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The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #25
It just goes to show we need to start manufacturing more durable kids... :P

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #26
I do bike quite frequently, actually. There are no sidewalks most of the places I bike, but where there are I use them. Pedestrians are few and far between, and the sidewalks tend to be more even and less likely to kill me than the road. The law requires bikers to behave like motorists in many ways, but I'd rather break the law than get killed by the drivers who try to pass on my left when I am trying to make a left turn.

No, I'm not a pedestrian! Never!

I believe that as a biker I am entitled to run red lights at minor intersections and use the pedestrian walk lights as well as green lights to go. Yes, I am an aggressive bike driver. The only person I have ever run over, however, is myself. (I was trying to bike while carrying two large boxes. It was an unfortunate idea and I fell off in the middle of a busy street. Fortunately I was the only person who ran over me.)

—Alorael, who has limited playground memories. Most of his formative years of playing outside were actually spent in woods building very short log forts, stealing half-rotten boards and bits of carpet, and shouting. Shouting was very important. Nowadays that would probably be considered a terrible risk of infection or injury, but it sure was a lot of fun. He hasn't been back to that little strip of woods in years, but from the amount of construction that had begun in the area he's sure it's long gone.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
Profile #27
When I was a kid, we played cops and robbers or cowboys and indians with real BB guns. And shot each other. (No shooting in the face obcenity obcenity obcenity) We didn't wear helmets. If you did get banged up and had a cut or some road rash, you damn sure didn't do so much as sniffle or whine about it. Mom or dad would give you something to whine about, like a belt up along your backside. And then they would get the iodine to pour in to your cut. So if you did get horribly mutilated, you didn't dare say anything... You bit your lip and you stayed quiet about it. We played dodge ball and tether ball and did our best to give each other bloody noses and black eyes. We had hurts donuts and gave two for flinching. Only back in my day, two for flinching was usually a punch in the stomach followed by an uppercut to the jaw. And if you were dumb enough to fall for it, you deserved it and nobody felt sorry for you including the old hag that was the school nurse. "Next time don't flinch you big blubbering baby!" We would go around and ask "what is the capital of Thailand?" And then you would say "Bangkok" as you gave somebody a swift kick in the nuts. There was no running off and telling the teacher or an adult. You settled your scores like men. You'd either kick the crap out of somebody or you would be the person everybody else was beating the crap out of.

Those were unkind times, but they made hard men. Now, everybody is a bunch of pussified nancies.

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If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish.

Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish.
Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #28
quote:
Originally written by Delicious Vlish:

When I was a kid, we played cops and robbers or cowboys and indians with real BB guns and shot each other, (No shooting in the face obcenity obcenity obcenity) and we didn't wear helmets but if you did get banged up and had a cut or some road rash, you damn sure didn't do so much as sniffle or whine about it cuz Mom or Dad would give you something to whine about, like a belt up along your backside and then they would get the iodine to pour in to your cut, so if you did get horribly mutilated, you didn't dare say anything, you just bit your lip and you stayed quiet about it. We played dodge ball and tether ball and did our best to give each other bloody noses and black eyes and had hertz donuts and gave two for flinching, only back in my day, two for flinching was usually a punch in the stomach followed by an uppercut to the jaw and if you were dumb enough to fall for it, you deserved it and nobody felt sorry for you including the old hag that was the school nurse, who said "Next time don't flinch you big blubbering baby!" Then we would go around and ask "what is the capital of Thailand?" and then you would say "Bangkok" as you gave somebody a swift kick in the nuts, but there was no running off and telling the teacher or an adult; you settled your scores like men: either kick the crap out of somebody or you would be the person everybody else was beating the crap out of.

Those were unkind times, but they made hard men. Now, everybody is a bunch of pussified nancies.

Too many periods. FYT. :cool:

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quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

Well, I'm at least pretty sure that Salmon is losing.


Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 2836
Profile #29
quote:
Originally written by Delicious Vlish:

Now, everybody is a bunch of pussified nancies.
I disagree. Kids, even adults shouldn't be made to suffer pain (physical or emotional) without being able to put a stop to it if they can. They can live perfectly good lives without all that. 'Going all soft' isn't necessarily a bad thing.
And I'm speaking as a kid who has recieved plenty of bullying at school. There is no shame in telling somebody about it who can put a stop to it.

And anyway, if I had to put up with all that 'no flinching' stuff at school now, I'd have commited suicide within a week. And I'm serious about that.
Although I do agree banning Tag is going a bit far.

