Those cartoons...
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Shaper
Member # 3442
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written Saturday, February 11 2006 09:53
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Yeah, so I noticed Alex hasn't been drawing too many cartoons of late! What's the deal? Ahem. Of course, I meant the Danish cartoons that have caused so much anger in the world this last week... What is everybody's view on this? I'd structure more and give my ideas, but it's likely to spiral out of control anyway. So, fire away. -------------------- And when you want to Live How do you start? Where do you go? Who do you need to know? Posts: 2864 | Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Saturday, February 11 2006 10:09
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Originally by SupaNik: quote:I suppose I could burn a few flags and torch a few cars... Seriously, though, the whole situation is a mess with no easy solution. How can religious beliefs and freedom of the press be reconciled? Obviously, both sides have to compromise, but can either side do it? And if one side compromises but the other doesn't, it's as bad as neither side compromising. Dikiyoba. Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6700
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written Saturday, February 11 2006 10:50
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quote:There's a difference between freedom of press and the discretion level of the writer. Or the moral/social/intellectual decency of the writer, depending on how you want to look at it. My religious beliefs have no conflict whatsoever with freedom of the press, and thus there is no need for compromise. -------------------- The Silent Assassin just went off to burn the French Embassy because a Japanese author put him in a bad mood. He'll be back in a few hours. -------------------- -Lenar Labs What's Your Destiny? Ushmushmeifa: Lenar's power is almighty and ineffable. All hail lord Noric, god of... well, something important, I'm sure. Posts: 735 | Registered: Monday, January 16 2006 08:00 |
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Master
Member # 4614
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written Saturday, February 11 2006 10:54
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I think he's still drawing the same number of cartoons per post. It's just the post category that's suffering. -------------------- -ben4808 Posts: 3360 | Registered: Friday, June 25 2004 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 4574
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written Saturday, February 11 2006 11:00
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quote:Yeah, what's wrong with him! How dare he! But seriously, I say it's a subject that we should... Eh, I don't care about politics. Let the cartoons vanish, mysteriously... and let the offended people get angry until they're done. -------------------- Constitutional monarchies are the in monarchies. Posts: 1186 | Registered: Friday, June 18 2004 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Saturday, February 11 2006 11:08
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Ben, we're talking about these cartoons here.  And while I do believe it was very unwise of the newspaper to unnecessarily fuel such a controversy, I also think the issue has been blown entirely out of proportion. Why can't everyone just go back to hating the West for shooting wounded civilians and torturing prisoners, rather than hating them for not punishing its free newspapers for publishing caricatures? There's enough to be angry about without resorting to this. -------------------- Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum] My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast. Polaris is dead, long live Polaris. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 6666
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written Saturday, February 11 2006 11:26
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Holy Allah and/or Jahve, Aran! You just incurred the wrath of billions of moslems! Oh, and thanks for doing so, since I hadn't seen the pictures before. As for the whole caricature-thing, I think the moslems might be overreacting a bit. Also, the whole thing seems a bit artificial. After all, as I've understood it, the pictures were published in september. Does it really take that long to deliver the Jyllands Posten to the middle-east? Posts: 353 | Registered: Monday, January 9 2006 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
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written Saturday, February 11 2006 11:57
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Jyllands-Posten published the cartoons in a deliberate effort to spark controversy. The Danish government's defense of the same is driven less by respect for freedom of speech than by a slavering, inane enthusiasm for the idea of a 'culture war'. J-P would never publish similar cartoons about Christ - they've actually proven this on several occasions, demurring from publishing them in the past so as to avoid offending their readers' sensibilities - and the Liberal Party gov't would never in a million years go to blows to defend the 'right to free speech' of someone who did. This is race baiting, plain and simple, dressed up to look like civil liberties are at stake. The actions of Jyllands-Posten are unacceptable, the refusal of the Danish gov't to say something like 'We sternly disapprove of and apologize for the actions of our citizens, although we claim no legal prerogative to stop them' is unacceptable, and the wide, needless reprinting of the cartoons by European rightist papers is just another piece of evidence that the continent is as savage as it was in the first half of the 20th century and likely destined for the same end. Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 3171
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written Saturday, February 11 2006 12:33
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What annoys me about those muslem cartoons is not the fact that they were published in New Zealand, but the fact that they were published in New Zealand by 3 australian owned news papers after we'd been told that they would cut trades to our country if we published them. And to top it off those same papers didn't put them in their papers in Australia. [ Saturday, February 11, 2006 12:34: Message edited by: Kingy ] Posts: 776 | Registered: Friday, July 4 2003 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Saturday, February 11 2006 13:16
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quote:Would we find the irony if this was the petty act which ultimately triggered WWIII? I see the 21st century as the boxing ring for the inevitable showdown between the clashing ideologies of Islam and the west/Christianity. Again. Darn those Chinese and those "interesting times" they keep wishing on us all. -------------------- A4 Items List A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List G4 Insidious Infiltrator NR Items List Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 1768
