Chemistry at home, part 12

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AuthorTopic: Chemistry at home, part 12
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #25
quote:
Originally written by Uhh... ben?:

Cosmochemistry? They don't have astrochemistry?
When you're actually inside a star, what goes on is more a matter of physics than of chemistry. :P

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Law Bringer
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All science is physics if you look closely enough.

—Alorael, who supposes that this means that doctors are a combination of highly specialized physicist and your choice of practical employment, except people are messier than wood, stone, or metal.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Warrior
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Profile #27
boom.

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Un ronron ronchonne, un ronfleur ronfle.
Un rongeur ronge, un roi règne, une orange roule.
Ça c'est la réalité.
Mais si le ronchon ronge, le ronfleur ronchonne,
Le roi roule, le rongeur règne
Et l'orange ronfle,
Ça c'est une autre histoire.
Posts: 66 | Registered: Saturday, September 3 2005 07:00
Master
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Profile Homepage #28
Aran: thanks

Everybody else (and Aran): Tomorrow is the big day. Tomorrow the whole city of leiden might be covered with smoke and burn to the ground, because I started experimenting. Tomorrow i'll buy the stand and all the other stuff. Tomorruw... Um... Tomorrow? I think i forgot something. Well, doesn't matter.

Thuryl: I was wondering for a long time if you actually study something, or that you just read a lot. You seem to know quite a lot about thes things, so, do you know it because you had to learn it, or was it books, tv and internet?

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Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #29
quote:
Originally written by Thralni, chicken god prophet:

Thuryl: I was wondering for a long time if you actually study something, or that you just read a lot. You seem to know quite a lot about thes things, so, do you know it because you had to learn it, or was it books, tv and internet?
I have a bachelor's degree in Biomedical Science and will be commencing an Honours year in Zoology next year. As far as my knowledge of other fields goes, well, I pick it up here and there.

[ Friday, December 23, 2005 03:30: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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Thuryl was once shipwrecked on an island strewn with green, glowing canisters.

'All science is either physics or stamp collecting.'

-- Ernest Rutherford, Nobel Laureate in Chemistry.

(He was probably just bitter because the Nobel committee of that benighted era thought his nuclear transmutations counted as chemistry. He was, of course, a physicist.)

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Shaper
Member # 32
Profile #31
quote:
Originally written by Xeno's Paragua:

All science is mathematics if you look closely enough.
Sorry, as a math major I couldn't resist...

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Lt. Sullust
Cogito Ergo Sum
Polaris
Posts: 2462 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
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All science is... Damn I'm only a Sophmore in High School. Scinece is science to me. I am quite skilled at science but I must take the required courses. So no physics untill next year.

I am fully aware just about anything can be broken down in math but once again I'm a Sohpmore taking Geometry, not number theory.

So unless all science is Biology, which it is quite clearly not, I can't really get into this argument.
Posts: 484 | Registered: Monday, May 27 2002 07:00
Shaper
Member # 32
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As I understand it, Biology is a subset of Chemistry, which is a subset of Physics, which is a subset of Mathematics...

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Lt. Sullust
Cogito Ergo Sum
Polaris
Posts: 2462 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 4239
Profile #34
quote:
Originally written by Lt. Sullust:

quote:
Originally written by Xeno's Paragua:

All science is mathematics if you look closely enough.
Sorry, as a math major I couldn't resist...

That would be the stamp collecting part. :P

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There are two kinds of game players...those who are newbies, and those who were.
Posts: 322 | Registered: Monday, April 12 2004 07:00
Law Bringer
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Calling physics a subset of math is problematic. Physics certainly depends on math, but pure math is divorced from non-theoretical applications in a way physics is not.

—Alorael, who expressed that poorly. More succinctly, physics can depend on experimentation and math cannot.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire!
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All science is life if you hold it up to the mirror of society.

That's right, English all the way...

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And though the musicians would die, the music would live on in the imaginations of all who heard it.
-The Last Pendragon

Polaris = joy.

In case of emergency, break glass.
Posts: 3351 | Registered: Saturday, April 6 2002 08:00
...b10010b...
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quote:
Originally written by Scumble:

Calling physics a subset of math is problematic. Physics certainly depends on math, but pure math is divorced from non-theoretical applications in a way physics is not.

—Alorael, who expressed that poorly. More succinctly, physics can depend on experimentation and math cannot.

That's not so much the case any more, though. Experimental mathematics, involving the use of computers to find results too computation-intensive for humans to find on their own, is a growing field. And while the old guard of pure mathematicians may be throwing a blue fit about this, it's probably here to stay.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
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Biology deals specifically with living things (or that closely relate with living things). It's a very broad field. You can narrow it down into fields like ecology, natural history, biochemistry, etc. I've never heard of biophysics, but there must be something like it.

Remember, dihydrogen monoxide is a widespread, dangerous chemical found in every patient with a terminal illness and a component of all acid rain. In fact, there was probably a bunch of it in the glass of water I just finished drinking...

