Which game to get?

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AuthorTopic: Which game to get?
Apprentice
Member # 7308
Profile #0
Hi everyone,

I'm looking to buy one of 2 games from Spiderwebs Catalogue of games.

Its either Avernum 4 or Geneforge 3.

I've played demos of both and cant decide which ultimately is the more desirable game.

I'd be interested to hear what other users have thought of both and which they would recommend and why.

Couple questions aswell...

1) Avernum 4 gives you a party of 4 people. Can you play it successfully with only one character? Can you get any more than 4 people in a party (npc helpers, pets etc) ?

2) Geneforge seems to be the opposite and its a single party member plus any pets he creates. Is that correct, or do you indeed get permanent companions (not the one that joins in the starter dungeon, dont think she is permanent..) join at some point?

Thanks for any replies.
:)
Posts: 8 | Registered: Monday, July 17 2006 07:00
Warrior
Member # 7195
Profile #1
HI!

From your post it deducted you havent't played any pevious A or G games, have you? If that's so, it would perhaps be better to start from the beginning ...
In Geneforge you can indeed get one or more permanent companions - from the very beginning on. But also the creations you create stay with you for as long as you like - or for as long as your enemies let you that is. :)
In A4 as far as i know you can't get anyone to join you, as you could in the previous games, but you can play with any number of characters from 1 to 4. I usually play with four, but a lot seem to play with only one - although i haven't heard anyone say they tried with 2 or 3 ... so you can maybe be the first.
In my opinion i liked G3 a little better, for the creations and more spells, but that's just me.

Hope to help you a bit.

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Posts: 185 | Registered: Sunday, June 4 2006 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 5132
Profile Homepage #2
I hate to say it, but the general consensus of the community is that G3 and A4 are Spiderweb's worst two games. Then again, I've never played either of them, so I can't really judge here.

I can give you my choices for better games, but based on your post, I'm not sure you'd want them. And if you've tried other demos and like G3 and A4 demos best, no one can stop you from liking them.

[ Monday, July 17, 2006 03:04: Message edited by: BainIhrno ]

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Posts: 626 | Registered: Monday, October 25 2004 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 7308
Profile #3
Thanks for the replies.

You are indeed correct in saying that ive never played any of Jeff Vogels previous titles.

I thought i would start with his latest 2, because usually thats the best version. (designers usually having found out what people want in the previous versions, and what people dont)

However, i am open to suggestions if you feel that other versions of Avernum or geneforge are better.

I would like to know why they are considered better though aswell.
Posts: 8 | Registered: Monday, July 17 2006 07:00
Shaper
Member # 32
Profile #4
Exile II/Avernum 2, although I would rather play the former, many think the latter is better.

[ Monday, July 17, 2006 03:27: Message edited by: Lt. Sullust ]

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Lt. Sullust
Cogito Ergo Sum
Polaris
Posts: 2462 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 6403
Profile #5
A2, Nethergate, G1, BoE.

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??? ??????
???? ?????
Posts: 883 | Registered: Wednesday, October 19 2005 07:00
Warrior
Member # 7195
Profile #6
Well, speaking of previous/latter games ...
Avernums and Genforges are first of all like series - while not actually needed it can be fun to play from the beginning and see how the world and certain characters evolve through.

At avernum, i would say that the first one is probably the best, maybe to to the originality, for at later games, not that they repeat, not at all, but still, there is something - maybe it's just that avernum is a nation and in the first one the world was very open and unsettled (by civilisation) and the nation wasn't so far established yet. But still A2 was terrific, to say the least, but A3, well, its concept for me was very good, but it got boring all too quickly ...
A4 is a game many found the worst of the series and spiderweb ones as well, but i found it somewhat cool - at least better that the third one, although it is quite a short game.

Now geneforge, the first one was cute - for me at least (i played little games before spiderweb ones (actually just albion from rpgs)), a refreshing game, with creations and morality and all.
But here, the second game for me was THE game of spiderweb ones. In my oppinion that was to show how a second part of a nice game should look like - new creations, spells (and A LOT of them), etc.
While the number three introduced traders with unlimited money and infinite "space", thus eliminating a problem with having to search a certain shopkeeper, but still removing the realism, it in my oppinion didn't bring an improvement - G4 is said to do so and I'M LOOKING FORWARD VERY MUCH TO IT!!!!