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written Saturday, February 11 2006 20:25
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Clashing ideologies? The only clashes I see are between the "liberal" west and the "conservative" west and the middle east/SEast asia with all of the West. "Conservatives" actually can hold similar values to the mid east, other than the fact that they believe that America is better than everybody and that they hate Islam in any form. Sad fact, that. -------------------- "Oh, North Wind, why frighten others? In Nature's family all are brothers. Puff and blow and wheeze and hiss; You can't frighten Shingebiss. Bring your frost and ice and snow; I'm still free to come and go. You can never frighten me, One who never fears is FREE!" -Shingebiss, the mighty duck Posts: 830 | Registered: Tuesday, August 20 2002 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Saturday, February 11 2006 21:08
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I guess the Danish head of state was within his rights to say that he can't apologize for his country's free press, but he missed an opportunity right after that to say, "But these people are publicity-hounds and jerks, and they don't represent anyone, so I apologize on behalf of the more decent portion of humanity." On the other hand, the extremists over in the Middle East who are using this to fuel hatred of the West are also partly to blame and are not doing themselves credit here. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6700
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written Saturday, February 11 2006 21:30
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quote:Clashing ideals, huh? The ideal thing about ideals is that ideally, everyone sees ideals your way... The way I interpret Desert Pl@h's post is thus... So you have Western Liberals , who want everything to be dramatically changed so that everything is totally equal and communal and everyone has the same single right: to not offend other people. Nothing else is allowed. Some people will kill others to prevent violence. You have the Western Conservatives , who would prefer if we all lived in the southern states under whoever the Republican Candidate for that term happens to be (because the Republicans know better than the people, obviously), and spoke in King James English. These people would probably insist on going around in loincloths to simulate the Garden of Eden, but for the fact that ankles and shoulders are too scandalous to be seen. A few of these types will burn crosses. Then, you have the Arab types represented in this quote. First are the minority of Liberal Muslims , who live to serve Allah by being an example in the world and being a wonderful influence in politics. Granted, there are a few issues of religious purgings (uh... Jihads) of Christians, Atheists, and Jews (the Liberal Muslims seem to get along very well with the East Asian peoples), but for the most part, all they want is to be left alone and control their own people. And then, the ever-popular Conservative Muslims who believe that everything but conservative Islam is a scourge upon creation, and must eventually be either converted or purged. These people think that Americans are the greatest threat towards proper order, followed in a close second by the Jews, and any sympathizers with the first two to be number three. Conservative Muslim tend to keep some traditions of times around the founding of the religion, when a certain guy named Mohammed was trying to defend his nation. To the radical conservatives, terrorist attacks are merely defensive strikes to keep corruption away from the Muslim people. I tried to offend everyone equally, if you didn't get the picture. Ideally, the Western Liberals want the world to be equal. Then, the world will be at peace. Ideally, the Western Conservatives want all of the traditions to be held forever. Then, the world will be at peace. Ideally, Islam's goal is to convert or kill the whole world; Or, at least, conservative Islam thinks that way. Then the world will be at peace. Which I think is kinda wierd, in that there's a protective clause in the Koran that protects Jews and Christians from the punishment against infidels because they are both, I believe the term is, "Peoples of the Book", or something along that measure... (someone please correct me if otherwise) I personally don't like Islam. I don't hate it, either, I just think that it has several fundemental flaws and loopholes as a religion that have brought about the chaos we experience in the Middle East today. I don't think that wiping out all of the Arabs is the answer, either, though I do feel a mild bit of animousity toward them for blaming all of their "corruptive" problems on us. (Jeez... it's physics, let alone social dynamics... anything that is exposed to anything else will undoubtedly be changed in some way, shape, or form) In regards to my previous post, I had no idea that the publishing of these cartoons was determinatively for instigation. In that respect... public media is made for instigation, but outright disrespect is irresponsible, even if it gets the results it wants. There are ways to get the same results without getting people killed in the process. -------------------- The Silent Assassin has prematurely returned from his stealth mission against the French to keep me from embarassing myself further. -------------------- -Lenar Labs What's Your Destiny? Ushmushmeifa: Lenar's power is almighty and ineffable. All hail lord Noric, god of... well, something important, I'm sure. Posts: 735 | Registered: Monday, January 16 2006 08:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4
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written Saturday, February 11 2006 22:03
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http://www.whitehouse.org/news/2006/020506.asp -------------------- * Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
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written Saturday, February 11 2006 22:24
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quote:  Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00 |
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Triad Mage
Member # 7
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written Sunday, February 12 2006 05:00
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The cartoons were not nice. However, the response was in no way acceptable. Torching embassies and making death threats should not be tolerated. When are these people going to learn that violence won't solve their problems? Probably only when the West stops caving in to it. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 3442
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written Sunday, February 12 2006 05:05
