high arts
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Infiltrator
Member # 5410
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written Wednesday, October 11 2006 15:19
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I know this is old news, just wondering what the Spiders thot of this: All Things Considered, September 26, 2006 · One of the leading opera houses in Germany has cancelled a production because a scene that might offend Muslims could create a security threat. The production of the opera Idomeneo features a scene in which a character presents the severed heads of religious leaders -- including Jesus, the Buddha and Muhammad. The Deutsche Oper in Berlin said police had warned that staging the production could pose a security risk to the opera house, its employees and patrons. quoted from web news It would seem to potentially offend a lot of people but only a certain ideology posed a security threat. Too bad, as I understand it is a serious opera, not a farce...although the severed heads is an addition to the original opera. [ Wednesday, October 11, 2006 15:28: Message edited by: 2bit ] -------------------- "Dikiyoba ... is demon ... drives people mad and ... do all sorts of strange things." "You Spiderwebbians are mad, mad, mad as March hares." Posts: 687 | Registered: Wednesday, January 19 2005 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 27
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written Wednesday, October 11 2006 16:00
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Why inspire feelings of hate and resentment for the sake of entertainment? Posts: 1233 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Wednesday, October 11 2006 16:42
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Because religion is a serious topic, worthy of treatment in art, and it's pretty much impossible to bring up religion without getting some hate from someone? —Alorael, who admits that severed heads go beyond the usual level of hate-engendering. The principle stands anyway. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7420
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written Wednesday, October 11 2006 17:26
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Germany has a large and growing Turkish population. Muslims are simply less forgiving when it comes to beheading their prophet than, say, Buddhists. That is just how they are, so I can understand why they would consider it a security threat. The same can be said should this play have been done in Alabama, where the Christians would have been the security threat for defending their messiah. Edit: I’d like to see this play. Is it a comedy? [ Wednesday, October 11, 2006 17:33: Message edited by: Emperor Tullegolar ] -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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By Committee
Member # 4233
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written Wednesday, October 11 2006 18:18
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Hey now - don't go denegrating the South just because of some wayward yokels. Every state has its wackos - sometimes you just have to go further afield to find them. Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 2476
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written Wednesday, October 11 2006 18:57
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quote:'Idomeneo' is a Mozart opera and a socalled 'opera seria', meaning a serious or tragic piece. It deals with the relation of gods and men. The severed heads are not part of the opera's libretto, they were added as part of the stage producer's (Hans Neuenfels) interpretation of it. I wonder though. Will we ever see Richard Strauss' 'Salome' on german stages again? Where Salome dances an ecstatic and very erotic dance with John the Baptist's severed head? [ Wednesday, October 11, 2006 19:05: Message edited by: ef ] -------------------- Polaris Rache's A3 Site reformatted 2/3 done Rache's A3 Site, original version Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7420
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written Wednesday, October 11 2006 19:59
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ef: I still think it sounds hilarious. Relations between gods and men always ends up in hysterical situations. Drew: Was I degenerating Germany when I said they had a large Turkish population? No. Then why would you say I was degenerating the South just because they have a large wayward yokel population? -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Wednesday, October 11 2006 20:06
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He said denegrating and meant denigrating. That's really a spelling you want to get right. —Alorael, who considered a pun and then decided that he'd better refrain. It's enough to get one ejected from positions of very minor political power. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Wednesday, October 11 2006 21:16
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There was a similar problem in France a few years ago before the Danish cartoon incident. A town was putting on a Moliere comedy where Islam was being used to parody a similar idea in Christianity that couldn't be addressed directly. The Muslim population tried to block the play and failed. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 3364
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written Thursday, October 12 2006 05:18
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quote:Eew! An 'erotic' dance with a severed head, no matter whose severed head it is, does not sound erotic to me at all. -------------------- "Even the worst Terror from Hell can be transformed to a testimony from Heaven!" - Rev. David Wood 6\23\05 "Do all the good you can, by all the means you can, in all the ways you can, in all the places you can, at all the times you can, to all the people you can, as long as you ever can." - John Wesley Posts: 1001 | Registered: Tuesday, August 19 2003 07:00 |
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By Committee
Member # 4233
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written Thursday, October 12 2006 05:43
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It was a simple misspelling which otherwise doesn't carry any meaning, and certainly wasn't intended to mean the one you inferred, Alo. Phew! "Turkish" is an objective designation of nationality. Categorizing the population of the State of Alabama as a bunch of religious zealots is rather more subjective. EDIT: I also don't think the same could be said if such a performance was put on in Alabama. To my knowledge, there has been no Christian security threat within the US for any artistic performance or display they may find offensive. They may protest, and that's within their rights. Nevertheless, I would posit that a respect for free speech is strongly ingrained in most Americans, whatever their religion, and they know where to draw the line. [ Thursday, October 12, 2006 05:51: Message edited by: Drew ] Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 5410
