes: If you are a Buddhist I apologise, but I somehow think you would have mentioned that already. Your stance of non-violence, not wanting to hurt someone, or whatever excuse is a huge cop-out. What are you going to do when you are on a date with the girl of your dreams and some ass starts hitting on her? What are you going to do when you are interviewing for a great job and you are asked " Why should I hire you instead of this other guy?" All this stuff, from Zeviz, Kel, Alec, DeVlish, Ephesos, and me is geared toward making your self-confidence increase. Listening to you say time and again [whine]"I can't do that."[/whine] pisses me off and makes me realize that my time has been wasted. You are on your own buddy. -------------------- quote: Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 4153
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written Friday, November 3 2006 17:41
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Alo: Point taken. Fatman: I apologize for my overreaction. Something about this topic is just getting me angry... perhaps it's those memories of being one of those little kids who got taunted all the time. But then again, that's a stupid excuse. quote:Look, man. I don't like hurting people either. I consider myself a pacifist. I just think that there's a point where you just can't take it anymore and you just have to slap someone (for me, it takes a while to get there). But the least you can do is to avoid the freakin' antagonist. -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Friday, November 3 2006 17:44
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Stew Boy, if you really are the sort of person who believes in non-violence and not capable of striking back for normal bullying (not the kind that result in serious injuries), then you have to develop different strategies. Learn the people and situations that result in you getting bullied, and avoid them. If you get into a situation that makes you feel uncomfortable, leave. Learn how to stay calm and give simple, direct statements when faced by a bully. Learn when to walk away. Accept that you will recieve minor blows and harrassment and be okay with it. Accept that there is always the potential to be bullied and don't let the fear of it effect your life. The key thing here is to never let the bullies faze or control you, because as soon as you've let them get away with that, they've beaten you. Dikiyoba. Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Friday, November 3 2006 18:12
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Frankly, my experience is that advising people to fight back is misguided. I was bullied at school and I got into a lot of fights. I won quite a few of them. People got hurt. It didn't help, and it's not a course of action I recommend. What did help was learning to walk away. [ Friday, November 03, 2006 18:14: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Friday, November 3 2006 18:32
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There are wolves, sheep, and shepherds in life. You must ultimately choose your place in life. If you do not choose, the choice will be made for you. Accept your place in life and be content. If you are unhappy where you are, you should have chose another path. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Friday, November 3 2006 18:58
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quote:  [ Friday, November 03, 2006 18:58: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Friday, November 3 2006 19:10
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quote:ZOMG!!! They do all lead there. Just don't get stuck on the loop! :D -------------------- quote: Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Friday, November 3 2006 19:19
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quote:Hey, someone figured out what I meant. I'm pleasantly surprised. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Friday, November 3 2006 19:32
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All those roads lead to either shepherds or wolves, depending on your views and opinions. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Friday, November 3 2006 21:03
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It looks like they lead to a dead end. Still there are some situations where you can't walk away or talk your way out. Ghandi's idea of passive resistance wouldn't have worked with Hitler if he had gotten to India. It would just have made it easier. You had reports a few days ago of Chinese border guards shooting Buddhist monks trying to flee Tibet. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Friday, November 3 2006 21:10
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Rome is a wilderness of tigers. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
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written Friday, November 3 2006 21:31
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quote:I love how you refuse to respond to anything I say, instead spewing manager-ese platitudes about people being 'wolves, sheep, or shepherds'. I suppose those wolves are an action item we ought to double-click on if we want to leverage our sheep-shepherd synergies, right? Let's increase our shepherd mindshare. You sure are pissy about people being 'office drones' for someone who talks like he was born in a copy room. Projecting much? [ Friday, November 03, 2006 21:32: Message edited by: The Worst Man Ever ] Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 4153
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written Saturday, November 4 2006 10:19
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quote:That one wasn't that difficult... So Rome = Death? :P -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 2836
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written Saturday, November 4 2006 12:27
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quote:Nah, I'm not a Buddhist. In that first case, yes, I would probably fight. But still, I wouldn't enjoy it. I also don't like getting into trouble, or getting shouted at or things like that. And anyway, the bullies at school stopped a while ago, so I don't have anything to worry about at the moment. Posts: 587 | Registered: Tuesday, April 1 2003 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 4153
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written Saturday, November 4 2006 12:33
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quote:Well, very few people enjoy being shouted at or getting into trouble... it's just that even fewer enjoy being bullied. -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 5360
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written Saturday, November 4 2006 17:39
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Gaaa. . . -X- has enough of this in real life. If these people posted here, -X- would give them a "Patrick" point in his Book. And as to the quote at the bottom of the page. . . -X- is sure that the alleged child either has no friends, or there are way to many wusses at that school. "I've witnessed enough near collisions". . . Honestly. -X- suspects that that person's child will be an agoraphobic. This reminds him of the movie "Bubble Boy". -X- is disgusted. [ Saturday, November 04, 2006 19:35: Message edited by: -X- ] -------------------- May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it. Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7472
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written Saturday, November 4 2006 18:09
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quote:Then why did you post here? quote:I found one near collision to be very helpful. It pulled my head out of the clouds, at any rate. Or, rather, two seventh graders ripped my head out of the clouds. quote:I'd argue with that, but it's probably true. Oh, and you put that apostrophe in the wrong place. :P -------------------- I tried to think of something witty to put here. Needless to say, I failed. Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 5410
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written Monday, November 6 2006 06:25
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that fishy fellow: quote:Sand packs down and becomes like concrete (no give left). That is why rubber pellets are replacing them. And rubber pellets have many more uses than mere kicking sand into an opponents eye, why the bigger ones fit nicely into slingshots and rubber band guns! -------------------- "Dikiyoba ... is demon ... drives people mad and ... do all sorts of strange things." "You Spiderwebbians are mad, mad, mad as March hares." Posts: 687 | Registered: Wednesday, January 19 2005 08:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Tuesday, November 7 2006 14:55
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quote:There are different types (grain sizes) of sand. I've never seen sand so fine in a playground that it compacts to that density. But then again, I don't hang out in playgrounds so much anymore. I'll stand by my statement though. Sand is the way to go for play surfaces. -------------------- quote: Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 5360
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written Tuesday, November 7 2006 15:52
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Given enough time, any grain size will compact. But -X- never had sand. No, no, no, -X- was never so lucky. -X- currrently has mulch laced with rocks. Woo-Hoo, fun. And that's better than last year. Solid asphalt parking lot. No markings, no toys, no balls, not even chalk. Just a parking lot. Hoo, boy, that's some fancy stuff right there! But -X- would prefer rubber mats to sand. It always gets in -X-'s socks for days afterward, and the teachers never let you go barefoot. -------------------- May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it. Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00 |