May you rest in peace...

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AuthorTopic: May you rest in peace...
Agent
Member # 4506
Profile Homepage #0
WARNING: Harry Potter Spoiler below!

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Dumbledore, may you rest in peace.

I know J.K. Rowling said that someone would die in this book, but did it have to be Dumbledore? And the killer was none other than Severus Snape! It proves that our gut feelings about him were correct - he wasn't to be trusted!

I for one feel his loss greatly, and wish that he hadn't died for nothing, like he did. He died to get a note saying that he piece of Voldemort's soul had already been stolen, and that Voldemort was an idiot (pretty much).

Oh well, now we need to wait for Harry Potter 7 to come out!

- Archmagus Micael

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"You dare Trifle with Exile?" - Erika the Archmage
--------------------
My Scenarios:
Undead Valley : A small Undead problem, what could possibly go wrong?
--------------------
Proof of Richard Black's existance:
Richard Black - PROOF of his existance (the Infernal one's website).
Posts: 1370 | Registered: Thursday, June 10 2004 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #1
That was perhaps a few too many vertical lines. It's stretching the heck out of Today's Daily Topics, the prevention of which is the purpose of my post.

[ Saturday, July 16, 2005 13:15: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Shaper
Member # 5450
Profile Homepage #2
I know...completely shocking, isn't it? I was not expecting JK to kill of Dumbledore.

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Mugglenet--The ULTIMATE Harry Potter Site.
Polaris-- New location.
Posts: 2396 | Registered: Saturday, January 29 2005 08:00
Agent
Member # 3349
Profile Homepage #3
Poor guy. I haven't read the book yet, but that is an unfortunate surprise.

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And everybody say....Yatta!
Posts: 1287 | Registered: Thursday, August 14 2003 07:00
Shaper
Member # 5450
Profile Homepage #4
Micael — How do you think Harry will go in book 7, with no Dumbledore? He obviously seems to hate...the killer...enough to do something about it.

EDIT: I thought that that person would be the HBP.

[ Saturday, July 16, 2005 15:03: Message edited by: Spring ]

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Mugglenet--The ULTIMATE Harry Potter Site.
Polaris-- New location.
Posts: 2396 | Registered: Saturday, January 29 2005 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #5
I can't help laughing. Hahaha.

It'd have been far more dramatic if I had read the book first, of course, but this way I get another laugh at what J.K. has come up with to surprise the fans.

Now waiting for the multitude of fan-fictions resurrecting him as Dumbledore the White. :P

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The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki!
"Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft.
"Really, Spiderweb is just a big, steaming pool of estrogen." --- Robin
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Master
Member # 4614
Profile Homepage #6
Actually, that was about the right amount of vertical space to promptly warn potential spoilees that this is really a spoiler.

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-ben4808

For those who love to spam:
CSM Forums
RIFQ
Posts: 3360 | Registered: Friday, June 25 2004 07:00
Shaper
Member # 5437
Profile #7
quote:
Originally written by Mister Maoben:

Actually, that was about the right amount of vertical space to promptly warn potential spoilees that this is really a spoiler.
Do you honestly need 268 vertical lines before you realize that what is written below is a spoiler?

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Nena
Posts: 2032 | Registered: Wednesday, January 26 2005 08:00
Shaper
Member # 5450
Profile Homepage #8
quote:
Originally written by Arancaytar. You Owe it to the Door.:

Now waiting for the multitude of fan-fictions resurrecting him as Dumbledore the White. :P
Neither can I. Many will also hope that he will be ressurected in book 7. While I know he is dead, I still would rather him being alive, but I know that he will rest in peace without any distractions.

"To the well organised mind, death is but an adventure."

—Albus Dumbledore.

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Mugglenet--The ULTIMATE Harry Potter Site.
Polaris-- New location.
Posts: 2396 | Registered: Saturday, January 29 2005 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 3898
Profile #9
quote:
He died to get a note saying that the piece of Voldemort's soul had already been stolen, and that Voldemort was an idiot (pretty much).
No he didn't. He went across the lake full of Inferi and drank the wierd green potion to get the note. He died because of something almost 75% unrelated.

