Dinosaurs Are Alive
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Warrior
Member # 7099
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written Tuesday, August 22 2006 10:31
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Thank you Kelandon, for debating. Not many people know about such subjects. Now, i will actually go and study it, lol. I actually dont know much. I just use my common sense on everything, which only goes so far without knowing anything. And, i dont remember anything about a whale in the Odyssey, oohh well. And, since its a side interest for you, what would you recommend studying exactly? Cuz, i love to read. Ill read anything pretty much. Not till recently have i tired making myself smarter. Are you sure he spoke a Greek word? Hm, ill go look it up. Ok, well, he was speaking with the pharisees, who were Roman, and since Jesus knew all languages, he probably replied in Greek. But since you just said there WAS a word that meant whale in Greek, then my point is proven, it WAS a whale that swallowed Jonah. Of course i was largely wrong in assuming he invented the word, i was just guessing/assuming. Anyways.... -------------------- I like everyone...I just like some people more than others! Posts: 60 | Registered: Wednesday, May 3 2006 07:00 |
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Post Navel Trauma ^_^
Member # 67
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written Tuesday, August 22 2006 11:55
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quote: -------------------- Barcoorah: I even did it to a big dorset ram. desperance.net - Don't follow this link Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Tuesday, August 22 2006 12:36
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The New Testament as we now have it was originally written in Greek. This doesn't mean that Jesus spoke Greek. It's one of the distinctive things about Christianity as a religion, that it was comfortable with translations from the beginning. Nobody ever minded that some vital nuance of Jesus's teaching might have gotten lost in translation from Aramaic to Greek. Considering the degree of authority that Christians attribute to the man, this is really pretty remarkable: we believe his words will never pass away, but his diction was abandoned almost immediately. -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Tuesday, August 22 2006 12:44
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Study linguistics. Actually, start by studying English. Please. Also, to elucidate the Khoth's lovely subtlety, the Pharisees were Jews around Jerusalem, so they probably spoke Aramaic. The Romans were not Greeks, so while the educated may have known Greek, they would have been more likely to speak Latin. Also, you seem to have completely missed what everyone else has been saying: quote:It was used to refer to whales, but it was used non-exclusively. Even if it did mean whale, neither Matthew nor Jonah is the direct word of God. The New Testament is just as likely to be wrong as the Old Testament, and the Book of Jonah was written closer to the events in question. —Alorael, who imagines that inventing words for speeches is usually a bad idea. Speeches are intended to communicate, not baffle. Usually. [ Tuesday, August 22, 2006 12:45: Message edited by: Minor Minor Minor Minor ] Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 7099
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written Tuesday, August 22 2006 14:09
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quote:Um, sry to say this, but you are very wrong. However, you are right that they were jew. In fact, one of three jewish sects. Lol. And, i think im right in saying that all the Gospels (life of Jesus), was written in Greek. Also, Ketos, was used to describe ANY cetacean. Basically, any sort of whale related thing. Also, ketos doesnt mean fish. "ichtus" means fish. Also, the Old Testament wasnt written in Greek, it was written in hebrew. All im trying to say, is that its a whale that swallowed him. I dont know how we got to this point, we WERE talking about dinosaurs. Lol, how funny.ok bubye -------------------- I like everyone...I just like some people more than others! Posts: 60 | Registered: Wednesday, May 3 2006 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Tuesday, August 22 2006 14:14
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quote: quote:You might not remember the whale because there wasn't one. There were seals in Book 4, though. quote:Classical culture. I'd recommend learning Greek and Latin and at minimum reading Homer, Plato, Vergil, and Cicero. quote:Well, that's what the Bible says. The New Testament was written in Greek. I have no idea what the historical Jesus actually said, but the Jesus character in the Bible talked in Greek most of the time. quote:How does this make any sense? Refer to Alo's post, with the slight modification below. quote:When did I say that? I said that there was a word that meant "big sea monster" in Greek, not "whale." quote:And you know what happens when you ass-u-me, right? quote:Well, to be fair, the eastern Romans by and large spoke Greek. Bilingualism was common; in cosmopolitan areas throughout the empire, one would be understood speaking either language. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6489
