Who cares anymore. Not me.

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AuthorTopic: Who cares anymore. Not me.
Lifecrafter
Member # 3320
Profile #25
There is no sense in speaking to those that don't want to be spoken to. It's like talking to a deaf person who is asleep in a pitch black room.

[ Thursday, February 19, 2004 22:01: Message edited by: Sherlock Holmes - MSW ]

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Mrs. Peacock: "Everything all right?"
Colonel Mustard: "Yep. Two Corpses. Everything's fine."

"Keep your wits about you, the game is afoot!!" - Sherlock Holmes
Posts: 935 | Registered: Friday, August 8 2003 07:00
Master
Member # 1046
Profile Homepage #26
details down to the last atom are not necessary.

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Urban wisdom is not actual wisdom. It's more like the seemingly philosophical statements that sometimes leak out of my strange mind through my mouth, or in the case of message boards, my hands.
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Clan Xeon - Warcraft III clan
Polaris - Weather Balloons YAY
Undead Theories - Don't Ask, Don't Tell
Posts: 3323 | Registered: Thursday, April 25 2002 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 3320
Profile #27
They are when you are setting a particular period in time.

[ Thursday, February 19, 2004 15:06: Message edited by: Sherlock Holmes - MSW ]

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Mrs. Peacock: "Everything all right?"
Colonel Mustard: "Yep. Two Corpses. Everything's fine."

"Keep your wits about you, the game is afoot!!" - Sherlock Holmes
Posts: 935 | Registered: Friday, August 8 2003 07:00
Shake Before Using
Member # 75
Profile #28
Goodbye, MSW.

(The previous post here made no sense.)

[ Friday, February 20, 2004 11:11: Message edited by: Imban ]
Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 4000
Profile Homepage #29
Might as well say my part of it.

From one of the newest n00b's:

Goodbye!

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-TEH BOOGEYMAN STRIKES AGAIN

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And then there's always a Chance nearby...
Posts: 245 | Registered: Tuesday, February 17 2004 08:00
Warrior
Member # 2978
Profile #30
"I don't mind someone telling me tht I made a mistake in an RP post and then trying to show me a better way of doing it. But for god's sakes, why do it in a negative way? I have to wonder if you are like that in real life too. That makes for a bad reputation at this site, any other site, and in real life. And I prefer to have a good reputation wherever I go."

One'll get a bad rep here for being a pain in many different ways, but not for having a caustic sense of humor. I can't believe you've stayed around for so long withuot noticing.

"In saying that, you will probably laugh and say that I have given myself a bad reputation already as a complainer and one who gets angry too quickly at such trivial things. And I most certainly have. But then again, I think I have the right to speak up when I feel the need to. And now seems like a good time, as I really do NOT want to leave this site."

You're kicking up a fuss for nothing and the starved ironistas here will pounce on it, but it's just their special way of saying they love you.

"I will go back and change the way I do things in an RP once more, but I WILL NOT put up with constant nagging anymore. It stops now."

You need to stop making everything personal. A criticism of your RPing skills is not an attack on your value as a human being.

"The type of person I am referring to is someone like Alorael or Premonition or Drakefyre, who put other people's feelings ahead of their own for the sake of being kind and courteous and respectful."

Wow, with three people like that in only 4000 members this place is definitely a lot friendlier than RL, innit?

>Sir David. 120 post is hardly a reaon to recognize me is it? I've always been Emsomething, most recently Emmerdale, and my sig, though prone to change might stand out here simply by being a sig and not an essay or a portal-site IMAGE(Who cares anymore Not me (2)_files/tongue.gif)

[ Thursday, February 19, 2004 15:22: Message edited by: Emscape ]

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Contradictions get me everything I want.
Love is all. Love is Evil.
Posts: 148 | Registered: Tuesday, May 13 2003 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 3980
Profile Homepage #31
Dear Sirs, (are there no ladies in this wrestling for better understanding?)

