Turns out....

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AuthorTopic: Turns out....
Agent
Member # 618
Profile Homepage #25
quote:
Originally written by dareva:

Piers Anthony! My eyes! My keyboard! Oh, the excruciating pain.
HEY!!!! IF I HAVE TO PUT UP WITH THAT AS MY MIDLLE NAMES I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE REST OF YOU ARE COMPLAING ABOUT!!!!

It's Antony anyway, and some of the stuff he wrote did get some reasonable films spawned from it. Total Recall for one.

Okay, now that I've embarrassed myself enough, by telling everyone my midlle names which I normally keep a deathly secret, I'm going to slink away and buy a chincilla.

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I like to say quack because I can, I like to say moooo because I can, but I don't like saying ergle flmp because I can never pronounce phenomenon first try.

In conclusion, quack, moooo and phenonemenonmenonnon... Oh Poo.

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Posts: 1487 | Registered: Sunday, February 10 2002 08:00
Agent
Member # 27
Profile #26
quote:
the Dragonlance series, etc.
I liked the main Margret Weis and Tracy Hickman series, they are both good authors. I also enjoyed a few of the less known series, like Kang's Regiment.

I agree that JRR Tolkein's writing was not the most enthralling in the world, but the world he created kept me going along in the books.

EDIT: 500th post. Wootness.

[ Monday, April 19, 2004 15:50: Message edited by: Hypocritical Slith ]

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Live teh fez.
Posts: 1233 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #27
Maybe that's part of the reason I liked Tolkien. I enjoy linguistics for linguistics' sake. His writing style definitely isn't my favorite, but it reminds me heavily of epic verse that lost the verse part. I guess his history as an Old English professor and Beowulf commentator came to the fore.

?Alorael, who would like to see Piers Anthony kneel humbly in the dirt and admit that he's like Terry Pratchett, only with the critical flaw of not being funny. His writing is often quite revolting, actually.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire!
Member # 919
Profile #28
He could easily be a children's author, if he took the sexual references out of his books. Not a particularly good one, either.

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And though the musicians would die, the music would live on in the imaginations of all who heard it.
-The Last Pendragon

TEH CONSPIRACY IZ ALL

In case of emergency, break glass.
Posts: 3351 | Registered: Saturday, April 6 2002 08:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #29
I thought that Dragonlance's Legends trilogy was the best fantasy trilogy that I've ever read. I liked the other Weis and Hickman books, too, until the War of the Souls trilogy, which was a crime against humanity.

I rather liked Tolkien, too. I didn't find his prose quite as irritating as most people, perhaps because if I got bored with a paragraph, I would skip it. I did this with maybe one paragraph per page. (I used the same technique to get through the Wheel of Time series, and I actually ended up enjoying the first eight books or so. The tenth one was phenomenally useless, though.)

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Northern Kingdom 0: Prologue
High Level Party Maker
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 3220
Profile #30
quote:
Originally written by iDavid:

He could easily be a children's author, if he took the sexual references out of his books. Not a particularly good one, either.
Do you realize how short the books would be then? I own one Piers Anthony book (it was a gift, shut up) and I estimate that, were it cleared of sexual references, it would be no longer than my nice short DVD/VCR instruction manual. I'm not saying whether this is a good or bad thing.
Posts: 437 | Registered: Sunday, July 13 2003 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 3310
Profile #31
The problem with Tracy and Hickman is that they do stuff that should just be forbidden by the international fantasy novel association. Just when you think "oh god, well, it can't get any more unrealistic than this", they strike. Hey, maybe the whole thing was just a parallel universe lost in time! Hey, maybe nothing was really true!

It's not that they haven't got a whole lotta good ideas and reasonably interesting characters. Too much is too much.

I say, you want good fantasy? You read Robin Hobb.
Posts: 756 | Registered: Monday, August 4 2003 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 4248
Profile #32
Haven't read the Dark tower series. Enjoyed Silmarillion though. LotR is nothing special, and it definetly isn't Tolkiens best book. Dragonlance sucks, but Hickman and Weis have this insane ability to get you read trough all of their books after you've once started, no matter how bad they are (I hated the first book immediatly, but still ended reading trough all Dragonlance series, and other Weis&Hickman books as well). Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the unbeliever are also good. But hey, there are no books which everyone renders good.

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Dont think that the glass is half empty or half full. Think that the liquid is not worth of drinking anyway.
Posts: 617 | Registered: Tuesday, April 13 2004 07:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #33
With Piers Anthony, I did like that series with Death, Time, etc.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
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Drakefyre's Demesne - Vahnatai Did Do It
desperance.net - We're Everywhere
The Arena - God Will Sort The Dead
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You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 3310
Profile #34
I read the chronicles of Thomas Covenant when I was thirteen. I remember them as dark, strange, and far above my intellect. Reading them was not a pleasant experience, but rather uncomfortable. Having to identify myself with a character who suffers from lepra, insanity and commits rape was hard enough for my naive little Eddings-soul.

