Israel - Lebanon conflict

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AuthorTopic: Israel - Lebanon conflict
Shaper
Member # 5450
Profile Homepage #0
Lebanese Fear Israeli offensive

Infernal? You're there, aren't you?

Discuss.

[ Thursday, July 13, 2006 12:54: Message edited by: Spring ]

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I'll put a Spring in your step.
:ph34r:
Posts: 2396 | Registered: Saturday, January 29 2005 08:00
Agent
Member # 5814
Profile #1
Ah, the Israelis. They just keep on fighting, no matter who or what their enemy.

I haven't been keeping up with the Israel-centric news; I've been more interested in the threats to and possibly from Iran. So I'd like to point out right now that I know very little about Lebanese history and their past infractions against Israel.

Based on the article, it seems that Israel has caused more than two deaths with their attacks on civilian buildings, such as the airport. If so, I would like someone to explain to me why innocent Lebanese civilian lives are worth less than Israeli soldier lives.

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quote:
Originally written by Kelandon
Well, I'm at least pretty

Posts: 1115 | Registered: Sunday, May 15 2005 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
Profile #2
Strange... kill people and no one invades.

But threaten to kill people, which logically should be less severe, and all hell is loose.

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
Profile #3
quote:
Originally written by Spring:

Lebanese Fear Israeli offensive

Infernal? You're there, aren't you?

Discuss.

Infernal isn't in Lebanon any more than you are, but thank you for giving her a pedestal on which to bloviate.
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
Profile Homepage #4
I am wondering how USA, Canada, or whatever country you are from, would react to rockets fired at its border towns and an attack against border guards. (I have hard time imagining US shrugging off a barrage of Katusha rockets launched at San Diego suburbs followed by an attack against border guards.)

An attack like the one Hezbolla launched would be considered a start of war if it was directed against any other country in the world.

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Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 6454
Profile #5
I' m from Italy and i don' t think that my country will be attacked from Katusha rockets as my country is not illegally occupying palestine

[ Thursday, July 13, 2006 15:25: Message edited by: ubik ]

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"Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons."
Popular Mechanics, 1949
Posts: 12 | Registered: Saturday, November 5 2005 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
Profile #6
quote:
Originally written by Zeviz:

I am wondering how USA, Canada, or whatever country you are from, would react to rockets fired at its border towns and an attack against border guards. (I have hard time imagining US shrugging off a barrage of Katusha rockets launched at San Diego suburbs followed by an attack against border guards.)

An attack like the one Hezbolla launched would be considered a start of war if it was directed against any other country in the world.

You'd say the same thing if the Israeli response had been a nuclear attack on Beirut, Zeviz.
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
Profile Homepage #7
quote:
Originally written by The Worst Man Ever:

quote:
Originally written by Zeviz:

I am wondering how USA, Canada, or whatever country you are from, would react to rockets fired at its border towns and an attack against border guards. (I have hard time imagining US shrugging off a barrage of Katusha rockets launched at San Diego suburbs followed by an attack against border guards.)

An attack like the one Hezbolla launched would be considered a start of war if it was directed against any other country in the world.

You'd say the same thing if the Israeli response had been a nuclear attack on Beirut, Zeviz.

You'd say the same think if Hezbolla had nuked Tel-Aviv, Alec.

Now that we've gotten that out of the way, I'd like to hear the answer to my question: What would USA do in response to a rocket attack against San Diego suburbs followed by an attack against its border guards?

[ Thursday, July 13, 2006 15:44: Message edited by: Zeviz ]

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Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Shaper
Member # 32
Profile #8
Institute a regime change :rolleyes:

At any rate, that still doesn't justify the action taken.

[ Thursday, July 13, 2006 15:42: Message edited by: Lt. Sullust ]

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Lt. Sullust
Cogito Ergo Sum
Polaris
Posts: 2462 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Agent
Member # 5814
Profile #9
quote:
Originally written by Zeviz:

I am wondering how USA, Canada, or whatever country you are from, would react to rockets fired at its border towns and an attack against border guards. (I have hard time imagining US shrugging off a barrage of Katusha rockets launched at San Diego suburbs followed by an attack against border guards.)

An attack like the one Hezbolla launched would be considered a start of war if it was directed against any other country in the world.

So an attack from a government is considered justification for bombing its citizens?

That would be like holding Iraq responsible for Saddam's attacks on various countries, or America for George Bush's attack on Iraq.