I am impressed by Mr. Holmes' enlightened and enlightening posts and - Mr. Holmes - I agree with most of your general statements. Your post is completely at odds with the impression I got from your post about the communication disorder syndrome in the "good laptops ..." thread – I suddenly notice that you have become a living person for me. Actually, this means that my inner attitude has changed towards you and this is my responsibility – even if I express it as if you had changed. When will we ever learn?

I have often felt similar anger towards teachers who have criticized students as if the students were lab rats who are not supposed to feel pain. Mentioning the shortcomingsin the students writing rather than the laudable aspects may have saved some teacher's time and may have been motivated by the attempt to direct the students on what they should set their goal on - but the undertone was utterly depressing for the students rather than encouraging. I hated these imbecile teachers!
Then I found out that these "wretched creatures" (my emotion at that time) did not do this for some sadistic purpose but with perfectly benevolent intentions combined with insensitivity. They made a U-turn in this respect without any sign of emotion or even surprise whenever they noticed that the respective student was a person. Maybe the teachers did not even notice their change in attitude.
If professional teachers show such stunning shortcomings - who am I to expect perfection from the fellow members of this community?

Let us be more patient with each other. Amen (I hope this does not offend anybody.)

On the other hand, I have read parts of the Avernum RP and I find Mr. Arancaytar's comments very much to the point and not directed at the person. The "psychiatrist" was just funny and not malicious.
I could not find any essential connection between Mr. Holmes' posts and the rest of the action. Did none of the participants notice this or did they just pretend so? What could they have done?

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Wisdom grows from trying to find structure in our experience - looking backwards in time - while living goes forward.
Theories are expectations that help us live forward - like possible ways to put the mosaic together. If they are worth the effort to remember, they should predict something and in case the prediction does not work out with time they should autodestruct.
And then there is something that we cannot test - something we have inherited in form of customs, attitudes, culture and the spirit of stories told and retold - that is like our individual SQUARE ONE.
This runs deeper than we can know.
Posts: 311 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
Master
Member # 1046
Profile Homepage #32
quote:
Originally written by Sherlock Holmes - MSW:

They are when you are setting a particular period in time.
name five non-newbies on this board that actually want to read through consistently 5-page-long posts that aren't the introductory post of the RP (i.e. the very first post in the thread, not your first IC post), every 5 or so posts.

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Urban wisdom is not actual wisdom. It's more like the seemingly philosophical statements that sometimes leak out of my strange mind through my mouth, or in the case of message boards, my hands.
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Clan Xeon - Warcraft III clan
Polaris - Weather Balloons YAY
Undead Theories - Don't Ask, Don't Tell
Posts: 3323 | Registered: Thursday, April 25 2002 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #33
I, for one, don't mind details. I have to say that getting that many details in every single post can be overwhelming, but it's the same in writing. If details add to the scene, they are good. If they are simply more words on the page, they are bad.

I do mind RP posts and plot threads that don't seem to involve anyone else, but they could be far worse, and they're not impossible to improve.

—Alorael, who has a slightly different take on the insulting criticisms. If you can't handle them you probably should leave, because it's as unreasonable to expect them to stop as it is for the critics to expect you to change overnight. If there's something to be learned from a critique, learn it, and if there isn't, ignore it. Sarcasm won't hurt you, even if it is as caustic as Alec's.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #34
Edit: *raises hand*. That makes Two (if I can presume non-newbie-status by now). Of course, that depends. It is not the detail that is the problem, it is the lack of connection to the plot. Please stop bashing the 'unnecessary details' and instead suggest that the details be made necessary.

____________________________________________________

Dear MSW, Dear Sir David, Dear Fellow Spiderwebbers.

Starting out, I am not sure that the above address is necessary, or even beneficial. It may work to defeat the purpose of my post. I realized by now that many of the debaters here react sensitively to being directly addressed; and being named personally at the start of such a lengthy text as this must feel like a confrontation or an attack to some. So maybe I should continue my post by being general, and by addressing this community as a whole rather than singling out members. Please forgive me if the following sounds like a high school paper on Theory of Knowledge, but I thought it might be a good approach to be rational here.