So in my oppinion, the previous games in the series were better, although that's just me - i'd suggest you play the demos to all and see!

And don't forget to look at the very close to unlimited fun, the blades versions bring!!!!!!

EDIT: Maybe the fact that A3 got too boring for me and all issues concerning Avernum games in general, was that it is actually a remake Exile triology, which in my oppinion was even better - but that's just maybe because it was the first two games (E2 and E1) that i played.

[ Monday, July 17, 2006 04:17: Message edited by: Anarhiztok ]

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I don't care what you say, I'm punk and Hardcore all the way!
Posts: 185 | Registered: Sunday, June 4 2006 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
Profile Homepage #7
quote:
Originally written by rumtruffle:

I thought i would start with his latest 2, because usually thats the best version. (designers usually having found out what people want in the previous versions, and what people dont)
Normally, this would be correct, but Jeff recently switched the Avernum series over to a new engine that's... well, it's almost the same as Geneforge's engine. So A4 was/is still working out the kinks of that change. It's good, but not the best.

I echo the sentiments of others when I say "Play Avernum 2!"

(And I have no experience with Geneforge, so I shouldn't give advice about it)

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Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Agent
Member # 6581
Profile Homepage #8
G2, A3, Nethergate.

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Download Geneforge 4: Rebellion

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Posts: 1310 | Registered: Tuesday, December 20 2005 08:00
Master
Member # 5977
Profile Homepage #9
Avernum 1 or Avernum 3. I didn't really like Avernum, as I felt completely lost after coming back from the vahnatai lands (you'll find out what that is if you play the demo). Avernum 1 was a lot of running, but I enjoyed seeing how Avernum looked like, how the people are, that sort of thing. Avernum 3 I liked because I could beat up the vahnatai, which i now ultimately hate.

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Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Warrior
Member # 7305
Profile #10
I love Avernum 1 to 3, to Blades of Avernum.

Avernum 4 is a complete and utter disaster as it lacks diversity, lacks actual roleplaying nature, and it all got stuffed with eye candy to try and make up for it.

You can't even play it in a window.

[ Monday, July 17, 2006 05:57: Message edited by: Nepharim ]
Posts: 53 | Registered: Saturday, July 15 2006 07:00
Agent
Member # 6581
Profile Homepage #11
Download all demos, and try all. That is.

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Download Geneforge 4: Rebellion

You have 6 posts. Nobody cares what you think. - Thuryl

Wikipedia may be your friend, but UBB is not. - Dikiyoba
Posts: 1310 | Registered: Tuesday, December 20 2005 08:00
Law Bringer
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Posts: 1556 | Registered: Sunday, November 20 2005 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 5132
Profile Homepage #13
Okay, my recommendations:

Blades of Exile (Best game ever!)
SubTerra (if you have Windows, Mac users can't play this)
Exile III: Ruined World (note that my thinking that this game is good is an unpopular opinion)
Avernum 2 (I've never been one for Avernum, but I managed to like this somehow)

I'm planning to try the demos of Nethergate and Geneforge 1 in the future after hearing all the praise for them.

[ Monday, July 17, 2006 08:25: Message edited by: BainIhrno ]

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Visit my realm!

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Posts: 626 | Registered: Monday, October 25 2004 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 6136
Profile #14
You should play Avernum 2, then A3.
The best Geneforge game in my opinion is G3 but G2 is quite good, i don't like them very much though, not as much as avernum.
After sometime playing avernum you maybe will eventually want to play Exile, wich is a must if you wan to say that you are a Spiderweb games fan , at least in this forums...
One thing to consider: all of us, the older players always like the avernum and exile series, but the new players seem to just like A4 (that sucks compared to previous Avernum and Exile games) and G3.
Posts: 446 | Registered: Friday, July 22 2005 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 7308
Profile #15
wow, thanks for all the info and advice.

When people say Avernum 4 isnt as big a game, is that relative?