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written Tuesday, August 22 2006 14:14
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quote:Please stop saying this to everyone that you disagree with. It is really starting to get on my nerves. Secondly, you really should know what you're talking about before you start arguing with the denizens of these fora. If not, you're asking for a smackdown. Also, if you continue acting in the way that you have been acting, you will most likely be canned. -------------------- "You're drinking liquor because you're thirsty? How nasty is your freaking water?" —Lazarus Spiderweb Chat Room Avernum RP • Summaries • OoC • Roster Shadow Vale - My site, home of the Spiderweb Chat Database, BoA Scenario Database, & the A1 Quest List, among other things. Posts: 1556 | Registered: Sunday, November 20 2005 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 7099
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written Tuesday, August 22 2006 15:06
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quote:Lol...um, what are you talking about? I say it no matter what, if im disagreeing or not. Also, i dont give a crap if i get "canned". Why are you all of a sudden attacking me? ive been nothing but polite to everyone. Nobody else has complained. And i DO know at least a little of what im talking about, what i said was sort of a joke. And how have i been acting? I'm just being...ME. SO yeah. WHATEVER. Anyways...what does this have to do with the topic? Say something meaningful for once! Ok, bubye -------------------- I like everyone...I just like some people more than others! Posts: 60 | Registered: Wednesday, May 3 2006 07:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Tuesday, August 22 2006 17:09
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Originally by Lowbacca: quote:Tyranicus wasn't attacking you. He was requesting that you change a certain behavior because he finds it rude. Dikiyoba. Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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Triad Mage
Member # 7
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written Tuesday, August 22 2006 17:18
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quote:Let the mods do their job. ok? bubye. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Tuesday, August 22 2006 17:49
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May I inquire what IS the point of what Jesus said about Jonah being in the belly of a whale for three days and nights? Is it supposed to suggest that an aquatic dinosaur lived in the time of Jonah? Is it to contend whether it was an actual whale or some other large fish or sea critter? That aside, I am more interested in this Leviathan who is mentioned only in the book of Job, which is a book, origin and time unknown, quite possibly predating the writing of any other book in the Old Testament. It is written in high poetic form full of the dialog of various contenders on the cause of Job’s suffering. I doubt there ever was a real man Job, but the story and debate is rich and could be seen to be pregnant with spiritual implication, if one wishes to see it as divinely inspired writing. The last thing in the world I think any of it is is literal. Why must believers in God so often require the most obviously symbolic or poetic things to be literal and actual or historical? Jesus spoke in parables - metaphors/analogies almost consistently. If that was the way God likes to communicate, that should tell us something about the language of lots of other scripture too. In the case of Leviathan, does this sound like the sort of literal description of an actual creature living in the sea? > Will he make many supplications unto thee? will he speak soft words unto thee? > Will he make a covenant with thee? > By his neesings a light doth shine, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the > morning. Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out. Out > of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron. His breath > kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth. Come now, a sea dinosaur who breathes fire...underwater? Uh-huh. > In his neck remaineth strength, and sorrow is turned into joy before him. He’s a happy sea monster too. > Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear. He beholdeth all > high things: he is a king over all the children of pride. He is the king of those birthed of pride. Ooh, allegory? Maybe this is talking about the same sort of “serpent” which is also portrayed as the adversary, whether the one in the garden or the dragon in Revelation which sweeps “stars” from the “heavens” with his “tail.” When you look at it as the monster birthed of pride that lurks deep in the hearts of men, in our deep, miry seas within, it actually becomes useful prose in a spiritual writing, rather than a historical reference to a salt-water dinosaur dragon. Eh...and my epiphany for this week is that no matter who you are, everyone likes dinosaurs. -S- is for Sparky Symbolic Seamonsters. [ Tuesday, August 22, 2006 17:51: Message edited by: Synergy ] -------------------- A4 Item Locations A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List The Insidious Infiltrator Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Tuesday, August 22 2006 18:06
