Evolution

Error message

Deprecated function: implode(): Passing glue string after array is deprecated. Swap the parameters in drupal_get_feeds() (line 394 of /var/www/pied-piper.ermarian.net/includes/common.inc).

Pages

AuthorTopic: Evolution
Warrior
Member # 4973
Profile #0
Just out of curiosity, I was wondering what everyone's opinion on the theory of evolution is.

Personally, I am a creationist. So, yeah, feel free to beat on me.

--------------------
There are three kinds of people in the world: those who think, those who think they think, and those who would rather die than think.
Posts: 104 | Registered: Thursday, September 16 2004 07:00
Post Navel Trauma ^_^
Member # 67
Profile Homepage #1
Get you to the middle ages!

--------------------
Barcoorah: I even did it to a big dorset ram.

desperance.net - Don't follow this link
Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Agent
Member # 1993
Profile #2
Well, Lighter is from Texas, it fits into the picture to be creationist -_-

--------------------
^ö^ I was a cannibal for twenty-five years. For the rest I have been a vegetarian. George Bernard Shaw
Posts: 1420 | Registered: Wednesday, October 2 2002 07:00
BANNED
Member # 5141
Profile #4
Well, since everyone else feels the need to do nothing but bash the subject, I might as well actually say something pertaining to the subject.

On evolution. I don't care.

On human evolution:
Every species has the ability to adapt. Every animal has several (is it species or race?) branches to their evolutionary chain. Humans are fast becoming an exception. Humans feel that they must "accept" other cultures and races. One way they feel to do this is to interbreed. Breeding between races has become so accepted by the majority of people (excluding racists) that it is now a part of everyday life. Americans do it the most. In America it is not odd to walk down the street and see an Asian and African American couple with a baby. Or a Norwegian and Caucasian. Or any combination for that matter. While this has done wonders to making humans closer to abolishing racism, this has also lead us into a dead end evolutinary path. As mentioned before, every species has several races. If humans continue to interbreed at a increasing rate, eventually, there will not be black or white, but human. Some people think this is a good thing. Imagine a forest. In this forest there are black butterflies, and white butterflies. The forest burns down. Black butterflies continue on their daily life. They blend in with the surroundings. White butterflies are singled out, and easy prey for hawks. White butterflies are extinct within a matter of months. Now only black butterflies are left. It is possible that human evolution will lead somewhere good with interbreeding. However, what if we are the white butterflies?

Beyond that, humans are one of the only animals on Earth that feel the need to withdraw from the world into "controlled" environments. Example: Houses, BioSpheres, SpaceShips (yes, I do realize they would not be able to go into space without them) and so on and so forth. However, humans are also one of the only animals (if not the only one) that destroy their environment instead of living in harmony with it. Every day we pour gases into our air, and chemicals into our water. As the world changes the other animals on this planet will adapt because they are subject to this every day. We will not. Before houses and "civilization" we were tribal and lived outside (or in caves). We were more physically fit, and probably smarter (and better off). Now we exclude ourselves from the rest of the world a good portion of our lifes.

Enough said, we're screwed, and we are doing it to ourselves...

[ Wednesday, November 03, 2004 14:24: Message edited by: RavagedSoul ]
Posts: 38 | Registered: Thursday, October 28 2004 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 4942
Profile #5
We were watching some movie in science today about super volcanoes. In estimating when the last super volc. erupted, scientists found a mass extinction of humans around 80,000 using data from mitochondrial DNA. They suspect the poputlation was reduced to a few thousand. 10,000 at the most. This suggests we are all related somehow. That is loosely related to evolution, and fun to think about.
However I don't really think it or the whole evolution thing matters. We are here now aren't we? I am frying braincells staring at this screen and that is all that matters, if anything "matters" at all...

EDIT: Who says screwing yourself is bad...?

[ Wednesday, November 03, 2004 14:32: Message edited by: Mad Mezzulah ]

--------------------
Wham Bam Shizam
Posts: 247 | Registered: Monday, September 6 2004 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 4256
Profile #6
quote:
However, humans are also one of the only animals (if not the only one) that destroy their environment instead of living in harmony with it. Every day we pour gases into our air, and chemicals into our water.
Actually almost every animal left unchecked will destroy its environment. Once the enviroment is destroyed there is a great popyulation die off allowing the land to recuperate. -Humans just have more intelligence so they can stave off catastrophe for longer. SOO... Nuclear War would solve all our polluting problems with one big blast of pollutants.
Posts: 564 | Registered: Wednesday, April 14 2004 07:00
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #7
Deistic evolution makes more sense than creationism. The idea that is god laid down all the laws of the universe-- physics, biology, etc. then turned on the light so to speak and only intervenes occassionally.