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quote:
Originally written by Kelandon
Well, I'm at least pretty

Posts: 1115 | Registered: Sunday, May 15 2005 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 6454
Profile #10
quote:
Originally written by Zeviz:

You'd say the same think if Hezbolla had nuked Tel-Aviv, Alec.

Impossible. Only Israel have nucler weapons in that area

[ Thursday, July 13, 2006 15:57: Message edited by: ubik ]

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"Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons."
Popular Mechanics, 1949
Posts: 12 | Registered: Saturday, November 5 2005 08:00
Shaper
Member # 32
Profile #11
quote:
Originally written by ubik:

quote:
Originally written by Zeviz:

You'd say the same think if Hezbolla had nuked Tel-Aviv, Alec.

Impossible. Only Israel have nucler weapons in that area

I believe you missed the point of Zeviz's post.

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Lt. Sullust
Cogito Ergo Sum
Polaris
Posts: 2462 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
Profile #12
quote:
Originally written by Zeviz:

quote:
Originally written by The Worst Man Ever:

quote:
Originally written by Zeviz:

I am wondering how USA, Canada, or whatever country you are from, would react to rockets fired at its border towns and an attack against border guards. (I have hard time imagining US shrugging off a barrage of Katusha rockets launched at San Diego suburbs followed by an attack against border guards.)

An attack like the one Hezbolla launched would be considered a start of war if it was directed against any other country in the world.

You'd say the same thing if the Israeli response had been a nuclear attack on Beirut, Zeviz.

You'd say the same think if Hezbolla had nuked Tel-Aviv, Alec.

Now that we've gotten that out of the way, I'd like to hear the answer to my question: What would USA do in response to a rocket attack against San Diego suburbs followed by an attack against its border guards?

Did Lebanon attack Israel? Why are its citizens being killed?

EDIT: These are two separate questions, in case it's not obvious, and the second is more important.

[ Thursday, July 13, 2006 16:52: Message edited by: The Worst Man Ever ]
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 6700
Profile Homepage #13
The Israeli government is currently taking the stance that if Lebanon is not making any effort to curb Hezbollah, then Lebanon is condoning Hezbollah.

It would appear that Israel gave a clear warning of its impending actions to both government and civilians.

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The Silent Assassin somehow managed to caulk himself to one of our topside windows.
I don't want to know...

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-Lenar Labs
What's Your Destiny?

Ushmushmeifa: Lenar's power is almighty and ineffable.

All hail lord Noric, god of... well, something important, I'm sure.
Posts: 735 | Registered: Monday, January 16 2006 08:00
By Committee
Member # 4233
Profile #14
The US would drop the hammer on whoever is within proximity of those thought responsible. No one, for that reason, who has any value for their lives, would actually stage a direct skirmish-style attack on our borders. Even after way-indirect 9/11, we still pancaked a lot of Afghanistan.

Not that it's a good thing, but that's probably what would happen.

I think it's fair to say that Israel's nerves may be a little raw. However, that doesn't justify the extent of the response, which really creates no incentive for the Lebanese government to try to fix things, especially considering that the Lebanese government may truly not have the means to curb Hezbollah anyway. :(

[ Thursday, July 13, 2006 17:21: Message edited by: Drew ]
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #15
Almost any other country would have invaded for a lot less. How would you feel about being attacked by someone who says they want to kill you?

The US invaded Mexico in pursuit of Pancho Villa (bandit) when he attacked people in the Southwest. In order to stop the pirates in Tripoli the US sent the marines instead of paying the off. Iraq invaded Kuwait because it claimed the land was part of Iraq. Iran and Iraq fought for 10 years over their border.

Lebanon refused to disarm Hezbollah as required by UN resolutions regarding militias operating in the country. Instead they renamed them a resistance faction and allowed them to run the southern part of the country and attack Israel.

Both the Palestinian attack from Gaza and the recent Hezbollah attacks were planned months in advanced and not spontaneous responses to Israeli actions as propagandists had claimed. You see how long it takes to dig a 700 yard tunnel.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
Profile Homepage #16
1. Hezbolla is currently targeting Israeli homes. Israel is targeting Lebanese bridges and airport. I agree that targetting civillian infrustructure is bad, but is it as bad as targeting homes?

2. Hezbolla was the one who launched the first attack.

So why are Hezbolla's attacks against civilian houses criticised less than Israeli attacks against dual use infrastructure used by Hezbolla?

[ Thursday, July 13, 2006 17:59: Message edited by: Zeviz ]

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Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
Profile #17
I did not ask you why Israel is killing civilians; that much is obvious. I asked you why civilians are dying here.