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quote:The question at hand was what the sea creature mentioned was supposed to be (in the story). The New Testament is one source for it, and it's the only source that I can speak about with some background. If someone has a better handle on the references from the Old Testament, give some info. I'd like to know. So far we've heard that it's sometimes interpreted as a crocodile or something from the Hebrew. [ Tuesday, August 22, 2006 19:24: Message edited by: Kelandon ] -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Tuesday, August 22 2006 18:28
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Why or how are we to make any link at all between the Jonah fish/whale/whatever and Job's leviathan? -S- -------------------- A4 Item Locations A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List The Insidious Infiltrator Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 5410
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written Tuesday, August 22 2006 19:58
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Lowbacca: quote:They matter because they show a sloppy and disorganized mind and thereby weaken the credibility of any of your statements. It becomes irritating and detracts from reading for content. It also makes comprehension more difficult (I see "ill" and understand sickness rather than I'll, thus I have to re-read the sentence to make sure I really understand your point). The occasional spelling/grammar error is fine but your messages are littered - you make little/no effort to abide by convention. This causes me to question your research/ability to speak with authority on a topic. quote:Interesting to note that common sense isn't common, it is a learned understanding - so you must know something. Ie. it is common sense not to stand in water when working with electricity - but only if you have learned that water is a good conductor of electricity. Using common sense in here is liable to get you in serious trouble as there seem to be experts on just about any subject, or at least individuals who will put work into learning relevant material from good authorities. That being said, it is also a good place to be if you are willing to be challenged in your thinking and make adjustments as appropriate when proper data is supplied (thanks Kel for lessons on Greek). -------------------- "Dikiyoba ... is demon ... drives people mad and ... do all sorts of strange things." "You Spiderwebbians are mad, mad, mad as March hares." Posts: 687 | Registered: Wednesday, January 19 2005 08:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Tuesday, August 22 2006 21:20
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I propose that, analogous to 'trolling', we define a new meaning for 'lolling'. -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Tuesday, August 22 2006 23:00
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Water is actually a pretty lousy conductor, so common sense is still wrong. We just live in a world full of water that is full of non-water solutes. quote:You can either let my errors slide or you can point them out. I know I have been wrong many times and doubtless will be again, but I can't grow spiritually or intellectually unless I get something a little more specific to work with. For what it's worth, yes, ketos was apparently used to describe any cetacean. And large fish. And seals. So we have established that Jonah was not eaten by, for example, a cane toad. Fatman (2bit) has put forward an interesting reason for clean and proper English, but I have an alternate one] it's polite. Forcing readers to decipher poor writing, no matter how innocuous it is, is mildly rude to said readers. —Alorael, who may be guilty of meandering and possibly malingering as well. To save himself, he'll turn to blasphemy. Is it just him, or is the story of Job is very disquieting, and not just because of gigantic seals. It suggests that the way to be safe is to be righteous but not too righteous so that one remains under the divine radar, so to speak. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 5410
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written Wednesday, August 23 2006 04:36
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by me: quote:by Minor: quote:When not being specific enough (and proper grammar, spelling is part of what is needed) communication doesn't occur. I should have specified water relative to air. But I still would be wrong (and so would Minor) because it is not actually the water that conducts electricity, it is the dissolved salts and minerals in the water that act as the conductor. So, I am wrong, and Minor's correction of me is also wrong. If I had been clear in my original message Minor would not have needed to (incorrectly) try to correct me. edit: perhaps a better statement would have left out the word good, as in "water is a conductor of electricity..." which would have conveyed the message (although still being technically incorrect it would have sufficed for the point) Wikipedia gives some relative conductivities for those interested Conductivity [ Wednesday, August 23, 2006 04:45: Message edited by: 2bit ] -------------------- "Dikiyoba ... is demon ... drives people mad and ... do all sorts of strange things." "You Spiderwebbians are mad, mad, mad as March hares." Posts: 687 | Registered: Wednesday, January 19 2005 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Wednesday, August 23 2006 09:46