The bible is not a textbook on astronomy or biology. It cannot explain evolutionary change.

--------------------
Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
Profile Homepage #8
Evolution does not always lead to a better product, merely a more evolutionarily fit product. And in this case, 'evolutionarily fit' describes the organism that can propagate itself best.

So evolution, so far as humans concerned, is heading towards the stupid; they're the ones that tend to have 11-12 kids.

PS. I don't believe in Genesis taken literally any more than I believe that pi is exactly three.

[ Wednesday, November 03, 2004 15:15: Message edited by: Fear Uncertainty and Custer ]

--------------------
The biggest, the baddest, and the fattest.
Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 4256
Profile #9
I still don't understand the connection between being stupid and having 11-12 kids....
Why won't anyone explain this to me. I've hashed it out before and like I said last time some of the smartest people I know are from large families (9 or 10 children) but then again some of the stupidest people I know are from large families. The differece between the two was the parents. The stupid kids had had 4 different stepdads and brother + sisters by all of them. No wonder they were miserable. The smarter families had a single set of parents- and had also been schooled by their mother. I don't see any evidence for size of family to intelligence. Why is it stupid to have a large family? That seems to be simply an opinion and some might think a stupid one.....
Posts: 564 | Registered: Wednesday, April 14 2004 07:00
Guardian
Member # 3521
Profile #10
It's not necessarily stupid to have a large family. In fact, it's quite a reasonable proposition as long as one has the income to comfortably support such a family. It's just that, in general, those people that have had substandard educations (the poor, usually) tend to have less knowledge and understanding regarding birth control and contraceptives, and the reproductive process in general. As a result, uneducated people tend to have larger families. I don't believe genetics and evolution have anything to do with this, though. It's a socioeconomic issue more than anything else.

[ Wednesday, November 03, 2004 15:46: Message edited by: A Cool Half Million ]

--------------------
Stughalf

"Delusion arises from anger. The mind is bewildered by delusion. Reasoning is destroyed when the mind is bewildered. One falls down when reasoning is destroyed."- The Bhagavad Gita.
Posts: 1798 | Registered: Sunday, October 5 2003 07:00
Shaper
Member # 73
Profile #11
It mostly applies to poor African and Asian countries, where the majority of families are very large, and unnecessarily so, because they don't realize that having twelve children insures continued poverty. They are still operating in poor farmer mode, even though most of them are not poor farmers. They also have many children because it makes it more likely that some will survive, at least according to rodents. It's actually not true, because having fewer children means better health care and more food to go around.
However, this is not so much because of genetic stupidity, as much as it is because of a lack of education.
In conclusion, while it is true that it's generally stupid to have twelve children, Alec is essentially engaging in intellectual masturbation.

EDIT: Stug posted while I was posting, so we essentially said the same thing, the only difference being that I dissed Alec and will most likely draw flames.

[ Wednesday, November 03, 2004 15:58: Message edited by: The Almighty Doer of Stuff ]

--------------------
The Lyceum - The Headquarters of the Blades designing community
The Louvre - The Blades of Avernum graphics database
Alexandria - The Blades of Exile Scenario database
BoE Webring - Self explanatory
Polaris - Free porn here
Odd Todd - Fun for the unemployed (and everyone else too)
Famous Last Words - A local pop-punk band
They Might Be Giants - Four websites for one of the greatest bands in existance
--------------------
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #12
I have considered the argument that RavagedSoul puts forward against interracial breeding, and eventually I came to the conclusion that it's not valid. I'm not going to nitpick the language of the paragraph, although I could (and it's worded rather badly), but I'll take the general thrust of the argument.

Ultimately, the genetic differences between the "races" — and one has to be careful with that term, insofar as we are talking about race, here, and not ethnicity, which is different; there are three races — are minimal. We're not really losing much in the way of uniqueness when we mix our genetic material. One might as well say that blue-eyed people should not interbreed with brown-eyed people as say that black people and white people should not interbreed.

Moreover, the same argument could be used to argue that people should only interbreed with members of their family. This, obviously, would lead to genetic disaster within a few generations.