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~Note : The professional newbie's advice should not be taken seriously, or at all.~
LINKAGE
Posts: 364 | Registered: Saturday, January 17 2004 08:00
Shaper
Member # 5450
Profile Homepage #10
The main question to be asked pre-book 7: Who is R.A.B? I know I want to find out.

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Mugglenet--The ULTIMATE Harry Potter Site.
Polaris-- New location.
Posts: 2396 | Registered: Saturday, January 29 2005 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 154
Profile #11
I can't help but feel Book 6 was disturbingly hollow in terms of it's contents. It just felt like;

Filler
Filler
Filler
Dumbledore Dies (Setup for next book's plot?)
End

I was thinking when Snape made the unbreakable vow that he was doing it as a spy, and I figured it was possible the vow covered killing Dumbledore. Nevertheless, it would have been more noble for him to die.

BTW, isn't there a portrait of Dumbledore in his office? So really, he isn't totally gone. I think Dumbledore may manifest his communications in methods like this..he just won't be walking around.

[ Sunday, July 17, 2005 06:25: Message edited by: Kakakaka ]

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Inconsistently backward.
SWOH. IM, PATF, ND.
Posts: 612 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00
Agent
Member # 5814
Profile #12
Someone was saying the closest match to R.A.B. would have been Regulus Black, Sirius's brother who tried to leave the Death Eaters. Any thoughts on who else it might be or any evidence that confirms it's Regulus?
Posts: 1115 | Registered: Sunday, May 15 2005 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 5754
Profile #13
Regulus got killed by the death Eaters.

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I AM A MINOTAUR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM INVADING THE SHAPERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ALL SHALL FALL TO MY WRATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posts: 626 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 2836
Profile #14
He might not have! That might have been a mistake, and he wasn't really killed. Maybe he survived, and tried to seek revenge by killing Voldemort.
Posts: 587 | Registered: Tuesday, April 1 2003 08:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #15
Ummm.

It's fiction, and there is magic. Anything could happen, no one is dead, the next book will contain whatever will sell the most copies.

*this message sponsored by H2O and the Hudson Bay blanket company*
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Shaper
Member # 3442
Profile Homepage #16
"All you need is a Balm of Life, and a few dozen SP, and you'll have him back in a jiffy, right?"

"Err, yes..."

(Weird mumblings, much flicking through books, a very embarrassed whisper...)

"What do you mean we don't have that spell at level 2?! What did we spend the gold on? Oh...right...a tunic."

--------------------
Everybody knows, but nobody understands.

Thus endeth this post.
Posts: 2864 | Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 5754
Profile #17
It said at least 5 times regules died and there is no necromancy in HP.

--------------------
I AM A MINOTAUR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM INVADING THE SHAPERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ALL SHALL FALL TO MY WRATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posts: 626 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
By Committee
Member # 4233
Profile #18
Hadn't thought about Regulus...

Note that he wouldn't necessarily have to be alive currently - he just would've had to effect the switch at some point in the past. Given than we know he's dead (and probably R.A.B. anyway - what was the Bones woman's full name, who was killed at the beginning?), the remaining question is: Does Voldemort possess the locket now?

Severus Snape as Judas. I'm willing to bet that in book 7, Snape will end up regretting his act and probably sacrifice himself to help Harry take down Voldemort. Remember that the thing he hated Harry calling him more than anything was a coward. This is because he likely feels guilty for killing Dumbledore instead of breaking the unbreakable vow and giving up his own life. Will he redeem himself? Given the typical outcomes for similar characters in literature, I'd say odds are he will. The clue to this? When he was going to help the Death Eaters, he didn't kill Professor Flitwick. When he was fleeing the scene, he claimed he was saving Harry for Voldemort, but he never really tried to take Harry out, only countering the hexes Harry was throwing, and not allowing him to use any of the unforgivables.

