...And Who's Your Favorite Hero?
Pages
- 1
- 2
| Author | Topic: ...And Who's Your Favorite Hero? |
|---|---|
|
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
|
written Saturday, August 20 2005 14:44
Profile
Inspired by Jeros' villain topic, I've decides to start one for the "good guys" too. My favorites: John Drake, from Danger Man (a.k.a., Secret Agent)—a spy with morals The Doctor, from Doctor Who—a foregone conclusion Conan the Barbarian, created by Robert E. Howard—debatable, but I'm inclined to view him in a favorable light Drizzt Do'Urden, created by R.A. Salvatore—often gets too twisted up over straightforward moral issues, but considering his upbringing that's not too surprising Commander Sinclair, from Babylon 5—Competent and tough, but not abrasively so. I prefer him over Sheridan, who often lacks subtlety. Riddick, from Pitch Black and The Chronicles of Riddick—not exactly a "good guy," but a hero nonetheless Marshal Jim Raynor, from Starcraft—a good, selfless man in a callous, selfish society Gilbert Gosseyn, created by A.E. van Vogt, featuring in the Null-A trilogy of novels—he's got superpowers and knows how to use them... most of the time Dr. Daniel Jackson, from Stargate SG-1—the power of knowledge applied morally Adrian Monk, from Monk—ceaselessly tormented by everything around him, but more than capable to do what he has to do to bring criminals to justice EDIT: Just to be helpful, added information on where these guys "came from." Also retitled the thread to make it easier to see at a casual glance that it's not Jeros' villain topic. Most eyes look at the first few letters or words, and would just glide over the word "hero" at the end even if it made it that far. [ Saturday, August 20, 2005 20:31: Message edited by: Icshi ] -------------------- The A.E. van Vogt Information Site My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00 |
|
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
|
written Saturday, August 20 2005 20:47
Profile
Homepage
Jean Valjean, from Les Miserables. Captain Jack Sparrow, from Pirates of the Carribean. Inigo Montoya, from The Princess Bride. Samwise Gamgee, from Lord of the Rings. -------------------- Sex is easier than love. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
|
Shaper
Member # 5450
|
written Saturday, August 20 2005 20:47
Profile
Homepage
Linden Avery, Thomas Covenant books. She handles herself really well, and ends up champion. Belgarion, Belgaraid and Malloraen books. while he is kind of ignorant, he still wins. Mainly because he knows that what has to be done, has to be done. And he doesn't muck around. -------------------- I'll put a Spring in your step. Polaris Posts: 2396 | Registered: Saturday, January 29 2005 08:00 |
|
Agent
Member # 1558
|
written Saturday, August 20 2005 21:37
Profile
Well, in HP Harry is obviously the major hero, with help from Hermione and Ron. I think Snape and/or Draco will somehow be a minor hero. As discussed in the second MuggleCast, I think either unknowingly or knowingly - in a short alliance (for a very short time, they don't LIKE Harry) they will contribute to Harry's efforts in some way. If they do, they will be my favourite heroes. [ Saturday, August 20, 2005 22:29: Message edited by: stranger ] -------------------- I'm tired of the strain and the pain ___ ___ ___ I feel the same, I feel nothing Nothing is important to me ___ ___ ___ ___ __ And nobody nowhere understands anything About me and all my dreams lost at sea ___ __ But we’re not the same, we’re different tonight We’ll make things right, we’ll feel it all tonight _ The indescribable moments of your life tonight The impossible is possible tonight ___ ____ ___ Believe in me as I believe in you, tonight Go All Blacks xtraMSN Rugby _ MuggleNet Posts: 1112 | Registered: Friday, July 19 2002 07:00 |
|
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
|
written Saturday, August 20 2005 22:01
Profile
Homepage
How would that make them your favourite characters? Character is who they are, not what they do. I can't see how that would reveal anything new about them, so if they aren't your favourites now, why would that change it? [ Saturday, August 20, 2005 22:03: Message edited by: Ash Lael ] -------------------- Sex is easier than love. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
|
Agent
Member # 1558
|
written Saturday, August 20 2005 22:20
Profile