(EG. Avernum 1,2,3 were games bigger than big things expanded in a 'Make it BIG' machine... and Avernum 4 is still bigger than most big things that have been hit with the BIG stick.)
Posts: 8 | Registered: Monday, July 17 2006 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 6136
Profile #16
You mean Big in "Great!!!" or big in, "damn this game is so damn long"?
In the first case, it's not relative, it just isn't very good as the other games.
In second case, the game is quite short.
And I don't understand very well the last part of your message, remember the foreign poster please!!!
Posts: 446 | Registered: Friday, July 22 2005 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 7308
Profile #17
i meant 'big' as in really big world to explore, and a long quest.

sounds like it isnt. but just how short is short?

im thinking 8 hours to complete the game (without exploring everywhere, lvling up etc) or is short in avernum terms still about 40 hours of gameplay to finish the quest?
Posts: 8 | Registered: Monday, July 17 2006 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #18
Get the demos. They really tell you what you need to know, especially about engines.

If you like the Exile engine, be aware that Exile 1 shows its age and Exile 2 is also a bit cruder. Exile 3 and Blades of Exile are both nice.

All the Avernums are solid, although A1 has no quest log. A2 is generally considered to have the strongest plot, but A1 is the beginning and introduces the world of Avernum. A3 is unquestionably the largest and has more stuff, but the plot itself is simple. It's still fun!

If you like the Avernum engine, Nethergate has the same engine (nearly) and has the best plot of any Spiderweb game. It's got woad! It's got bloody sacrifices! It's got madcap faerie critters! Try it. It also has two separate plots to follow depending on your party type, and they're very cleverly intertwined.

I am not a big Geneforge fan, so I'll leave that to those who know.

Blades of Exile and Blades of Avernum are both games that you can't get a good sense of from the demo. The real selling point is the ability to play scenarios made by anyone and everyone. Blades of Exile has a huge repertoire of extremely good scenarios, so if you like the E3/BoE engine you should strongly consider buying it. It's also got a very easy to use scenario editor if you want to make your own. Blades of Avernum is newer and harder to use, so it has fewer scenarios.

—Alorael, who doesn't think Spiderweb games tend towards 8 hours, but they're also not 40 hours. Maybe 20 is closer. It depends on how much of the not technically necessary but rather important things you do. Avernum 4 is on the shorter end of the spectrum, but that's not a problem per se. Nethergate is short too and it's wonderful.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #19
I was looking back through save threads and Delcious Vlish was running a duo in A4. There were several singletons in A4 just to prove it was possible.

My favorites were Exile/Avernum2 for the great plot and decent game engines. I prefer Geneforge 3 over 2 because the game interface improved and the daze spell is now for multiple targets. I'm starting Nethergate and like the spell system better than any of the others. It's even fun as a singleton,
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
Profile Homepage #20
BoE is best, by far.

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Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 3171
Profile Homepage #21
A2, A1, Nethergate. Just suck it in and buy all 3. You wont be disapointed.
Posts: 776 | Registered: Friday, July 4 2003 07:00
Warrior
Member # 7195
Profile #22
Another thing. In the geneforge series and a4 there is yet another GREAT thing.
A lot of scripts come along with a game - these scripts you can edit.
For example if you replay a game, you can customise items, abilities, spell/item cost etc.

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I don't care what you say, I'm punk and Hardcore all the way!
Posts: 185 | Registered: Sunday, June 4 2006 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 7308
Profile #23
thanks for all the advice.

i seems that avernum is the series that im having most doubts about.
(simply do not know which to get. tried A3, but didnt like the controls as much as A4)

so with that in mind i ordered Geneforge 3 because it seems the least bone of contention amongst users.
(Just waiting to get my activation key before i play)

I'll wait until ive played G3 enough to get another game. Having explored some of the other demos by then.
(people seem to generally rate Nethergate highly so im drawn towards it)

i do as many side quests as i can before getting bored of lvling. so hopefully doing so will lengthen the game.

Thanks for all the replies.
Posts: 8 | Registered: Monday, July 17 2006 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 7308
Profile #24
does anyone know if vogel and family/co-workers have gone or holiday or something?

its been over 24 hours now and ive not got any emails whatsoever and no response to emails sent.
Posts: 8 | Registered: Monday, July 17 2006 07:00

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