In fact, bacteria, whose evolution is quite strong, can exchange genetic packets (kind of like having children, but not) across species. Really, we should be encouraging greater genetic mixture, rather than less — unless we wanted to be eugenists and breed humans like dogs for certain characteristics, but there are serious problems with that, both from a moral standpoint and from a technical standpoint.

While I suppose it is theoretically possible that some all-powerful divine being created this world with the fossil records already intact, and I suppose one could ascribe some sort of motive for such a being to do so, I don't know how it substantitively differs from the possibility that the fossil records are actual history. Whether God created the world in such a way that it appears that dinosaurs existed millions of years ago or whether they actually existed millions of years ago doesn't seem tremendously important in the long run.

Evolution is a useful model insofar as it can suggest to us how things might be done in the future: selective crop breeding, for instance.

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
Profile Homepage #13
When I look to Utopia I see khaki stretching off as far as the eye can see.

--------------------
The biggest, the baddest, and the fattest.
Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #14
Human evolution hasn't stopped; the selective pressures have just changed. I predict that if society in developed countries were left just as it is to see how evolution would progress, a million years or so from now we'd see significant changes in at least our digestive and immune systems. Allergies, asthma (an immune-related disorder) and diet-related disorders are among the biggest diseases of affluence, and we can still stand to lose that appendix too.

However, as a transhumanist, I believe the biggest changes to the human species will be the ones we'll deliberately make to ourselves.

--------------------
My BoE Page
Bandwagons are fun!
Roots
Hunted!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
BANNED
Member # 5141
Profile #15
To Kelandon,

While currently there is very little actual distinction between each "ethnicity" or "race" whatever you want to call it, of human there is a reason for that. The longer races of the same species are seperated, the more their evolutionary paths will differ. Example: Neanderthals, Homosapiens. If humans had been seperated longer, different species of human would have evolved from each race. Each with it's own adaptions to the different climates.

While I realize that you are trying to offend me (or if not trying, you're words were amazingly stupid to the degree that it does, in fact amaze me. Not to offend you or call you're words stupid, merely that if you were not trying to offend me, then you must have the brain of a monkey.) by suggesting that I agree with incest, I said nothing of the sort. I think that humans should have stayed within their own race. English stayed in England, Africans stayed in Africa, and so on down the line. Yes, even if America this "great" country had never been founded because of it.

[ Wednesday, November 03, 2004 16:12: Message edited by: RavagedSoul ]
Posts: 38 | Registered: Thursday, October 28 2004 07:00
Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
Profile Homepage #16
The physical difference between the three races is so miniscule that it takes several years of med school to run into them in a textbook. It's also true that none of the three races have been substantially influenced by interbreeding to this point. Sorry to burst your bubble on that one.

A major catastrophe is never going to hurt humans on a racial basis, because we have a little thing called environmental adaptation. Europeans won't be the only ones to survive a cold snap because, surprise surprise, 90% of humanity lives in houses and all of it has the secret of fire.

In addition, it's only through interbreeding that the best traits will be expressed. Incest might be an extreme example, but it's taking your argument to its logical ends: developing several million distinct races through inbreeding.
A wide gene pool is never a bad thing.

Also, the Africans had rather little choice about staying in Africa, but hey, let's not detract from your racist babbling.

[ Wednesday, November 03, 2004 16:21: Message edited by: Fear Uncertainty and Custer ]

--------------------
The biggest, the baddest, and the fattest.
Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #17
Wow. Somehow we are evolutionarily challenged if we are stupid. This argument has become so standard. It seems to crop up everywhere. Linking ethnicity and intelligence to creationism is a tremendous mental step. I'm not sure in which direction...

Some people are so intuitive on the question of race on this board. They can make great leaps forward. It baffles me.

The bible is an allegory about living for me. I especially like the proverbs and psalms.

--------------------
Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
BANNED
Member # 5141
Profile #18
quote:
Originally written by Fear Uncertainty and Custer:

The physical difference between the three races is so miniscule that it takes several years of med school to run into them in a textbook. It's also true that none of the three races have been substantially influenced by interbreeding to this point. Sorry to burst your bubble on that one.

A major catastrophe is never going to hurt humans on a racial basis, because we have a little thing called environmental adaptation. Europeans won't be the only ones to survive a cold snap because, surprise surprise, 90% of humanity lives in houses and all of it has the secret of fire.

In addition, it's only through interbreeding that the best traits will be expressed. Incest might be an extreme example, but it's taking your argument to its logical ends: developing several million distinct races through inbreeding.
A wide gene pool is never a bad thing.