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Relative to air, you're still more likely to get a shock from a wool sweater than from electrical wires dropped in distilled water. As I said, common sense is technically wrong but functionally useful because we live in a world where most water is full of solutes that do ionize and conduct. I think calling water an electrical conductor is misleading even if you don't say it's a good conductor. Water is an insulator. —Alorael, who anyway thinks his point, which is that common sense in this case tells many people something about pure water that is untrue, stands. Common sense is for first approximations only! [ Wednesday, August 23, 2006 09:48: Message edited by: Minor Minor Minor Minor ] Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Wednesday, August 23 2006 12:43
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quote:Ordinary distilled water is actually still significantly conductive -- much more weakly so than tap water, but enough that it can short out electrical devices. You have to purify water very thoroughly before it stops conducting to any measurable extent. [ Wednesday, August 23, 2006 12:48: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 3040
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written Wednesday, August 23 2006 15:15
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I'm still pissed at my high school chem teacher. That hydrolysis setup was a lie! A damned lie! Pshh, she had us believe water was enough. Not until later did she admit there had to be sulfuric acid in there to make it work... -------------------- 5.0.1.0.0.0.0.1.0... Posts: 508 | Registered: Thursday, May 29 2003 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Wednesday, August 23 2006 16:57
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By distilled water water I of course mean distilled and deonized water. [Edit: Italic!] —Alorael, who wonders what happened to the unionized water. Did Big Water crack down with the help of shibboleth sorting? [ Wednesday, August 23, 2006 16:58: Message edited by: Intronforge ] Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Wednesday, August 23 2006 18:27
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Going back to the topic of dinosaurs and whether the Levithan in the book of Job was one, I wasted some time trying to Google a decent reference. Lousy search engine can't read my mind yet and I had to rely on key words. This is one that gives why it isn't: Leviathan as a dinosaur Leviathan is used in some instances for a gigantic coiled serpent creature and in Psalms as a whale. Another one gives the Biblical references and their possible allegorical meanings: Instances where Leviathan is mentioned The point is that you have to go back to the original language and not always rely on translations. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 5410
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written Friday, August 25 2006 05:47
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going back to water: quote:I agree that water is an insulator, in fact I even said that the statement "water is a conductor" is technically wrong - because it is the dissolved minerals, etc that actually conduct electricity not the water itself. To be techincally correct then, we should say that it is common sense not to stand in ordinary water when working with electricity as the dissolved solutes contained withing ordinary, unpurified (deionized and distilled) will conduct electricity and as a result you may get hurt. It is common sense because many people know of situations where that has occured. I like your statement "...technically wrong but functionally useful", in fact I also agreed that it was technically incorrect. And once again precision gets us into trouble because I never specified that I was talking about ordinary water rather than pure water. I wonder if Leviathan can come up with such a variety of meanings and precison of those meanings...or will the use of "ordinary" also get me into trouble? -------------------- "Dikiyoba ... is demon ... drives people mad and ... do all sorts of strange things." "You Spiderwebbians are mad, mad, mad as March hares." Posts: 687 | Registered: Wednesday, January 19 2005 08:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Friday, August 25 2006 06:02
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quote:As well, we could institute a new condemnation of style. dr, cg edit - how on earth did i manage that??? [ Friday, August 25, 2006 06:03: Message edited by: Spoilt Salmon ] -------------------- quote: Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Friday, August 25 2006 15:05
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quote:Well, if you want to be even more technical, no matter how much you purify water it'll still conduct electricity a little because it spontaneously dissociates to H+ and OH- ions at a frequency of about 1 water molecule in 10 million at room temperature. An interesting aside about what we mean when we say "water": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_Earth_thought_experiment (For the record, my intuition is that XYZ is water, at least in the same common-use sense that, say, sea water is water.) [ Friday, August 25, 2006 15:25: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |