Very OT: Jeff, you are a genius
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| Author | Topic: Very OT: Jeff, you are a genius |
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Warrior
Member # 4238
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written Friday, April 23 2004 22:33
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I've had a lot of respect for Jeff Vogel ever since I started playing his games, way back when the original version of Exile was available (before the 'graphics upgrade' - anyone else remember that?) and Exile 2 had recently come out for PC. The shareware developer's guide is awesome. That you're willing to provide free advice to potential competitors is incredible. But just today, I discovered the The Scorched Earth Party. You are a freaking comic genius. Move over Carl Sagan; Jeff Vogel is my new hero.  Seriously, I haven't bought a game from Spiderweb since BoE (didn't really like the Avernum interface), but I'm definitely buying BoA when it's available for Windows. The world needs more cool people like Jeff  Posts: 70 | Registered: Monday, April 12 2004 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 3480
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written Saturday, April 24 2004 00:55
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Amen -------------------- What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. Posts: 169 | Registered: Wednesday, September 24 2003 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 3310
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written Saturday, April 24 2004 04:56
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Behind every succesful man, there is an army of Sodomy Squirrels. EDIT: I just realized that this is actually funny. If you are twisted enough, that is. [ Saturday, April 24, 2004 04:57: Message edited by: Seaweed ] Posts: 756 | Registered: Monday, August 4 2003 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 737
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written Saturday, April 24 2004 07:44
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If Jeff is so smart, why doesn't he care at all for his paying BoE customers? -------------------- Who was born in a house full of pain Who was trained not to spit in the fan Who was told what to do by the man Who was broken by trained personnel Who was fitted with collar and chain Who was given a pat on the back Who was breaking away from the pack Who was only a stranger at home Who was ground down in the end Who was found dead on the phone Who was dragged down by the stone Posts: 595 | Registered: Tuesday, March 12 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Saturday, April 24 2004 09:55
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Because they already paid? ?Alorael, who feels perfectly capable of becoming a card- and pipe-carrying Scorched Earth member no matter how bad Jeff's BoE PR is. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 618
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written Saturday, April 24 2004 11:07
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All hail the mighty lead pipe! May it bash people well! I certainly look forward to the new Washington Monument. -------------------- I like to say quack because I can, I like to say moooo because I can, but I don't like saying ergle flmp because I can never pronounce phenomenon first try. In conclusion, quack, moooo and phenonemenonmenonnon... Oh Poo. http://s4.invisionfree.com/Ultimate_RP/index.php Try it! Posts: 1487 | Registered: Sunday, February 10 2002 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3022
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written Saturday, April 24 2004 11:15
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And I ask you this... Why isn't the SE party a real party? We can at least create a variant for psychotic idiots, and use it to split the Republican electorate... :rolleyes: Posts: 269 | Registered: Saturday, May 24 2003 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 4238
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written Saturday, April 24 2004 14:05
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quote:What do you mean? Posts: 70 | Registered: Monday, April 12 2004 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 3349
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written Saturday, April 24 2004 16:19
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I have no idea. All I know is that without Jeff, I'd be living in the sewers hoping someone would come out with a good RPG..... -------------------- Espresso hasn't been invented yet. That stinks. Xian Skull- Avernum 3 Posts: 1287 | Registered: Thursday, August 14 2003 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Saturday, April 24 2004 16:56
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This is sort of what Boeing means. -------------------- Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!! (The home of BoA's HLPM, newly updated to v1.1!) Rate my scenarios! Northern Kingdom 0: Prologue High Level Party Maker Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 2155
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written Saturday, April 24 2004 18:02
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quote:Because there's not enough money in it to justify his time. Jeff's time is valuable to him and to many others, and like the rest of us he probably never has enough of it. He's a husband, a father, the president of an entire company, the lead and sole programmer for his company, a writer, and probably a dozen other things known only to those close to him. He has a toddler to entertain and keep alive, a relationship to hold up, a business to run, a game to fully release, absent minded beta-testers who don?t re-read things to deal with, and I?m sure that?s not even a fraction of the half of it. For a one man job (one man because the other two employees are female) it?s amazing that Spiderweb Software is even remotely what it is at all. I?m sure if he had the time and the resources he?d be happy to provide more support for BoE and be more a part of the community who adores his work, but he has important stuff to do like put food on the table. Providing greater support for a game that will shortly become extremely obsolete in the eyes of most people just isn?t practical or financially sound. Of course he cares about his customers. Without them he?d either starve or have to go work for some big faceless and heartless gaming corporation with big flashy graphics and subpar plots. He?d be subject to ?managers? and ?bosses? and abhorrent schedules as inflexible as titanium steel alloy. (And here you thought he was cynical enough when you met him in Avernum 3.) But the fact is he has limitations on how much time he can spend on one game and still be able to release his next work on time to keep his funds coming in. --- Your ground burning maniac, Necris Omega -------------------- Sanity is a relative concept. And like most my relatives, I rarely see it. "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." ~ Albert Einstein Posts: 168 | Registered: Saturday, October 26 2002 07:00 |
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Babelicious
Member # 3149
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written Saturday, April 24 2004 18:27
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If one does not intend to support one's own product for a reasonable amount of time until it is mature and stable, one should not release said product at all. And in response to this topic: HUFF HUFF OH GOD MR. VOGEL YOU'RE GOING TO GIVE ME STRETCH MARKS -------------------- Beatoff Valley: A story told out of order. Posts: 999 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 4238
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written Saturday, April 24 2004 19:11
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quote:Wow. How old are you? I was slightly drunk and tired and very amused. So kill me :confused: Posts: 70 | Registered: Monday, April 12 2004 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Saturday, April 24 2004 19:21
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Don't tempt him. -------------------- I believe there are 15 747 724 136 275 002 577 105 653 961 181 555 468 044 717 914 527 116 709 366 231 425 076 185 631 031 296 protons in the universe, and the same number of electrons. -- Sir Arthur Eddington Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
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written Saturday, April 24 2004 19:59
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Jeff Vogel made Blades of Exile and then completely abandoned patching it, then sat on several community-driven third-party attempts to patch it. He continued to advertise his involvement with the game in spite of the fact that he gave no indication of caring about it. This was, mind you, before A1 was released. It wasn't a profit issue; BoE's biggest sales were still ahead of it. It was a caring issue. He refused to have any scenario design contests after the first (in spite of the fact it was called the First Annual!). Further contests have been driven by community action. His ineptitude in community relations with BoE designers in taking suggestions on BoA is legendary. He went as far as to suggest that BoE scenario designers, who are the biggest draw to this product, were not paying customers, and espoused all sorts of idiocy that having actually talked to more than two people who played RPGs would have refuted. (A player shouldn't have to adapt. Players want to play in a familiar universe. For the most part, players are not interested in tactical challenge. &c.) He refused to program in changes which would have been reasonably easy, and many of the reasonable and appropriate changes requested to the scenario creation dynamic by BoE designers after six years of experience have still not been granted. SW gamers fall into two camps: 90%+ of them, who recommend BoE first and foremost to new players, and the 10% remainder, who hate Exile's 'obsolete' graphics (we all know Avernum III is on par with NWN, after all), can't stand its engine/combatsystem/and so on, and tell new players to play Geneforge and jerk it into an electric socket. These 10% are insufferable wankers. With BoA out, Jeff Vogel has, again, shown a surprising uninterest in the works of the community he created. His scenario 'Diplomacy with the Dead' is supposed to play very much like a BoE scenario ca. 1998. I find it disturbing that Jeff Vogel makes rather grandoise attempts to claim the support and close-linkedness of the SW community, and at the same time acts more detached from it than the average entering newbie. ('Players don't care about plot and action', he says to people who coined the phrase 'Monty Haul' and consider Alcritas, Bixler, and Stareye living gods, 'they want to play scenarios for phat lewtz'. 