Dikiyoba
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
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All science is politics if you look closely enough. Repeal the second law of thermodynamics! Stop plate techtonics before it's too late!

[ Friday, December 23, 2005 15:02: Message edited by: Belisarius ]
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
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quote:
Originally written by Dikiyoba:

Biology deals specifically with living things (or that closely relate with living things). It's a very broad field. You can narrow it down into fields like ecology, natural history, biochemistry, etc. I've never heard of biophysics, but there must be something like it.
There sure is. It's used a lot in sports medicine, for example. (I'm sure you can imagine some reasons why it might be important to have a knowledge of physics in order to maximise an athlete's performance.)

[ Friday, December 23, 2005 15:11: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
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Everything is specialization. Botany and nephrology (kidneys) don't have much in common, but they're both biology. But all living things are only alive because of chemical interactions and physics, and when you get down to it chemical interactions are in fact just matter and energy, which falls under the heading of physics.

—Alorael, who will still say that physics originates with experiments and math originates with pure numbers. Galileo rolled balls down ramps before making predictions and Kepler's laws are based on the painstaking observations of Brahe. Maybe it's more accurate to say that physics, like all sciences, tries to explain reality while mathematics is quite happy to create new areas of thought for which laws must be made. Andrew Wiles is famous for proving something that has minimal effect on anything practical.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Master
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quote:
Originally written by A guy with pretty good grammar:

All science is... Damn I'm only a Sophmore in High School. Scinece is science to me. I am quite skilled at science but I must take the required courses. So no physics untill next year.

I am fully aware just about anything can be broken down in math but once again I'm a Sohpmore taking Geometry, not number theory.

So unless all science is Biology, which it is quite clearly not, I can't really get into this argument.

Ha ha, lucky me. I'm a sophmore and in physics. But only because of a schedule conflict and a continuation of classes as I changed schools.

*is now accelarting toward the center of the Earth at 9.8 m/s^2*

That said, it is quite clear that mathematics is pure science. Just look at the Dewey Decimal system.

500-599 = Pure Science
510-519 = Mathematics

[ Friday, December 23, 2005 15:49: Message edited by: Uhh... ben? ]

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-ben4808
Posts: 3360 | Registered: Friday, June 25 2004 07:00
...b10010b...
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The Dewey Decimal Classification, whilst a neat idea, is not exactly what I would call an unbiased system. :P

[ Friday, December 23, 2005 16:04: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Off With Their Heads
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I think of it this way: in math, the equation F=ma is valid if, for example, F=2, m=1, and a=2. In physics, the equation F=ma is valid if, in lab conditions, one can measurably apply a force to a known mass and produce a predictable acceleration.

Math doesn't have to justify its equations in the real world. Physics does.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
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Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
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I stay awake late at night worrying about what will happen when there are too many subcategories. Will the Dewey system break down and leave libraries in utter chaos? Will L-space absorb all of existence?

I usually fall asleep about then.

—Alorael, who thinks the problem is that math is pure but not science and science is science but not pure. Especially biology, which seems to be less pure and more tainted by theology every day.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Shock Trooper
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Profile #46
quote:
Originally written by Dikiyoba:

Remember, dihydrogen monoxide is a widespread, dangerous chemical found in every patient with a terminal illness and a component of all acid rain. In fact, there was probably a bunch of it in the glass of water I just finished drinking...
How is water dangerous? Except for being, you know, not oxygen.

quote:
Originally written by Alorael:

—Alorael, who thinks the problem is that math is pure but not science and science is science but not pure. Especially biology, which seems to be less pure and more tainted by theology every day.

No, no, that's just the media fooling you. :)

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Posts: 322 | Registered: Monday, April 12 2004 07:00
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Actually, government-funded medical science has gotten more and more bizarre. The administration's goals take precedence over the results of studies, which are spun or just buried as higher-ups see fit. Budgets get tighter as less funds are alotted but, for whatever reason, useless science gets money thrown at it. Like biodefense, which has produced nothing but not for lack of money.

—Alorael, who has just committed second degree ranting. To make up for it, he'll query as to how oxygen is less dangerous than water. Dehydration is bad. So is catching on fire.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Master
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Do you really think its only medical science? My father is a prof at Leiden university. His field is Assyrian, and my mother is a doctor in Sumerian (these are to ancient ciltures, both once living in Mesopotamia. For the once not learning Greek: it means "Between the rivers". And the country is indeed between two rivers: the Eufratis and tigris. mesopotamia once was were irak is now).

Because of the constant budget cuts, my father (my mother doesn't work in the university) can do less and less real resaerch. this is because he can't afford to hire more people to take over administrative work.

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Play and rate my scenarios:

Where the rivers meet
View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape.

Give us your drek!
Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Master
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So i finnaly bought it. A stand with two clasps. Now I only need a burner, but i don't think that will be a problem. I'm gonna blow up town now...

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Play and rate my scenarios:

Where the rivers meet
View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape.

Give us your drek!
Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00

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