Of course part of character is what you do. How could you think this is not the case? You seem to think that character is defined at birth and no matter what someone does, they never change. Right now they are my favourite characters, but because the last book is unpublished, the last year of development of the characters is unknown. The last book will define these characters, at the end of HBP these two are at crossroads, they have many choices they can make which will define who they really are, they have not made those choices yet. So I don't really see how you can justify what you just said. These two character would not be my favourites if JKR just depicted Draco's uncertainty when about to kill Dumbledore as just a one-off, and continue to show him to be a one-dimentional EVOL PRIEST. I don't care if Draco ends up helping Harry or not, I would just be disappointed if he ends up not being as interesting as he seems now. I wonder at his I-must-do-bad-things-to-Harry-and-his-mates attitude (even though he always seems to fail) and his motives. Snape so far is a more interesting character than Draco, because his position is more pivotal to the plot. The same things can be said about him - we don't know if he'll help Harry or not, we don't know his motives. They would not be my favourite characters if they did not continue to be complex, if it was all a hoax/facade, as could easily happen. EDIT: I wonder what Spring thinks about this. [ Saturday, August 20, 2005 23:21: Message edited by: stranger ] -------------------- I'm tired of the strain and the pain ___ ___ ___ I feel the same, I feel nothing Nothing is important to me ___ ___ ___ ___ __ And nobody nowhere understands anything About me and all my dreams lost at sea ___ __ But we’re not the same, we’re different tonight We’ll make things right, we’ll feel it all tonight _ The indescribable moments of your life tonight The impossible is possible tonight ___ ____ ___ Believe in me as I believe in you, tonight Go All Blacks xtraMSN Rugby _ MuggleNet Posts: 1112 | Registered: Friday, July 19 2002 07:00 |
|
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
|
written Saturday, August 20 2005 23:35
Profile
Homepage
quote:How does "Action != Character" somehow translate into "People never change" in your head? :confused: Action reveals character, sure. But they are still two distinct things. If you want further revelations/developments of these characters, fine. But the situation you suggested demands neither. Both characters, as they are now, would be willing to work with Harry if they were in sufficiently extreme circumstances. A temporary alliance would be a plot point, not a character reveal. -------------------- Sex is easier than love. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
|
Agent
Member # 1558
|
written Sunday, August 21 2005 00:05
Profile
quote:This says to me that you think that their characters would not change no matter what decisions they make in the last book, and I think you're wrong. quote:Here you contradict what I first quoted you to say in this post. Good one, bro. Of course they are distinct, maybe I just think they are more closely related than you think they are: actions define character, character describes under which conditions you make certain choices of action. quote:How much money would you pay a thug who had his knife at your neck? This is a vague arguement bro. Snape could easily not help Harry at all, because for all the readers know, Voldie has no reason to suspect Snape of anything. He would therefore have to take a giant leap from the character we know to help Harry, putting himself at great risk from Voldie. I am interested in the idea that Snape is not on anyone's side right now, that he has played both sides, and keeps putting off the final decision of who to fully support. Any course of action he would then make would be a change of character. Draco has been portrayed to be Harry's biggest competitor at school, except that they are not equals in rivalry, Draco mostly falls short of Harry's achievements with the exception of his devotion to his task in HBP (although I think if Harry was as afraid to fail - thus jeopardising the safety of those he cares about - as Draco, he could have done it too). His portrayal has been always in opposition to Harry (and losing), so I would not brush aside the choice to willingly help him so lightly. It is not comfirmed, but it can be assumed that Draco is a Death Eater, because of his task etc and he hides his arm, so I believe helping Harry would be a change in character for Draco and well as Snape. [ Sunday, August 21, 2005 00:17: Message edited by: stranger ] -------------------- I'm tired of the strain and the pain ___ ___ ___ I feel the same, I feel nothing Nothing is important to me ___ ___ ___ ___ __ And nobody nowhere understands anything About me and all my dreams lost at sea ___ __ But we’re not the same, we’re different tonight We’ll make things right, we’ll feel it all tonight _ The indescribable moments of your life tonight The impossible is possible tonight ___ ____ ___ Believe in me as I believe in you, tonight Go All Blacks xtraMSN Rugby _ MuggleNet Posts: 1112 | Registered: Friday, July 19 2002 07:00 |
|
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
|
written Sunday, August 21 2005 01:47
Profile
Homepage