[ Wednesday, November 01, 2006 20:11: Message edited by: The Stew Boy ]
Posts: 587 | Registered: Tuesday, April 1 2003 08:00
His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
Profile #30
quote:
Originally written by The Stew Boy:

quote:
Originally written by Delicious Vlish:

Now, everybody is a bunch of pussified nancies.
I disagree. Kids, even adults shouldn't be made to suffer pain (physical or emotional) without being able to put a stop to it if they can. They can live perfectly good lives without all that. 'Going all soft' isn't necessarily a bad thing.
And I'm speaking as a kid who has recieved plenty of bullying at school. There is no shame in telling somebody about it who can put a stop to it.

And anyway, if I'd lived in those days, I'd never have survived a week at school. Although I do agree banning Tag is going a bit far.

And I strongly disagree. While I do not agree with bullies, I do not believe in mollycoddling a child. You let them take their lumps. None of this helicopter parent crap.

I was the kid that beat up the bullies in school. Fight back. Bullies can't bully others when you break their pinkies or smash their fingers repeatedly in a locker door. Humiliate them. Crush them. Grind them under your heel in public and let everybody see them for what they are. Cowards. If somebody jumped me, I'd never let it go unsettled. I'd come back with a bat or a tire iron if I had to.

Big difference between kids being kids and bullies being bullies... We would do the whole two for flinching thing as friends. Bloody noses were common and it was nothing personal. It was a safe way to learn how to fight, and fight well, and it was the duty of a good friend to exchange lumps. It was just what you did. You gave each other black eyes and fat lips and then you'd go and buy cokes for a nickle or a dime and sit back and laugh about it. And when the time came when it was the real thing, you knew what you were doing in a scrap. None of this sissy slap fighting.

Bare knuckle boxing was a popular school yard activity when I was a boy.

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If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish.

Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish.
Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 4826
Profile #31
quote:
Originally written by The Stew Boy:

quote:
Originally written by Delicious Vlish:

Now, everybody is a bunch of pussified nancies.
I disagree. Kids, even adults shouldn't be made to suffer pain (physical or emotional) without being able to put a stop to it if they can. They can live perfectly good lives without all that. 'Going all soft' isn't necessarily a bad thing.
And I'm speaking as a kid who has recieved plenty of bullying at school. There is no shame in telling somebody about it who can put a stop to it.

And anyway, if I had to put up with all that 'no flinching' stuff at school now, I'd have commited suicide within a week. And I'm serious about that.
Although I do agree banning Tag is going a bit far.

I agree with the Stew Boy. Being aggressive, manly, and tough doesn't mean that you are a decent person. I don't enjoy pain, and I've never understood the masochistic children who are always trying to inflict more pain upon themselves and others just to see if they can endure it.

And being a vlish is a certain advantage in those shooting games, no? Why didn't you cast terror on all the kids and be done with it?

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Bring back TM or [i]DIE.[/i]

To spread the hype, as well as cause your crush's name to appear on the screen, copy this into your signature.
Posts: 458 | Registered: Friday, August 6 2004 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 2836
Profile #32
quote:
Originally written by Delicious Vlish:


And I strongly disagree. While I do not agree with bullies, I do not believe in mollycoddling a child. You let them take their lumps. None of this helicopter parent crap.

I was the kid that beat up the bullies in school. Fight back. Bullies can't bully others when you break their pinkies or smash their fingers repeatedly in a locker door. Humiliate them. Crush them. Grind them under your heel in public and let everybody see them for what they are. Cowards. If somebody jumped me, I'd never let it go unsettled. I'd come back with a bat or a tire iron if I had to.

Big difference between kids being kids and bullies being bullies... We would do the whole two for flinching thing as friends. Bloody noses were common and it was nothing personal. It was a safe way to learn how to fight, and fight well, and it was the duty of a good friend to exchange lumps. It was just what you did. You gave each other black eyes and fat lips and then you'd go and buy cokes for a nickle or a dime and sit back and laugh about it. And when the time came when it was the real thing, you knew what you were doing in a scrap. None of this sissy slap fighting.

And so what if you were helpless against bullies? What if you could not do anything to fight them? Should you be made to suffer all that pain? It doesn't necessarily make you a better person, you know.
Believe me, it's not pleasant being bullied and not being able to fight back. You have to simply take it, and if you try to run away they just make fun of you.
Probably some people will say 'Just ignore it.' But believe me, that is a lot easier said than done. When you have persistent bullies, it really lowers your morale. Gradually, it becomes not "I don't know how to fight" but "I can't fight, I'm hopeless, they'll just keep doing this, I'd be better off dead."
That's pretty close to what I often felt a few years ago. It's good to be able to tell someone to let them stop it. And it DOES NOT necessarily make you a 'pussified nancy' at all.
Posts: 587 | Registered: Tuesday, April 1 2003 08:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #33
Time out.