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written Thursday, October 12 2006 06:19
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Note that not all Muslim groups agreed with the ban. Many moderate liberal groups urged (too strong a word) that it be produced. And yes, the severed heads of the deities was not parto f Mozart's original so it is likely that a different interpretation of the work would have gone ahead. Note 2. Here in Canada a moderate Muslim group is seeking to have the terms "anti-islam" and "apostate" declared a hate crime. Seems in the Muslim community such terms can be interpreted as thinly veiled death threats. free press news clip -------------------- "Dikiyoba ... is demon ... drives people mad and ... do all sorts of strange things." "You Spiderwebbians are mad, mad, mad as March hares." Posts: 687 | Registered: Wednesday, January 19 2005 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
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written Thursday, October 12 2006 08:18
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Unless there's something I'm missing here, I'm going to be uncharacteristic and say the worry about offending is unreasonable. I'm of the opinion anti-Islamicism (like anti-Catholicism in England and, to a lesser extent, here) is almost exclusively not based on contempt for the religion (which it does sorta deserve) but for the people who follow it (who do not). I have no problem with something being anti-Islam, because Islam is as ridiculous as any other religion. I do have a problem with things being anti-Muslim, and that seems to be the way the wind has been blowing in Europe. :( [ Thursday, October 12, 2006 08:19: Message edited by: The Worst Man Ever ] Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7420
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written Thursday, October 12 2006 13:05
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The South has artistic performances? That's news to me. Fanatical Christians most certainly are a security threat. Just ask Larry Flint, poor bastard. He makes so many people all over the country happy every single day and what thanks does he get? Paralysis from the waist down. The irony is sharp enough to break skin. -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Thursday, October 12 2006 13:30
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If you thought this was ridiculous, wait until you see the story about Apple's store in NY (a being considered too similar to the Kaaba. After all, both are vaguely cuboid.  (Never mind the sign, it's from another article on the Register.)  The resemblance is uncanny. And they probably drink booze and eat pigs in there too. —ing Anti-Islamic Westerners. :P -------------------- Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum] My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast. Polaris is dead, long live Polaris. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 27
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written Thursday, October 12 2006 13:44
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quote:No. In fact, all of Southern USA looks like it was ripped right out of "Deliverance." The only difference between us and the movie is that we eat rocks. Posts: 1233 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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By Committee
Member # 4233
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written Thursday, October 12 2006 14:33
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quote:You are the reason liberals lose elections. [ Thursday, October 12, 2006 14:34: Message edited by: Drew ] Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7420
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written Thursday, October 12 2006 15:42
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quote:Ah, yes, my plan is working. What? You didn't think conservatives could make South jokes? Now, if you'll excuse me, I must make my yearly pilgrimage to the New York Mac Store. Praise Jobs! -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 73
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written Thursday, October 12 2006 16:16
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 -------------------- My Myspace, with some of my audial and visual art The Lyceum - The Headquarters of the Blades designing community The Louvre - The Blades of Avernum graphics database Alexandria - The Blades of Exile Scenario database BoE Webring - Self explanatory Polaris - Free porn here Odd Todd - Fun for the unemployed (and everyone else too) They Might Be Giants - Four websites for one of the greatest bands in existance -------------------- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Too Sexy for my Title
Member # 5654
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written Thursday, October 12 2006 16:30
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quote:I went to the opening of that store. They had a huge sale, and it is gorgeous inside. [/useless information] [ Thursday, October 12, 2006 17:11: Message edited by: Lenny ] Posts: 1035 | Registered: Friday, April 1 2005 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 5410
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written Thursday, October 12 2006 16:50
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 -------------------- "Dikiyoba ... is demon ... drives people mad and ... do all sorts of strange things." "You Spiderwebbians are mad, mad, mad as March hares." Posts: 687 | Registered: Wednesday, January 19 2005 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7420
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written Thursday, October 12 2006 16:58
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quote:Would we see you if we scrolled through the time lapse? Ali/Foreman: Some kind of inside joke I'm missing? -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Too Sexy for my Title
Member # 5654
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written Thursday, October 12 2006 17:14
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quote:huh?, I'm referring to the Apple store on Fith Ave. It just opened a couple of months ago, around May or June. [ Thursday, October 12, 2006 17:20: Message edited by: Lenny ] Posts: 1035 | Registered: Friday, April 1 2005 08:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Thursday, October 12 2006 20:17
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The image indicates that there's a time-lapse movie associated with it, a movie of 24 hours. He was asking if you went to the store during the 24 hours that it was filmed. I'm guessing no. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
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written Thursday, October 12 2006 22:34
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quote:Funny - seems to me they tend to lose in the primaries nowadays. I wonder whose fault that might be. Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00 |
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