I feel that the origin of this thread and its content is a problem of communication. You may keep in mind that we are speaking only via the written word, which is an imperfect and risky way of communicating. Words and phrases are nothing but small symbols that we as a group of speakers of the same language have learned to attach more or less common meanings to. The problem is that these meanings vary, and a certain text can be interpreted in many different ways.

In oral communication, this source of misunderstandings is remedied by using other symbols than words: We clarify our intentions with the tone, the stressing, the gestures and facial expression. Think how differently the sentence "I never said he stole money," can be interpreted depending on which word is stressed. A (verbally) dreadful insult, delivered at face level and with a friendly smile and a jokular tone of voice, will not usually be taken as an insult. A very civil statement, said in a certain tone with a certain expression, can be like a blow. It is the tone that matters.

A very significant problem arises in this specific situation, which impedes communication. We lack the means to speak in a certain tone. When I write a sarcastic post which I actually mean like a friendly taunt, it can come out on the other side like a really bad insult.

In that context: Rather than an explanation, an apology on my part is a more apt response to the quote of my post above. It is true, as Sir David pointed out, that the post is not meant to put anyone down, and is probably interpreted much more sensitively than I intended (Someony once said that words are more powerful and treacherous than we think, which is certainly true in this context). However, in addressing another member I mentioned a third person in a negative way as an example, and did so on a public forum where the third person would almost infallibly see it. This is not any nicer on the internet than it is in real life (you don't want someone badmouthing you behind your back, do you?). I apologize for this, MSW.

Now for the explanation. Djur posted 'Dead Ones' as a response to the question of what type of Roleplayer he would prefer. That, of course, was a more or less jokular comment, not to be taken seriously. Because just at that moment I had realized one more important thing about RPing, relevant to this statement, I took Djur's comment seriously (also as a joke, of course). The feeling that I was reading things into his 'Dead Ones' statement which just plainly weren't there reminded me of a psychiatrist. That is the reason for the sarcastic '*psychiatrist voice*'.

What I was trying to say was:

I have realized that two things are necessary to make a good RPer. Both Mr. Procrastinator and Teh Invisible Noob have said as much in their posts, but let me restate.

A Roleplay is, in effect, the joint activity of writing a story. That is all there is to it. The emphasis says it all: Roleplaying requires

a. the ability to write good fictional texts, and
b. the ability to work in a team with the other players.

I hope that most of you will see my point when I say that while these boards sport a few of those rare individuals who can both write well and work superbly with other players, there is an overwhelming number of those who lack at least one, if not both, of these skills.

But: What The Heck?

So what if someone finds it difficult to fit in with a plot in a roleplay? I have difficulty talking in front of even very small group, even composed of people I have known most of my life. I stutter and panic if I do not have a script, and I read my text in a tongue-twisting speed if I do. I feel awkward when the attention of several people is on me. I am sure that many here have similar problems (hey, the majority of us people are only here because we're antisocial loonies with no lives, right?). This trait is nothing to be ashamed of, and it is certainly nothing that cannot be remedied through motivation and practice.

Concluding, I agree with Mr. Procrastinator that one of the problems on this board is lack of patience. We try to be teachers (and we are certainly not bad at it, and better than some I have known), but we fail to recognize the importance of acknowledging successes. Our 'students', those who we wish to teach RP-ing to, cannot be treated like AI's capable of learning, or circus animals trained to do tricks, but must be treated as persons. When the student solves the problem you posed, and you rush along and say: "Well enough, but you made this mistake and you did not do this well, and this is flawed, and let's go on to the next exercise." Then the student will sooner or later lose hope of ever achieving the teacher's seemingly endless expectations (can you picture climbing a ladder that sinks into the ground faster than you can climb?).

The teacher must now and then stop to say "You did this extremely well. I certainly did not expect, nor even hope for, such a good progress in such a short time. You should watch out for this bit, it is easy to make a mistake there. And you might try to be more clear in this place, some may find it hard to understand what you mean. Now do you want to try the next exercise?"