quote:No, I'm saying their characters would not change based on the specific suggestion you brought up. Snape has already sort-of worked with Harry in the Order of the Phoenix. Draco is always competing, true, but they coexist peacefully enough, and even did detention together in the first book, if memory serves me right. It's certainly not unthinkable that they would work together if need be. [quote] [quote]Action reveals character, sure. But they are still two distinct things.[/quote]Here you contradict what I first quoted you to say in this post. Good one, bro.[/quote]What are you even talking about? Saying "The possibility you mentioned does not necessitate or even imply a change of character" does not in any way contradict "Action != character". [quote]Of course they are distinct, maybe I just think they are more closely related than you think they are: actions define character, character describes under which conditions you make certain choices of action.[/quote]Oh, I agree that they're closely related. I'm just being pedantic. quote:It's spelled "argument". Circumstances of comparable extremity to your example are par for the course in fiction, so I'm not sure what your point is. [quote]Snape could easily not help Harry at all, because for all the readers know, Voldie has no reason to suspect Snape of anything. He would therefore have to take a giant leap from the character we know to help Harry, putting himself at great risk from Voldie.[/quote]You're right, it would be completely out of character for Snape to save Harry's life or something like that. Oh, wait. That already happened. [quote]His portrayal has been always in opposition to Harry (and losing), so I would not brush aside the choice to willingly help him so lightly.[/quote]I dunno, if it was in his own best interests I'm sure Malfoy could put aside the petty rivalry. If he were to risk his own well-being in some way for Harry's sake, yes, that would be a change in character. [ Sunday, August 21, 2005 01:48: Message edited by: Ash Lael ] -------------------- Sex is easier than love. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
|
Agent
Member # 2210
|
written Sunday, August 21 2005 02:03
Profile
Let me see. These guys created the basis for a lot of fictional heroes. Wong Fei Hung, Musashi, Odysseuss, Sundiata, Audie Murphy, the unbeatable heroes in history and myth who grew to be larger than life. -------------------- Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh. Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight. Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00 |
|
Agent
Member # 1558
|
written Sunday, August 21 2005 02:11
Profile
Ok, we sort of seem to agree on Draco. I assumed that Draco wouldn't be able to help Harry without risking his well-being, so that's good. You're right, it would be completely out of character for Snape to save Harry's life or something like that. Oh, wait. That already happened. What occasion are you talking about right now? What I meant to write, but didn't, was that Snape would be in the same situation as Draco in that - being a Death Eater, time until the inevitable confrontation of V vs H running out and Voldie planning whatever, I assumed that Snape would not have as much free space/time to do things. My thought was that things in the DE camp would be busy preparing for nasty encounters, and Voldie would be more prepared to come out of the open to meet Harry when he feels the time is right. If Snape wanted to help Harry he couldn't do so publicly obviously, and with the mounting preparations by the DEs, Snape would be presented with much fewer options to help Harry in secret (plus Harry doesn't trust him at all now, and we don't know how much the Order members know of anything, even if Snape is commited to the Order we don't know if anyone else in what's left of the Order trusts him). With all these random assumptions I really should have mentioned, then my thought was that if Snape wished to help Harry defeat Voldie then he would have no option but risk himself considerably. And this would then be the interesting part of the final development of Snape's character, if he could find enough reasons to risk himself in this way. EDIT: My point about what you said about extreme circumstances was: are the circumstances extreme enough for Snape to help Harry risking Voldie's wrath without a change in heart? To the best of the reader's knowledge, in Voldie's camp, Snape is just another DE, it's not like he is being targeted as a fall guy or something. With DD dead, the Order, we guess Voldie's main opposition in HBP alongside the MoM, is thrown into chaos. Things are looking up for the DEs and I'm just not sure that it wouldn't take anything short of a change of heart to some extent for Snape to leave the side which seems to be getting stronger by the day, and try to join the other team, who don't seem to trust him for squat now. That's why I think it would be truly heroic if Snape and or Draco help Harry. I think if they did so it would come from an important character decision to do so (I just think that the conditions aren't extreme enough as far as I can tell). I'm going to read the book my second time starting next weekend, so if you think I've missed