Also, the Africans had rather little choice about staying in Africa, but hey, let's not detract from your racist babbling.

Are you an idiot? Or can you just not interpret the funny looking symbols on your screen? I never said that there were huge differences between each race. In fact I said there were miniscule ones. So, theres one of the things that "I" said that you pulled out of your ass.

Did I ever say that we are currently being affected by interbreeding? No, I said that it would affect our evolutinary path in th future. So theres # 2 of you're attempt to belittle me shot down.

A major catastrophe will never affect us? Global warming. We stay inside, where it's nice and cool. The Earth turns into a desert. Eventually our wonderfull air conditioning will fail. Or how about this, the people of the world never met one another, Japan runs out of room, so starts digging. A meteor hits the earth, and everyone dies, except the japanese. # 3, "Sorry to burst your bubble on that one."

# 4. The best traits are expressed? I don't think that you even deserve a reply for that.

# 5 I'm a racist? Please, before you EVER think I'm a racist again, remember, just because I talk about "races" in a way that you don't like, doesn't mean you're right. It doesn't mean that I am, but when did I say anything derogitory towards any ethnic group. Please find it, and shove it, because I'm not a racist, and I find it not only insulting, but idiotic of you to think so. Have a nice day.
Posts: 38 | Registered: Thursday, October 28 2004 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #19
We're not intuitive, we're educated. I can't speak for anyone else's credentials, but I've spent two years studying genetics.

RS: We should be working to minimise the impact of evolution as a means of biological change anyway. We're now developing better alternatives.

[ Wednesday, November 03, 2004 16:39: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

--------------------
My BoE Page
Bandwagons are fun!
Roots
Hunted!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
Profile Homepage #20
quote:
Originally written by RavagedSoul:

quote:
Originally written by Fear Uncertainty and Custer:

The physical difference between the three races is so miniscule that it takes several years of med school to run into them in a textbook. It's also true that none of the three races have been substantially influenced by interbreeding to this point. Sorry to burst your bubble on that one.

A major catastrophe is never going to hurt humans on a racial basis, because we have a little thing called environmental adaptation. Europeans won't be the only ones to survive a cold snap because, surprise surprise, 90% of humanity lives in houses and all of it has the secret of fire.

In addition, it's only through interbreeding that the best traits will be expressed. Incest might be an extreme example, but it's taking your argument to its logical ends: developing several million distinct races through inbreeding.
A wide gene pool is never a bad thing.

Also, the Africans had rather little choice about staying in Africa, but hey, let's not detract from your racist babbling.

Are you an idiot? Or can you just not interpret the funny looking symbols on your screen? I never said that there were huge differences between each race. In fact I said there were miniscule ones. So, theres one of the things that "I" said that you pulled out of your ass.

You claimed the differences were due to interbreeding, numbnuts.

Did I ever say that we are currently being affected by interbreeding? No, I said that it would affect our evolutinary path in th future. So theres # 2 of you're attempt to belittle me shot down.



While currently there is very little actual distinction between each "ethnicity" or "race" whatever you want to call it, of human there is a reason for that. The longer races of the same species are seperated, the more their evolutionary paths will differ.

Clearly, 150,000 years isn't long enough for you?

A major catastrophe will never affect us? Global warming. We stay inside, where it's nice and cool. The Earth turns into a desert. Eventually our wonderfull air conditioning will fail. Or how about this, the people of the world never met one another, Japan runs out of room, so starts digging. A meteor hits the earth, and everyone dies, except the japanese. # 3, "Sorry to burst your bubble on that one."

On the minus side, we have global warming. On the plus side, people's life expectancies are generally above 30. I suppose you always have a bit of a give and take when it comes to progress, though.
PS: You're mistaking 'race' for 'nationality', which puts you straight down Hitler Lane. 'Norway' is not a race, nor is 'Japan' or 'The Japanese'. The Norwegians are Euro-Caucasian and the Japanese are Mongoloid; they're genetically identical in every significant way to Italians and Thais, respectively.

# 4. The best traits are expressed? I don't think that you even deserve a reply for that.

Care to back that up with, I dunno, something besides normative garbage?

# 5 I'm a racist? Please, before you EVER think I'm a racist again, remember, just because I talk about "races" in a way that you don't like, doesn't mean you're right. It doesn't mean that I am, but when did I say anything derogitory towards any ethnic group. Please find it, and shove it, because I'm not a racist, and I find it not only insulting, but idiotic of you to think so. Have a nice day.