'It's unreasonable for designers to cripple reasonable characters,' he says to the people who consider On A Ship to Algiers and Tatterdemalion masterworks, 'if I want to win a scenario with a Conan-style sword-swinger, I should be able to.') Ignorance as to what the community wants and why is nothing new among game designers. I doubt Sid Meier (who shares a LOT with Jeff Vogel in terms of game design aesthetic and philosophy) would know what the most popular Civ III Conquests scenarios are at present, and why. On the other hand, I doubt Sid Meier would run around saying that he's a bigger expert on what Civ fans like than any Civ scenario designer around. And, of course, I'm going to get flamed by random idiots who have no idea what I'm talking about on the sole basis of a game indicative of creative malaise which is essentially a poor fusion of Pokemon and Fallout being the best thing since sliced bread. So be it; won't make me wrong, though. [ Sunday, April 25, 2004 12:17: Message edited by: Custerbly Numb ] -------------------- AnamaFreak (3:59:56 AM): Shounen-ai to the MAX Misogynism is the wave of the future, but it sure pisses the womenfolk off. Shocking, isn't it? Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00 |
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Babelicious
Member # 3149
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written Saturday, April 24 2004 20:08
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Good job, old chap. You're sporting a no-nonsense. -------------------- Beatoff Valley: A story told out of order. Posts: 999 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Sunday, April 25 2004 15:07
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By the way, this is my favorite Spiderweb-related page: Scenario Editor Bugs Page. -------------------- Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!! (The home of BoA's HLPM, newly updated to v1.1!) Rate my scenarios! Northern Kingdom 0: Prologue High Level Party Maker Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 1152
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written Tuesday, April 27 2004 13:35
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hmm... is Jeff runnign again this year? that would make sure neither Karry or Bush win the election, and a random 3rd party candidcate wins. -------------------- -Sylak, the inadvertant killer of threads Posts: 319 | Registered: Tuesday, May 14 2002 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 4238
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written Tuesday, April 27 2004 14:26
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quote:Even if Jeff runs, I know I'm voting for Jello Biafra Posts: 70 | Registered: Monday, April 12 2004 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 34
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written Tuesday, April 27 2004 17:15
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Does ANYONE know where I can find a (preferably free) full version of the original Exile 1, before it got its lemon-fresh graphics? I've been poking around for a copy for many a year now, but somehow, they always evade my grasp. -------------------- Always remember you're unique. Just like everyone else. Posts: 702 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Triad Mage
Member # 7
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written Wednesday, April 28 2004 01:30
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No, because you need to pay for it. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Vahnatai Did Do It desperance.net - We're Everywhere The Arena - God Will Sort The Dead ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
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Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
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written Wednesday, April 28 2004 04:45
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Oh, I'm sure Jeff Vogel will give you a product he worked hard on and has been paid good money for by thousands of people for free if you ask him nicely. After all, you are special. Go stop a train with your torso. -------------------- AnamaFreak (3:59:56 AM): Shounen-ai to the MAX Misogynism is the wave of the future, but it sure pisses the womenfolk off. Shocking, isn't it? Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Wednesday, April 28 2004 06:07
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He just said "preferably," you ogres. Do you know where it can be bought? -------------------- Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!! (The home of BoA's HLPM, newly updated to v1.1!) Rate my scenarios! Northern Kingdom 0: Prologue High Level Party Maker Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 1451
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written Wednesday, April 28 2004 08:19
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Oh man. And I thought that I was the first to think up The Rules... Well, I was, but the SEP program follows them in almost every aspect (only exception is that no one else is to follow The Rules, though). -------------------- I am pleased to make contact with your entities. : http://cku1d19.w.interia.pl : !!Britney Spears/ Fanart/ Hentai Shrine!! Posts: 123 | Registered: Sunday, July 7 2002 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 1152
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written Wednesday, April 28 2004 11:55
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im sure of you found a demo version of it, adn contacted Jeff and payed him he would give you a Reg code... or did the origanal not use the code? -------------------- -Sylak, the inadvertant killer of threads Posts: 319 | Registered: Tuesday, May 14 2002 07:00 |
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