Guess I'll have to read them again. They are, as far as I know, at least unique in the world of fantasy.
Posts: 756 | Registered: Monday, August 4 2003 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 3608
Profile Homepage #35
The Deathgate series from Weis and Hickman is good. Dragonlance (and all of it's many paths) I can live with. The rest of their stuff, I mainly dislike.

And I love Tolkien's main works, Silmarillion, The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings. The rest I have not read. IMAGE(tongue01.gif)

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- The Great Mister

kommari@gmail.com[/url]
Posts: 972 | Registered: Tuesday, October 28 2003 08:00
This Side Towards Enemy
Member # 3098
Profile #36
I once read a trilogy which I think was authored by Weis and Hickman. The Darksword trilogy. Put me off reading fantasy for a couple of years. Appalling.

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"I particularly like the part where he claims not to know what self-aggrandisement means, then demands more wing-wongs up his virgin ass"
Posts: 961 | Registered: Thursday, June 12 2003 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #37
Weiss and Hickman have a tendency to come up with good ideas and then ruin them in execution. Their good Dragonlance books tend to be simply very well written stock fantasy (not that that's bad, but it's not really original either). The Darksword Trilogy went steadily downhill, yet somehow it gained a fourth book about which the less said, the better. The Deathgate Cycle had potential, but lo and behold, the last three books or so managed to be abominations. My advice is to pick up the first book in a W&H series, read it, and stop there.

The Thomas Covenant trilogies by Steven R. Donaldson are both great. Definitely not light, either in tone or in size, but great. The protagonist is not heroic and not even particularly nice, but it works nonetheless.

Robin Hobb is another great writer, although she has all the problems of Donaldson and then some. Her characters can be downright evil even when they're good guys, not that good and evil are clear very often. Her other pen name has some good works as well, although I can't recall what it is at the moment. Megan something, I believe.

?Alorael, who will now add the obligatory new author to the mix. Read C.S. Friedman's books, especially the Coldfire Trilogy. They're somewhere between fantasy and sci-fi (no, not the lasers and fireballs type), and they're excellent. In Conquest Born deserves recognition for being the book with the highest ration of protagonists to protagonists with whom the reader can empathize.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire!
Member # 919
Profile #38
I've more or less given up on fantasy. A bit of Terry Pratchet every once in a while, sort of like potato chips, and then I go straight back to historical fiction. It's so much better.

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And though the musicians would die, the music would live on in the imaginations of all who heard it.
-The Last Pendragon

TEH CONSPIRACY IZ ALL

In case of emergency, break glass.
Posts: 3351 | Registered: Saturday, April 6 2002 08:00
Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
Profile Homepage #39
I prefer alternate historical fiction.

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AnamaFreak (3:59:56 AM): Shounen-ai to the MAX
...there really is nothing that can compare to hot gay sex with a mythological icon.
--665
Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 4154
Profile #40
EDIT: Gack! I posted after reading just the first page! My post is now irrelevant, so ignore this. Feel free to delete this post, mods!

[ Tuesday, April 20, 2004 16:00: Message edited by: Eldiran ]

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You're a moron if you think I'm not.
Posts: 213 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Babelicious
Member # 3149
Profile Homepage #41
The entire oeuvre of historical fiction, alternate and otherwise:

FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP
HUFF PUFF HUAUGUAUUGH
OH GOD HONEST ABE

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I read the Darksword trilogy. I have no idea why I read them all, but I did. I mostly skimmed the last one, and then I read the preview of the fourth one, and then I went and killed someone. Weis and Hickman are horrible hacks. No author worth their salt produces that many books without the vast majority of them being utter garbage (the Asimov Effect; he was saved by writing a few really awesome series).

I think I remember the Deathgate series. It had the assassin, right? Hugh the Hand? And the child he tried to molest, and the world was a bunch of floating islands in a big tornado, and the elves did mechanical stuff and the humans did magic? See, the general idea didn't suck that much. But the stories themselves sucked and got steadily worse.

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Beatoff Valley: A story told out of order.
Posts: 999 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 2123
Profile #42
Paradise Lost by John Milton. It is the best Epic Poem I have read up to this day (maybe the best book I've ever read).

I'm also reading Dante's Inferno.

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With his last breath he took in more power then any Guardian could hold, then with a scream of pain and furry he unleashed it all to form a barrier betwen the Mantia and the Darkness.
Posts: 228 | Registered: Monday, October 21 2002 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #43
quote:
Paradise Lost by John Milton. It is the best Epic Poem I have read up to this day (maybe the best book I've ever read).
Was this in response to something? Or what?

Paradise Lost rocks, by the way. Milton's portrayal of Satan is the reason I became a Satanist. IMAGE(tongue01.gif)

Seriously, though, all epic poems read like fantasy novels, and the best ones (the Odyssey, Beowulf, Paradise Lost, etc) read like great fantasy novels.

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Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!! (The home of BoA's HLPM v1.1!)