No matter what, I think he remains the most interesting character in the books.

Also, $5 says the last horcrux found will be Harry's lightning bolt scar.
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #19
I think Dumbledore faked it somehow. He was just telling Draco how much it would help in evading the attentions of the bad guys, to have them think one dead.

It's a pretty dodgy game using story-internal arguments in a story where new elements of magic can get introduced from book to book. But I think there's a pretty compelling external argument, namely that if Dumbledore was just wrong about Snape all along, wore himself out getting the wrong locket, and died because age ruined his reflexes enough for Draco to disarm him, then in the series as a whole he cuts a pretty lame and anticlimactic figure. And he's an important enough character that that would substantially damage the series. Whereas if he successfully faked his own death as part of a master scheme, he comes out looking cool. So far Rowling has shown a sound enough dramatic instinct that I can't see her going for Plan A, here.

The Gandalf comparison is undoubtedly the biggest problem, here: the good wizard's comeback has been done. But on the other hand, Gandalf didn't fake it, his return really was a resurrection, and it wasn't his own master plan, but a pure Tolkienian eucatastrophe.

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It is not enough to discover how things seem to seem. We must discover how things really seem.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
By Committee
Member # 4233
Profile #20
Yeah, you could be right... the book did go to a lot of effort to talk about casting without speaking. Perhaps the Avada Kedabra curse was just a ruse on Snape's part to fool everyone.

I think, though, that he's actually dead. The phoenix did spend a lot of time wigging out, though maybe his song was rescuing the big D... Only one person has survived that curse, though, and that's Harry, who probably has a piece of Voldemort's soul in his head to show for it.

A great ending to the book, nevertheless! She probably could have truncated 100 of the first 500 pages or so. Also, there should have been more Dursleys - they're just too entertaining!

[ Tuesday, July 19, 2005 05:30: Message edited by: Drew ]
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 154
Profile #21
No idea why everyone dislikes the first Chapters. I thought they set the times very well.

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Inconsistently backward.
SWOH. IM, PATF, ND.
Posts: 612 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00
By Committee
Member # 4233
Profile #22
quote:
Originally written by Kakakaka:

I can't help but feel Book 6 was disturbingly hollow in terms of it's contents. It just felt like;

Filler
Filler
Filler
Dumbledore Dies (Setup for next book's plot?)
End


Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire!
Member # 919
Profile #23
I'm almost entirely sure that R.A.B. is Regulus, who was killed for deserting Voldemort. Personally, I think he realized his mistake in joining the Death Eaters and tried to destroy the Horcrux in secret. Whether he succeeded before he was killed or not, I don't know, but I don't think Voldemort knows that it's gone - after all, would he have left the cave as Dumbledore and Harry found it if he had known? I don't think the note would have been there if he had, and I think the bowl would have been even more inaccesable. What I wonder, though, is how Regulus obtained the locket? Surely he wasn't a stronger wizard than Dumbledore; who could he have brought along to aid him, and how did the bowl refill afterwards? Magic?

Dumbledore is unquestionably dead as evidenced by Fawkes' singing, etc. His portrait is there, yes, which will probably be a great aid to Harry in the seventh book, but Harry is basically on his own.

I sincerely doubt that Snape is a true servant of Voldemort. After all, he's had countless oppurtunities to take Harry to his master, especially once Dumbledore had died. We know he excels at deception; could he have convinced Voldemort that these oppurtunities never really prevented themselves? Obviously Voldemort would want to kill Harry himself, but I doubt that he'd have a problem with someone bringing Harry to him for that purpose.