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quote:I agree, of course. The thing is, that if distastful drawings of the Virgin Mary or whatever where printed, there'd be the same amount of uproar from Christians, I'd imagine. Not all Christians, no, but a miority. I don't like the emphasis the British media has put on the race and religion of these demonstrators. Sure, carrying placards that say "Death to the West" or whatever is unacceptable, but it would be just as unacceptable if a white caucasian Christian did it. I don't like the anti-Muslim vibes I'm getting. And now with that video showing U.K troops kicking muslims... I can't help but feel this is all deliberate. That people are actually spoiling for a war between religions. Maybe to get greater control of the public? Heaven knows that the British government has been wanting to push through "security" bills for a while now... [ Sunday, February 12, 2006 05:07: Message edited by: SupaNik * ] -------------------- And when you want to Live How do you start? Where do you go? Who do you need to know? Posts: 2864 | Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 1768
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written Sunday, February 12 2006 08:04
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Sorry, I didn't mean to spawn another Synergy-like poster (yay for Syn!). And TM, you make me barf. Lots. EDIT: We already have white people chanting death to the West, Nik! Haven't you ever heard of Fred Phelps? [ Sunday, February 12, 2006 08:06: Message edited by: Desert Pl@h ] -------------------- "Oh, North Wind, why frighten others? In Nature's family all are brothers. Puff and blow and wheeze and hiss; You can't frighten Shingebiss. Bring your frost and ice and snow; I'm still free to come and go. You can never frighten me, One who never fears is FREE!" -Shingebiss, the mighty duck Posts: 830 | Registered: Tuesday, August 20 2002 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 6759
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written Sunday, February 12 2006 08:18
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I have a few danish friends being harrased by muslims because of this whole cartoon issue, being called "racist" and so on. It's completely hypocritical, and SO stupid. They themselves [the muslims] are being racist by stereotyping every single danish person as racist just because it was a danish paper which published this cartoon in the first place. It's all one big cycle of racist mumbo-jumbo. I think people just want something to argue about. But they are reacting in such away which goes against prophet muhammad's teachings, whom they are so violently trying to defend. Posts: 77 | Registered: Wednesday, February 1 2006 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6700
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written Sunday, February 12 2006 08:23
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I didn't mean to go on for as long as I did... Oh well. Belisarius, help me out: I totally missed the point of your response. -------------------- The Silent Assassin has taken adantage of the fact that our bunker is snowed in by sleeping in today. Ahh... almost two whole days without someone looking over my shoulder... -------------------- -Lenar Labs What's Your Destiny? Ushmushmeifa: Lenar's power is almighty and ineffable. All hail lord Noric, god of... well, something important, I'm sure. Posts: 735 | Registered: Monday, January 16 2006 08:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4
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written Sunday, February 12 2006 11:16
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Thought experiment- Let's say we americans, europeans, etc. tomorrow essentially get taken over by the Arabs. Our country's economy is reduced to nothing, and we're constantly impovrished, missing access to basic services. The Arabs basically bomb the crap out of the east coast for fun and to guarantee that they constantly reap the benefits of "trading" with us. Christianity is portrayed as a barbarous religion, and the pope is considered a terrorist leader who must be apprehended and killed at any cost. (Caveat- some might actually consider the pope a terrorist leader, but for sake of argument, we'll assume that he wasn't before. Also, for purposes of argument, we'll assume that christianity isn't already a barbaric and heartless religion. Which, in very few cases, is true.) Then, some man in a turban decides to say that there is a deep fear of criticizing christianity, and that whatever pieces of culture haven't literally been obliterated should be destroyed figuratively. Then, the whole world revolves around america and says that this proves how barbaric these "christ-eaters" truly are when some of its more enraged practicioners decide to burn down embassies of a race that only exists to exploit them anyway. I guess what I'm saying is, you can't hold them to the exact, same "tabula rasa" standards when you aren't asking your friend how many family members were brutally tortured by Saudi captors this week. -------------------- * Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
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written Monday, February 13 2006 01:37
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quote:Not necessarily. From what I understand, it's a very different situation. In that Islam specifically forbids the depiction of Mohammed, to discourage people from seeing him as the central figure of their religion and worshipping him instead of Allah. Or something along those lines. To an extent, the fact that the cartoons were mocking Islam and Mohammed isn't even the issue. But I don't pretend to actually understand what's going in the heads of the people who are so stirred up about this. Anyway, I'm with Alec and Kel here. Regardless of the over-reaction, those newspaper guys were being dicks. -------------------- SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 3442
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written Monday, February 13 2006 10:04
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quote:I agree with Kel and Alex too, of course. I'm trying to understand what the problem is. I'm by no means telling you exactly what happened. But from our press coverage, it seemed the content was the big issue, not the cartoons themselves... I dunno. It's a mess. -------------------- And when you want to Live How do you start? Where do you go? Who do you need to know? Posts: 2864 | Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00 |
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Post Navel Trauma ^_^
Member # 67
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written Thursday, February 16 2006 10:24
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Jews respond to Iranian anti-Jewish cartoon contest More people should think like that. -------------------- Barcoorah: I even did it to a big dorset ram. desperance.net - Don't follow this link Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 3442
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written Thursday, February 16 2006 10:31
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quote:Seconded. That's amazingly refreshing. It shows that there are still intelligent people in the world, after all. [ Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:32: Message edited by: SupaNik + 2 ] -------------------- And when you want to Live How do you start? Where do you go? Who do you need to know? Posts: 2864 | Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00 |
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