What will the civilian deaths in Lebanon accomplish?
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
Profile Homepage #18
quote:
Originally written by The Worst Man Ever:

I did not ask you why Israel is killing civilians; that much is obvious. I asked you why civilians are dying here.

What will the civilian deaths in Lebanon accomplish?

1. If you don't know a difference between a bridge and a home, I am not sure how we can continue this discussion.

2. If you do know the difference, the answer to your question is obvious: Hezbolla's attacks against Israeli houses are trying to kill as many civillians as possible. Israel's attacks against bridges and airport are trying to stop Hezbolla from moving supplies and reinforcements.

3. You still haven't answered my question: how would you respond to rockets falling on American border towns?

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Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Agent
Member # 5814
Profile #19
quote:
Originally written by Zeviz:

1. Hezbolla is currently targeting Israeli homes. Israel is targeting Lebanese bridges and airport. I agree that targetting civillian infrustructure is bad, but is it as bad as targeting homes?

2. Hezbolla was the one who launched the first attack.

So why are Hezbolla's attacks against civilian houses criticised less than Israeli attacks against dual use infrastructure used by Hezbolla?

Because everyone is against Hezbollah, while not everyone agrees about Israel.

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quote:
Originally written by Kelandon
Well, I'm at least pretty

Posts: 1115 | Registered: Sunday, May 15 2005 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #20
[QUOTE] Originally written by The Worst Man Ever:
I did not ask you why Israel is killing civilians; that much is obvious. I asked you why civilians are dying here.

What will the civilian deaths in Lebanon accomplish?[QUOTE]

The civilian deaths in Lebanon are collateral damage from attacks against military targets. Hamas and Hezbollah are deliberately targetting civilians. One is accidental and the other is premeditated, Does that help?

Maybe Lebanon will finally get rid of terrorist groups that it harbors. It took them long enough to force Syria out after it occupied them during the first Gulf War.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 3441
Profile Homepage #21
quote:
Because everyone is against Hezbollah, while not everyone agrees about Israel.
Funny, considering Hezbollah got those rockets from Iran. Both Iran and Syria have a long history of supporting Hezbollah.

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"As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it." --Albert Einstein
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Posts: 536 | Registered: Sunday, September 7 2003 07:00
Agent
Member # 5814
Profile #22
quote:
Originally written by WiKiSpidweb:

quote:
Because everyone is against Hezbollah, while not everyone agrees about Israel.
Funny, considering Hezbollah got those rockets from Iran. Both Iran and Syria have a long history of supporting Hezbollah.

I was talking about the people in this thread who were arguing.

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quote:
Originally written by Kelandon
Well, I'm at least pretty

Posts: 1115 | Registered: Sunday, May 15 2005 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
Profile #23
quote:
Originally written by Zeviz:

quote:
Originally written by The Worst Man Ever:

I did not ask you why Israel is killing civilians; that much is obvious. I asked you why civilians are dying here.

What will the civilian deaths in Lebanon accomplish?

1. If you don't know a difference between a bridge and a home, I am not sure how we can continue this discussion.

2. If you do know the difference, the answer to your question is obvious: Hezbolla's attacks against Israeli houses are trying to kill as many civillians as possible. Israel's attacks against bridges and airport are trying to stop Hezbolla from moving supplies and reinforcements.

3. You still haven't answered my question: how would you respond to rockets falling on American border towns?

Once more, I do know the difference between a bridge and a house, and I did not ask why Israel is bombing Lebanon. However, I wish to set aside the moral king of the hill these things always degenerate into for a moment.

To answer your question, because you asked it first: I would not.

Now please answer mine. What are the innocent deaths accomplishing? Why are the civilians dying?

[ Thursday, July 13, 2006 19:08: Message edited by: The Worst Man Ever ]
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #24
Civilians are dying because Israel is unable to not respond to an attack by what is, in a very real sense, Lebanon. Not Lebanese civilians, of course, but Israel does what it can.

That does not make it right. However, failure on the part of Israel to use extreme force would result in one or possibly both of two results: Israel's government would be rapidly replaced by those willing to exercise force, and Israel would be subjected to further attacks by those who see that Israel has become a bunch of sissies.

Does this make sense? No. We live in an insane, insensitive, realpolitiking world.

—Alorael, who doesn't think Israel is right. He also cannot think of any more constructive action for Israel to take. Maybe more effort could be put into minimizing civilian losses, but when you get down to it Israel is busily reducing to gravel facilities that people in no way tied to Hezbollah depend on. I doubt Israel is happy about it either.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00

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