The type of behavior advocated by DeVlish is that which leads to self-sufficiency, creative thinking, problem solving, and a host of other positive attributes which make you team leader.

The pussified nancies never get that self-confidence, and end up being team players, endlessly checking with each other to make sure they are doing the right thing, and not rocking the boat.

Obviously both types of people exist, DeVlish is pointing out that today's school environment is generating (or rewarding) fewer leaders and creating more slavish followers.

Time in.

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quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

Well, I'm at least pretty sure that Salmon is losing.


Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #34
quote:
I disagree. Kids, even adults shouldn't be made to suffer pain (physical or emotional) without being able to put a stop to it if they can. They can live perfectly good lives without all that. 'Going all soft' isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Prepare kids for the real world, shelter them from all hardship...

I think a little adversity is good for everyone. Now, of course, there are extremes where kids need to be protected, but you shouldn't wave a magic parent wand for every little thing. It fails to teach them to be self-reliant and how to handle problems.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 2836
Profile #35
quote:
Originally written by *i:

I think a little adversity is good for everyone.
Perhaps. But still, it's not enjoyable going through a period of bullying, especially if it lasts years. I know that from personal experience. And anyway, surely you can be prepared for the real world without all that?
Posts: 587 | Registered: Tuesday, April 1 2003 08:00
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #36
You could, I suppose, but I think it's better if you feel a mild to moderate amount of adversity. Fact is, there are many parts of life that are tough and not enjoyable.

If a kid is getting beat up every day, he needs to be helped. If he's being teased or people are stealing his football once in a while, then let him deal with it himself.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
Profile Homepage #37
quote:
Originally written by The Stew Boy:

And anyway, surely you can be prepared for the real world without all that?
Well, not all adversity falls into the category of bullying... but I think that some form of adversity is necessary to becoming a well-adjusted human being.

Basically, people who had perfect childhoods kind of scare me. :P

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Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice.

I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion.
Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 3171
Profile Homepage #38
In the few years since I left school things have gone overboard safety concious. I went there the other day to discover warning tape around all the trees and water tanks ffs. When I went there (which was only like four years ago) we were absolutely nuts. We had "Scrag" (Which by the sounds of it you guys didnt have) and "Beat The Crap Out Of Bullrush".

Scrag is a game where one person has the ball and everyone does their utmost to injure them until they conceed and someone else gets the ball then you try and injure them.

The bullrush game was played by a few people being in the middle of a football field and a few people being on the edge and when the people in the middle said go you had to run across the field and their job was to beat the crap out of you until you go there or until you gave up.

Another popular game was jumping of of 6 or so metre high trees into the one beside it (there was a large line of them) and see how far down the line you could get before you fell down and got the crap beaten out of you by branches.

We also had full school brawls and cage fights (by taking the two soccer goals and putting them together) but I think I've rambled enough for one post.

[ Wednesday, November 01, 2006 21:05: Message edited by: Kingy ]
Posts: 776 | Registered: Friday, July 4 2003 07:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #39
quote:
Originally written by Kingy:

In the few years since I left school things have gone overboard safety concious. I went there the other day to discover warning tape around all the trees and water tanks ffs. When I went there (which was only like four years ago) we were absolutely nuts. We had "Scrag" (Which by the sounds of it you guys didnt have) and "Beat The Crap Out Of Bullrush".

Scrag is a game where one person has the ball and everyone does their utmost to injure them until they conceed and someone else gets the ball then you try and injure them.

The bullrush game was played by a few people being in the middle of a football field and a few people being on the edge and when the people in the middle said go you had to run across the field and their job was to beat the crap out of you until you go there or until you gave up.

Another popular game was jumping of of 6 or so metre high trees into the one beside it (there was a large line of them) and see how far down the line you could get before you fell down and got the crap beaten out of you by branches.

We also had full school brawls and cage fights (by taking the two soccer goals and putting them together) but I think I've rambled enough for one post.

Quit bullying Stew Boy.

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quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

Well, I'm at least pretty sure that Salmon is losing.


Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #40
Well, you all know that I'm in favour of anything that causes children to suffer, but I'm surprised that other people agree with me for once.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #41
There is a difference between bullying and playing games where injuries can occur. Too much coddling results in people that are unprepared for the real world. There are complaints that the current generation leaving college want great rewards for little work. They've had it easy and are suprised that they can no longer get it.