something which negates my logic please say so. BTW please don't rip me apart for spelling mistakes, I seem to lack spelling profficiency (sp?). [ Sunday, August 21, 2005 02:30: Message edited by: stranger ] -------------------- I'm tired of the strain and the pain ___ ___ ___ I feel the same, I feel nothing Nothing is important to me ___ ___ ___ ___ __ And nobody nowhere understands anything About me and all my dreams lost at sea ___ __ But we’re not the same, we’re different tonight We’ll make things right, we’ll feel it all tonight _ The indescribable moments of your life tonight The impossible is possible tonight ___ ____ ___ Believe in me as I believe in you, tonight Go All Blacks xtraMSN Rugby _ MuggleNet Posts: 1112 | Registered: Friday, July 19 2002 07:00 |
|
Shaper
Member # 3442
|
written Sunday, August 21 2005 04:18
Profile
Homepage
The Doctor ("Doctor Who"), Samwise Gamgee ("The Lord Of The Rings") and Harabec Weathers ("Starsiege") are favourites. But... the best of them has to be the saviour of popular mucic.... Steven Morrissey. -------------------- "I am a living sign..." Thus endeth this post. Posts: 2864 | Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00 |
|
Agent
Member # 3349
|
written Sunday, August 21 2005 05:05
Profile
Homepage
I feel that I am the hero. -------------------- And everybody say....Yatta! Posts: 1287 | Registered: Thursday, August 14 2003 07:00 |
|
Master
Member # 1046
|
written Sunday, August 21 2005 05:50
Profile
Homepage
Myself, Wise Man. ... Oh, you mean hero, you antihero. In that case... damn. -------------------- Polaris - Weather balloons, ninjas, and your big daddy Wise Man. What more could you want? Undead Theories - Don't Ask, Don't Tell Posts: 3323 | Registered: Thursday, April 25 2002 07:00 |
|
Shock Trooper
Member # 6102
|
written Sunday, August 21 2005 10:34
Profile
The hero can be a fictional person too? If that's the case probably Auron from Final Fantasy 10, though he wasn't exactly seen as a hero, being dead and all... As for a real life hero, I have none. -------------------- "Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies in the heart of mankind." -Edward D. Morrison Posts: 220 | Registered: Monday, July 11 2005 07:00 |
|
Agent
Member # 3349
|
written Sunday, August 21 2005 11:08
Profile
Homepage
Jim Raynor. EDIT: Just noticed that someone's already said that. [ Sunday, August 21, 2005 11:09: Message edited by: Toenail1000 ] -------------------- And everybody say....Yatta! Posts: 1287 | Registered: Thursday, August 14 2003 07:00 |
|
Apprentice
Member # 6209
|
written Sunday, August 21 2005 11:15
Profile
Homepage
Jim Raynor is mine aswell... :D apart form him, I like Belgarath from The belgariad. and Thrall from warcraft 3. Posts: 4 | Registered: Friday, August 12 2005 07:00 |
|
Infiltrator
Member # 5567
|
written Sunday, August 21 2005 11:28
Profile
Homepage
You like David Eddings, Destrier? My favorites are: Telamon, Odysseus and Diomedes: from Greek mythology. Jake, Rachel, Marco, Cassie, Tobias and Aximili: from Animorphs, they are the 6 main characters. Harry Potter, Erika the Achmage (Avernum), Jim Raynor (how come everyone likes him?), and Fenix (from Starcraft like Raynor). -------------------- How many shapers are there? Why is Drypeak controlled by Zakary? Why is Barzahl a Guardian? How does the Geneforge work? What's as small as nothing? Why am I asking stupid questions? -------------------------------- Shaper teacher : "DON'T TOUCH THAT!" BOOM!! apprentice :*little voice* "Sorry..." --------------------------- Visit CSM !!! And this site is just great! Wow! Did you know what the answer to the gretest question ever is ? Posts: 576 | Registered: Wednesday, March 2 2005 08:00 |
|
Shaper
Member # 32
|
written Sunday, August 21 2005 12:28
Profile
Gandalf, Yoda, Obi-wan Kenobi, Neo (only in the first Matrix movie) -------------------- Lt. Sullust Cogito Ergo Sum Polaris Posts: 2462 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
|
Cartographer
Member # 1851
|
written Sunday, August 21 2005 12:29
Profile
Homepage
Hm. Favourite heros.. Definitely Fethos/Amaleyn. And Dinyah, Agath and Syra from the same story. Also, Grul, Gil and Hasu, the famous trio. There's just something about a ginger mermaid, centaur with a fetish, and a quiet but brilliant troll. Oh. And Ulrika and Joonatan for that matter. Not that they did much, but the story was rather good. -------------------- "Son--err," her father said, "I mean... Daughter, I give you your first and only sword. Use it for with skill for great villainy." Nanoisms Ooh! Homepage - Blog - Geneforge, +2, +3 - My Elfwood Gallery - WannabeCool Forums So many strange ones around. Don't you think? Posts: 1308 | Registered: Sunday, September 8 2002 07:00 |
|
Master
Member # 4614
|
written Sunday, August 21 2005 12:39
Profile
Homepage
Wise Man, you seem to have fogotten about poor Mr. Fletcher. Or is he a bad guy? I'll say, for the sake of tradition, GWB. :P -------------------- -ben4808 For those who love to spam: CSM Forums RIFQ Posts: 3360 | Registered: Friday, June 25 2004 07:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 335