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Northern Kingdom 0: Prologue
High Level Party Maker
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
Profile Homepage #44
quote:
Originally written by Maaya:

The entire oeuvre of historical fiction, alternate and otherwise:

FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP
HUFF PUFF HUAUGUAUUGH
OH GOD HONEST ABE

It's clear you haven't read decent historical fiction. That's mostly:

FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP
HUFF PUFF HUAUGUAUUGH
OH GOD ME
(BOO HITLER)

Maybe 'The Hunt/27' was just a particularly awful work, or maybe I'm insulted by trying to tell a story and using your version of history as a background.
I'd say the defining test of whether a story has a good background to it, in fact, is asking yourself the simple question: could it happen in a different setting? Could this novel set in Germany in the 1930s also occur in, say, Japan in the 1990s? If the answer is 'yes', the author needs to be shot if he goes around calling it 'historical fiction'.

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AnamaFreak (3:59:56 AM): Shounen-ai to the MAX
...there really is nothing that can compare to hot gay sex with a mythological icon.
--665
Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #45
Paradise Lost is the best known book of the New Testament that cannot be found in the New Testament. Honestly, how many people get their Bible knowledge from a book written by a man who just wanted to write some good stuff. It was a close decision between the Bible and Arthurian Legend, interestingly enough.

?Alorael, who also enjoyed the little tidbit that hints that sex before eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was boring, while post-fruit sex was truly mind-blowingly amazing. And the fruit has some hallucinogenic effects. Hmm...
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #46
quote:
Alorael, who also enjoyed the little tidbit that hints that sex before eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was boring, while post-fruit sex was truly mind-blowingly amazing.
I rather enjoyed the suggestion that Satan was jealous of Adam and Eve's sex. "Sight hateful, sight tormenting! These two/Imparadised in one another's arms/... while I to Hell am thrust,/Where neither joy nor love, but fierce desire,/Among our torments not the least,/Still unfulfilled with pain of longing pines."

Or in other words, in Hell, no one gets laid.

EDIT: Happy 250th post to me! w00t! Look out Alorael, I'll be catching up to you soon! IMAGE(tongue01.gif)

[ Wednesday, April 21, 2004 15:38: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

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Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!! (The home of BoA's HLPM v1.1!)

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Northern Kingdom 0: Prologue
High Level Party Maker
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Agent
Member # 618
Profile Homepage #47
Milton was an extremely good wordsmith. He knew his craft to a tee. Even over a century later poets like Wordsworth would mention him in their work. And Paradise Lost is certainly, not just one of the most famous pieces of English works, but a masterpiece without doubt.

Watch your back Kel, I'll get there first. Though it would appear that Alorael is going to have to sit and take his Postliness, like it or not.

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I like to say quack because I can, I like to say moooo because I can, but I don't like saying ergle flmp because I can never pronounce phenomenon first try.

In conclusion, quack, moooo and phenonemenonmenonnon... Oh Poo.

http://s4.invisionfree.com/Ultimate_RP/index.php Try it!
Posts: 1487 | Registered: Sunday, February 10 2002 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 455
Profile #48
John Milton was a derivative bureaucrat paid to gloss political killings in decorous Latin, a job for which his sole previous experience was turning the proceeds of his father's usury towards perfecting himself in the many languages of sophistry. He never wrote a decent line that wasn't lifted from Spenser, Shakespeare, Virgil or Lucan; at Cambridge, his nickname was "The Lady," and his first wife fled to her parents' home within two months of their wedding. His contemporaries denounced him for a pervert and a libertine, and he had the presumption to return the compliment by delivering them with puritanical lessons in morality justifying divorce. When more courageous partisans of the revolutionary cause he claimed to support went to jail or death rather than renounce it, he skulked into "artistic" retirement and mealy-mouthed out a poem which lacks the conviction even to admit it has abandoned revolution. That twaddling Romantics could not think their way beyond his example is all one needs to know about Romanticism, as well as about the British need to innoculate future Indian colonial functionaries with an author arbitrarily chosen to be the civilizing well of English undefiled. Furthermore, he made F.R. Leavis very sad.

And above all, he'd be more likely to accept that description than he would a Telegraph reader patting him on the head for showing himself an "extremely good wordsmith."

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Winter comes: game over -- he's in the driveway removing snow with a flame-thrower.
Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00
Agent
Member # 618
Profile Homepage #49
Except I've never read the Telegraph. Nor do I know anything of the base origins of his work. Thanks for shattering a misconception (not sure if that's sarcasm or not myself).

Even Shakespeare was supposed to have stolen his work. Off of a playwright who "died" in the same boarding house as him. Only rumours abound all sorts, like the "dead" man actually was going to be murdered in revenge for something, yadda yadda, went into hiding, sold plays for a cut. Rumours abound with every user of the English language. You can't open your mouth or even begin to write something without the cry of "Plaguerism!" going up.

But it doesn't matter. It was written. And whomever it is attributed to, it was good work.

And I still don't read the Telegraph.

Or ANY newspaper for that matter.

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I like to say quack because I can, I like to say moooo because I can, but I don't like saying ergle flmp because I can never pronounce phenomenon first try.

In conclusion, quack, moooo and phenonemenonmenonnon... Oh Poo.

http://s4.invisionfree.com/Ultimate_RP/index.php Try it!
Posts: 1487 | Registered: Sunday, February 10 2002 08:00

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