As for the Sanpe-Dumbledore thing, I sincerely doubt that Dumbledore was pleadng for his life. He may, in fact, have been pleading for his death - that potion was pretty painful, from the sound of it. Moreover, I think Dumbledore resigned himself to death right from the beginning. He knew that he would eventually have to die; he just wanted Harry to live in order to kill Voldemort. I think Snape is a free agent whose goal concurs with but does not match Dumbledore's. I think he loved Lily (and maybe hates Voldemort because he promised to spare her?) and hated James (that much is obvious), and is torn between the two in regards to Harry. I am sure, however, that he wants Harry to kill Voldemort as much as Dumbledore did. I don't know whether Dumbledore expected his death when it came, but I don't think he was a weak, wasted old man at all. I think he'd already discussed all possibilities with Snape, and I think that when he said he had to get back to Hogwarts to see Snape, he wasn't necessarily attempting to secure his own life. Suicide? Perhaps. Taking a hit for the team? Much more likely. Voldemort probably has more trust in Snape now than he's ever had in anyone, which makes him all the more vulnerable. As for the look of digust and hatred on Snape's face, I think it was either for himself or for what he was forced to do; he did not want to kill Dumbledore, but he felt it was necessary. Remember, too, that the Malfoys are now in a precarious position; technically, Draco has failed. And as for "Don't call me a coward!", I agree with Snape - it must take quite a bit of bravery to destroy one of your main hopes of victory, not to mention what was possibly his closet friend and protector, on his own orders (indirect or explicit). I was angry with Snape at first, of course, but now it seems as though he just did what he had to. What still bugs me is that Dumbledore completely froze Harry rather than muting him or something; wouldn't that have been much more effective? But maybe, for whatever reason, he felt he needed to die.

I'm pretty sure that Harry himself is a horcrux, not just the scar, although were he to become not a horcrux, he might lose the scar. Does anyone remember what happened to the magical properties of the journal once it was stabbed? I know that the ring lost its properties but otherwise remained intact. I don't think that Harry has to die in order to kill Voldemort, then, but he must somehow destroy the soul fragment inside of him without causing excessive harm to himself. It should be interesting to see how this plays out.

What of the other horcruxes? The ring and the journal are accounted for, the snake is known, the amulet is lost but known, I assume Harry is the fifth... what of the sixth? Was it hidden in the Sirius residence? Did Mundungus steal it and unwittingly sell a piece of Voldemort's soul? If the goblet is indeed a horcrux, and assuming Voldemort wouldn't be stupid enough (or able) to make the Griffyndor sword a horcrux, does that mean Harry is a Griffyndor heir or some kind? I never said this about the sixth, but I can hardly wait for the seventh...

All in all, I thought it was a great book. I don't consider myself a Harry Potter fan, but the sixth was well-done. There were plenty of errors, of course, things that could have been done better, but for a novel written as a children's book? You can't expect any better. The characters were all much stronger and more well-defined than in the preceding books, and I like how Rowling mixed magical fantasy with real-world reality - the first chapter, for instance, and Hermione's attempt at subtlety in the shop, and the... uh... racism, I guess, and family conflict and decay, at the end of Slytherin's line. Very well-done, I thought.

quote:
Originally Written by Dolhpin.:
Do you honestly need 268 vertical lines before you realize that what is written below is a spoiler?
Did you really count them all? Seriously, though, I'd rather have it too long than too short, as has often happened in the past. It was only annoying when it was the first post, which was soon amended by Kel.

quote:
Originally Written by Jumpin' Salmon:
It's fiction, and there is magic. Anything could happen, no one is dead, the next book will contain whatever will sell the most copies.
I doubt that anything Rowling writes will significantly affect the number of copies sold; it's the seventh book and anyone who's read the other six will want to know what happens anyway. I mean, she still has to actually write it, of course, or she'd lose her evangelical fans (those who tell others to buy the book, I mean), but she doesn't really have to worry what people think. Anyway, I don't think she's mainly driven by money.

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And though the musicians would die, the music would live on in the imaginations of all who heard it.
-The Last Pendragon

Polaris = joy.

In case of emergency, break glass.
Posts: 3351 | Registered: Saturday, April 6 2002 08:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #24
I would find it highly entertaining to have all of Harry's efforts be futile in the end. Voldemoort wins, and the world goes into a dark age.

*this message sponsored by santa and his minions*
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00

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