|
written Sunday, August 21 2005 12:55
Profile
Homepage
I prefer Thomas Covenant to Linden Avery, but while they're both interesting characters, they have an unfortunate failure tendency as heroes. If "heroism" isn't necessary for this, though, then many Donaldson characters fit. Isaac Dan der Grimnebulin, Perdido Street Station: A fat, middle-aged, manically unfocused scientist turned savior? It works surprisingly well, and he stays more or less free of Percival bumpkin-savior syndrome. (He also gets contrasted beautifully with fantasy game style heroes!) Etjole Ehomba, Chronicles of the Catechist: He is that fantasy game style hero, with a few twists. More loaded down with amazing gadgetry than James Bond, more predictable than a lawful good paladin, and still very entertaining. The story is otherwise unremarkable, and he himself is bland, but it's worth reading a few hundred pages to see whater in action. Lupe dy Cazaril, The Curse of Chalion: I've noticed a trend. Most of these heroes don't spend much time blasting or dicing their enemies. This particular one seems to spend a long time worrying about a tumor, but he's an excellent hero nonetheless. The entire list of Otherland protagonists: They're all good characters, all heroic in their ways, and all memorable. Christabel Odysseus: He's the kind of sneaky bastard who would be rich, famous, and either loved or hated today. Not so different from ancient Greece, actually! Carrot Ironfounderson and Angua, Discworld: Together, they bring a little bit of traditional hero to the absurdity and insanity of Discworld. There's no reason for them to be on this list except for the fact that I really admire their coping mechanisms. —Alorael, who will admit that his list has heroes he admires as characters more than heroes he admires as people. He'll make no apologies for that, though. If you want admiral people, you know where to find them. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
|
Shaper
Member # 5450
|
written Sunday, August 21 2005 12:59
Profile
Homepage
Ok, here goes: t stranger — that is a big thing you are asking Draco/Snape to do. I do think that Draco will come back to the 'right' side sometime in book 7, because even though he is from Slytherin, where they 'save their own necks before others', his has obviously shown that he is not capable of the things that Voldermort has asked (told) him to do. Oh, and I think that this is a very great site if you are interested in the whole Dumbledore's parting thing; it explains in great detail why the author of the site does not think that Dumbledore is not deceased. It is actually kind of convincing. In the most part, however, I agree with you. They certainly are interesting to read. While I don't envy Draco for the position he is in at the moment, I think that they will be as complex and mysterious in book 7 as they are in the last bit of HBP. As for Snape, I sincerely hope that he comes back to the good side. I am in two minds about this because I reckon he has gone past the point of no return. Especially the whole killing Dumbledore part — even if it was part of a 'master plan', as many have said, Dumbledore has been like a father to Snape; sticking up for him when accused of being a Death Eater, things like that. And you mentioned that Snape would save Harry's life as he thought himself to be in debt to Harry's dad, but he has already saved Harry's life once (the bucking broomstick, PS), and therefore able to 'go on hating James's memory in peace,' to quote Dumbledore. Theres not much more I can think of at the moment, so that is what I think of it. -------------------- I'll put a Spring in your step. Polaris Posts: 2396 | Registered: Saturday, January 29 2005 08:00 |
|
Apprentice
Member # 6237
|
written Sunday, August 21 2005 14:17
Profile
hmm my favorite hero.... Rincewind the wizzard from the discworld books has to be him. He's a wizard everyone knows it because he has it written on his hat. A hero even if he doesen't want to be. errr... i say the luggage from the same books is a hero... in a way it is just a box on legs with a homicidal attitude but its still a hero because it has done some heroic things... and just as many vilanous things if not more.... ok i dunno im listing as a hero anyway. people say that an inanimate object cant be a hero but... well this is true. this object is a animate however. a nice character... err or accesory. and then... hmm MR. Pump from the book 'going postal' he's... it's a golem and hehe another animate object with a bit more inteligence. and thats it. Posts: 2 | Registered: Sunday, August 21 2005 07:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
|
written Sunday, August 21 2005 14:23
Profile
Homepage
My favorite character is Gandalf. I am not sure whether he counts as a hero. -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
Pages
- 1
- 2