The belief that the races should and must be separated is one of the tenets of modern racism, and frankly your entire viewpoint seems to be a dramatic and vigorously pseudoscientific apologia for anger that one typically can't vent in public over interracial marriage.

Thanks for missing half of my post, retard. Do your superior white race a favor and get a goddamn vasectomy.

You picked the wrong fight, child. I've been doing this for years. We can be civil and gentlemanly or I can tear your head off; it is, at this point, a binary. Don't delude yourself on this one.

[ Wednesday, November 03, 2004 16:44: Message edited by: Fear Uncertainty and Custer ]

--------------------
The biggest, the baddest, and the fattest.
Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #21
Alec, the Negroid/Caucasoid/Mongoloid division of "races" has been discredited for a good 50 years or so.

--------------------
My BoE Page
Bandwagons are fun!
Roots
Hunted!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
Profile Homepage #22
Fair enough, but it doesn't make him any less wrong.

--------------------
The biggest, the baddest, and the fattest.
Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00
BANNED
Member # 5141
Profile #23
quote:
Originally written by Fear Uncertainty and Custer:

[b]
You claimed the differences were due to interbreeding, numbnuts.

Quote me Suzan.

Clearly, 150,000 years isn't long enough for you?

Obviously you don't know as much as you think you might. 150,000 years is not even close to 150,000 generations.

PS: You're mistaking 'race' for 'nationality', which puts you straight down Hitler Lane. 'Norway' is not a race, nor is 'Japan' or 'The Japanese'. The Norwegians are Euro-Caucasian and the Japanese are Mongoloid; they're genetically identical in every significant way to Italians and Thais, respectively.

I'm sorry, I didn't know that any type of "educated" speech could come from taking the words I say and completely avoiding the point. I do not care if the specific names I used are "actual" races. So, if I don't care about whether or not I use correct "races" while I'm having a conversation with someone who obviously has too large of an ego to allow his brain to see what I write, that makes me have views akin to Hitler?

Care to back that up with, I dunno, something besides normative garbage?

Okay. The "best" traits come out with interbreeding? Well, I must say that the human species is a sad, pathetic, and moronic one. If this is the "best" we can do, even at the start of the interbreeding, then we're obviously not that "superior" of a race.

The belief that the races should and must be separated is one of the tenets of modern racism, and frankly your entire viewpoint seems to be a dramatic and vigorously pseudoscientific apologia for anger that one typically can't vent in public over interracial marriage.

I don't care about races being seperated. I don't care about gays, or interracial, or necropheliacs for that matter. Whatever floats your boat. I never said that it was wrong, merely not a good evolutionary path. I never said all those damn people should go back to their home country because I hate them. Not once. Neither did I ever say anything even remotely CLOSE to a insulting term towards any race. So, really, come up with a better argument before the filth that comes from your mouth spews everywhere.

Thanks for missing half of my post, retard. Do your superior white race a favor and get a goddamn vasectomy.

I am not white. Idiot.


You picked the wrong fight, child. I've been doing this for years. We can be civil and gentlemanly or I can tear your head off; it is, at this point, a binary. Don't delude yourself on this one.[/b][/QUOTE]

Now, if you're opinion mattered to me, you might be able to tear my head off. Some of my points, I don't word the most efficiently. However, some of you're points, are merely filth spewed at me in an attempt to make yourself feel better about your "education". Now, We could tear each others head off, or we could drop it. Or we could be civil about it. It was never an "argument" I never said, you're wrong and I'm right. However, now, I'm saying, you're wrong, and I'm not right, but closer to it then you.

[ Wednesday, November 03, 2004 17:10: Message edited by: RavagedSoul ]
Posts: 38 | Registered: Thursday, October 28 2004 07:00
Guardian
Member # 2476
Profile #24
quote:
If humans continue to interbreed at a increasing rate, eventually, there will not be black or white, but human.
Would that really be so bad? Is it not part of a lesson we all will have to learn, if this planet is to survive us?

--------------------
Polaris
Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00
BANNED
Member # 5141
Profile #25
That in itself would not be so bad, no. However I think that the inability to adapt to various situations would be. Not that we can do it now, but if you read my conversation, you would realize what I was talking about had nothing to do with racism.
Posts: 38 | Registered: Thursday, October 28 2004 07:00

Pages