Bullying needs to be stopped, otherwise you get people like George Bush in office that thinks he can bully everyone into following his orders. He did it to Congress and he tried it in Iraq.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #42
quote:
Originally written by Thuryl:

Well, you all know that I'm in favour of anything that causes children to suffer, but I'm surprised that other people agree with me for once.
It isn't so much that I favor anything that makes children suffer, it's that children need to suffer and survive adversity. Well, most need to survive. Well, at least enough to maintain a breeding population. I am deeply disappointed in myself if it does turn out we are in agreement. I'll suffer you to adopt a new attitude on the subject. ;)

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quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

Well, I'm at least pretty sure that Salmon is losing.


Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #43
Nah, we're not in agreement after all. I don't want any of 'em to survive.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
Profile #44
I, for one, am growing weary of the perfidious nanny-state saying our kids shouldn't be playing around sharp metal. In the good old days we got tetanus and we liked it!

With a few prominent exceptions, you're almost all whimsically ignorant. Your perception of your childhoods as a place of adventure was carefully cultivated by your parents, who, I would hope, took you outdoors and let you screw around, but watched you like freaking hawks. Children can't take care of themselves, and they're not even vaguely equipped to handle serious injury. (And for a kid any big injury is serious. They'll recover fairly fast, but they're liable to aggravate it by the fact they have fairly little tolerance for pain and freak out real easy.)

Whenever you tut-tut about safed-up playground equipment, realize it's been safed-up because some poor parent took their boy or girl out to have the adventurous fun of childhood and wound up months hence changing their diapers again.

As for all of the whinging about wood chips instead of cement: why the hell do you care? Your rosy perception of your childhood is informed by how you believe your life has degenerated since then. Getting a scraped knee hurts, but at least you're able to put it into context now. It can ruin a kid's entire day.

Thankfully, the protective instinct kicks in well enough when people actually have kids, and I imagine if you're in a position to none of you are going to be as horrifyingly negligent as you wish parents would be.
Nonetheless, take a step back and reassess how much of your beef with child-safing stems from warrantless nostalgia. Learning experience or no - and bear in mind that is not a context in which actual children even understand the experience - scraped knees and splintered asses are freaking painful.

And if you can tell me what, exactly, the kid I described earlier 'learned' from falling off of a jungle gym, by all means, I'd like to know.
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #45
They suck at staying on a jungle gym?

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quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

Well, I'm at least pretty sure that Salmon is losing.


Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #46
quote:
Originally written by Thuryl:

Nah, we're not in agreement after all. I don't want any of 'em to survive.
Specist!

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quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

Well, I'm at least pretty sure that Salmon is losing.


Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 2836
Profile #47
quote:
Originally written by Kingy:

In the few years since I left school things have gone overboard safety concious. I went there the other day to discover warning tape around all the trees and water tanks ffs. When I went there (which was only like four years ago) we were absolutely nuts. We had "Scrag" (Which by the sounds of it you guys didnt have) and "Beat The Crap Out Of Bullrush".

Scrag is a game where one person has the ball and everyone does their utmost to injure them until they conceed and someone else gets the ball then you try and injure them.

The bullrush game was played by a few people being in the middle of a football field and a few people being on the edge and when the people in the middle said go you had to run across the field and their job was to beat the crap out of you until you go there or until you gave up.

Another popular game was jumping of of 6 or so metre high trees into the one beside it (there was a large line of them) and see how far down the line you could get before you fell down and got the crap beaten out of you by branches.

We also had full school brawls and cage fights (by taking the two soccer goals and putting them together) but I think I've rambled enough for one post.

Sounds awful.

I guess over-coddling is bad, though. That usually produces spoiled brats.
Thuryl, I really hope you don't mean that seriously. Oh, and also, what do all of you mean by 'children'? 3-6 years old? 6-12 years old?
Posts: 587 | Registered: Tuesday, April 1 2003 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #48
Thank you Alec. That went some way toward restoring my faith in this board.

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Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #49
Stewie - Best not to ask Thuryl about such things. You don't want to know.

Children as defined in Vlish's post sound to be high school age (14-18). Not sure if anyone is using different numbers. I'm pleased that you understand the point of the comments, and your initial reaction was just that. Bullying, by nature, is abhorent. But what is also abhorent is the passive reception of bullying. I'd advocate boxing lessons, speed training, weapons training, anything, so that you can defend yourself against an unwarranted attack. Hell, even a warranted attack. That is what you can do to not be a pussified nancy, or whatever term was employed.

[i]Eye of the Tiger!!![/i]

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quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

Well, I'm at least pretty sure that Salmon is losing.


Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00

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