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AuthorTopic: Montauk Project
BANNED
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After recent intrest, I was reading about the Philidelphia Experiments, and the Montauk Project/Project Rainbow. You can read up on it here, though Wikipedia isn't all that reliable, what are your views on this, and is it possible?

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I am an idiot.
Posts: 775 | Registered: Friday, October 11 2002 07:00
Warrior
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Profile #1
quote:
Originally written by Yours Sincerely, The Boogyman.:

After recent intrest, I was reading about the Philidelphia Experiments, and the Montauk Project/Project Rainbow.

... and is it possible?

It is neither possible nor plausible.
Posts: 66 | Registered: Sunday, May 28 2006 07:00
Agent
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I agreed.

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Download Geneforge 4: Rebellion

You have 6 posts. Nobody cares what you think. - Thuryl

Wikipedia may be your friend, but UBB is not. - Dikiyoba
Posts: 1310 | Registered: Tuesday, December 20 2005 08:00
Warrior
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Sounds like a good plot device for a Steven King novel.

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Polaris

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.
- H.P. Lovecraft
Posts: 164 | Registered: Wednesday, June 14 2006 07:00
Law Bringer
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Um... that stuff is bogus. It sounds like a dumping ground for every urban legend in the country...

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Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice.

I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion.
Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #5
It also sounds like a certain Preston B Nichols may have gained financially from the promotion of this hoax.

Why do people insist on believing the improbable, impossible, and unlikely??? Is it some form of faith?

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quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

Well, I'm at least pretty sure that Salmon is losing.


Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
By Committee
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I reckon it's just a part of a subconscious desire to unearth what life is really about. People deep down want to believe there's something else or something more, even though our senses bely it.
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Off With Their Heads
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About the supposed Philadelphia Experiment: Wouldn't it take a literally astronomical amount of energy to bend light significantly?

I mean, the gravitational fields that bend light enough for anyone to care come from stars. People check Einstein's predictions (for fun, at this point) by looking at light bent around the Sun during an eclipse. Bending light enough to make a ship invisible to people nearby would require even larger gravitational fields, which would probably require density on the order of a black hole.

Simulating the density of a black hole would require a prohibitive amount of energy, no matter how it was to be done, especially in the days before nuclear power. (Not that it would be any more possible now, really.)

[ Friday, June 16, 2006 11:32: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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I've been getting all my info on bending from the World Cup. Nasty spin, I'll have to try that on some photons.

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quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

Well, I'm at least pretty sure that Salmon is losing.


Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Infiltrator
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Interestingly enough, the military is doing research on invisibility, but on a much more realistic, and less secretive level. They have worked on developing military fatigues which actually use fiber optics to project the image from behind the individual onto the front of the uniform and vice-versa.

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"As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it." --Albert Einstein
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Posts: 536 | Registered: Sunday, September 7 2003 07:00
By Committee
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Commercial invisibility would open up a whole other can of worms for torts liability. It would probably have to go in the ultra-hazardous category of strict liability, if it were allowed on the market at all.

This brings to mind the whole wacky political issue of cloaking devices in the Star Trek universe. Man, am I getting old.
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Electric Sheep One
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Making a black hole the diameter of a human hair would require squeezing into that tiny volume ... the US Navy.

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Law Bringer
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Improved camouflage with fiber optics, maybe. Invisibility would require an infinite number of infinitely small fiber optic cables and an effectively omniscient computer. Even then I'm dubious about how invisible you could be to two observers at different angles and distances.

—Alorael, who thinks mind control has more possibility of working. "These are not the tanks you're looking for."
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Shaper
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I disagree, you would only need small enough equipment to decieve the human eye. With further exploration in nanotechnology this may be entirely feasible; however, it probably won't be very cost-effective as other electronic means would easily detect you.

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Lt. Sullust
Cogito Ergo Sum
Polaris
Posts: 2462 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Nuke and Pave
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You couldn't make a person "invisible" to two observers looking from different directions simultaneously:

Let's say a person in "invisibility suit" is standing in front of a tree. Two people are standing in front of him, with a significant distance between them and are looking at the tree. To make the person invisible to observer on his left, the image of the tree would have to be projected onto the left side of his body. But if the suit does that, observer on the right will see a section of tree trunk moved to a side. (To fool observer of the right, you'd have to project the image onto the right side of the subject's body.) Draw this on paper and you'll see what I mean.

This might work if the observers are so far away that the difference doesn't matter, but to a nearby observer the person in this "invisibility suit" will be just as visible as he'd be while wearing a regular camouflage uniform.

[ Friday, June 16, 2006 15:32: Message edited by: Zeviz ]

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Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Councilor
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Obviously, the solution to this is to have the person hide in the tree instead of standing right in front of it. :P

Dikiyoba.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Shaper
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I refuse to accept that there is not a method to make an object invisible to any amount of observers. However, I do agree that the current proposed method will not handle said situation.

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Lt. Sullust
Cogito Ergo Sum
Polaris
Posts: 2462 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #17
Make the person look like something (anything) other than a person. That isn't likely to stop them from getting shot, as SoT pointed out on the SciFi Channel. It just means it wouldn't be as deliberate.

If the light bending technique is used as camo, why not just use camo? Or to be more precise, have the fiber optics run a dithering process which breaks to outline of the human form into a semblence of the background.

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quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

Well, I'm at least pretty sure that Salmon is losing.


Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Infiltrator
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I can't remember where I saw this partcular technology. I do recall that it included a demo. The person was sort of shimmering, you could see them based on the ripples in their clothes and such, but they matched the color of whatever was behind them. Unfortunately, I can't remember any specifics. Sorry.

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"As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it." --Albert Einstein
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Posts: 536 | Registered: Sunday, September 7 2003 07:00
...b10010b...
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Don't get too excited; the "invisibility" thing is based on an idea by DARPA, which has come up with an approximately equal number of completely brilliant projects and completely insane ones.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Law Bringer
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But the demo is part of the problem that Zeviz and I were talking about. You can become virtually invisible at one angle, but not at more than one angle. The invisibility armor can't duplicate parallax. (Unless you can have selectively aimed light projecting different images, that is.)

—Alorael, who can see possibilities for needle in a haystack invisibility. If you can project random colors and shapes all over a combat area, a "camo" suit of random shapes and colors makes you invisible. That's neither effective nor particularly useful, but it could work.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
? Man, ? Amazing
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quote:
Originally written by Thuryl:

Don't get too excited; the "invisibility" thing is based on an idea by DARPA, which has come up with an approximately equal number of completely brilliant projects and completely insane ones.
How are you able to differentiate? The Pentagon routinely pushes the limits of insanity. If it fails then human error is the cause. Otherwise, it was brilliant.

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quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

Well, I'm at least pretty sure that Salmon is losing.


Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #22
I don't think that there's anything inherently impossible about projecting different images in different directions.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
...b10010b...
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quote:
Originally written by Freakin' Salmon:

How are you able to differentiate? The Pentagon routinely pushes the limits of insanity. If it fails then human error is the cause. Otherwise, it was brilliant.
The Internet falls pretty clearly on the brilliant side. Hypnotising farm animals to carry out secret missions falls pretty clearly on the insane side. The jury's still out on this one.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #24
quote:
Originally written by Thuryl:

Hypnotising farm animals to carry out secret missions falls pretty clearly on the insane side.
That's what you think, unbeliever.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00

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