Do you see the difference?

Respectfully,

Arancaytar

PS: It is harder to write this than it may look. As I said, it is easy to be misunderstood using only written text. If anyone finds anything in here to be insulting, please rush to point it out, and I will clarify, and — if necessary — apologize.

[ Thursday, February 19, 2004 17:27: Message edited by: Arancaytar ]

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"And all should cry, Beware, Beware!
His Flashing eyes, his Floating hair!" S. T. Coleridge
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"It is as if everyone had lost their sense
Consigned themselves to downfall and decadence
And a wisp it is they have chosen as their beacon." Reinhard Mey.
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Quote of the Week: "I have a high opinion of myself, which makes up for my total lack of intelligence." Anon.
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Babelicious
Member # 3149
Profile Homepage #35
Dear People Who Write Posts As Letters:

May a burly Mexican spirit you away at night and teach you how to love.
Posts: 999 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 3320
Profile #36
Sorry, I made the other topic before I read the new posts here.

Thanks Arancaytar. Now I can see how my name came into it. I have learned to stick to the plot and I try my best to do that. I have been doing much better with that, more recently than I was several months ago. But it didn't work out too well in the Avernum topic for me. (See paragraph after next one)

This brings me to the other RPer trait. Working with others. Unfortunately, I lack greatly in this trait. However, it isn't because I am selfish and want my character to be the only one around or because I want the RP to revolve around me and control it. It's because I am worried that I will mess up somehow while using another RPer's character in a scene. I have done it several times before and I am afraid of doing it again because I don't like being yelled at for it.

That's why I didn't interact with hardly anyone during the Avernum RP and stuck basically to my own plot. I wanted to be apart of the RP, but by the time I realized how complicated it was, I was already waist deep in it and couldn't find my way out. I was terrified that if I tried to use any of the other RPer's characters, I would end up ruining something for them or the whole RP and be blamed indefinitely for it.

As for the new RP, I found that this RP was right up my ally because I am an amateur historian and love studying history. Hence, my two posts that were full of details about the prohibition era. They weren't necessary, by my instinct to tell about history took over. I am planning to replace my two posts, after I edit them severely and incorporate the needed changes into them.

However, one point concerning introductions in RPs bothers me. I have been told that I should edit the characteristics into the IC: itself, but I find that hard because I had just adapted myself to making a list of them at the beginning of the post, which I learned from other RPers. Now I am being told that lists are annoying and I am supposed to adapt again. I can do that, but it is going to take some time. It isn't easy to adapt so quickly, considering I just mastered the other method.

Nevertheless, I'll try to catch on to it.

[ Thursday, February 19, 2004 22:02: Message edited by: Sherlock Holmes - MSW ]

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Mrs. Peacock: "Everything all right?"
Colonel Mustard: "Yep. Two Corpses. Everything's fine."

"Keep your wits about you, the game is afoot!!" - Sherlock Holmes
Posts: 935 | Registered: Friday, August 8 2003 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 1877
Profile #37
Aran, you must change your sig, its 422 brains now!

MSW, it seems to me that you are going to stay, but I would still advise you to join Polaris (I don't mean CHANGE to Polaris of course). People are much more friendly there (Unless a certain person beginning with M and ending with Organ comes stumbling in). I am currently participating in the Sleeper Service RP, but its not like "Hey! Maximum 3 RP’s!" there. Meet you there?

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MDNZZZ
ZMMMBIS
WBLOONZ

33111-CRUSADER-4849
Posts: 662 | Registered: Friday, September 13 2002 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 3320
Profile #38
IMAGE(Who cares anymore Not me (2)_files/wink.gif) Sure. I have been wanting to go there for a while. I visited there once, but that was at a time when I was much less social with people than I am now. It might be different for me now. IMAGE(Who cares anymore Not me (2)_files/biggrin.gif)

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Mrs. Peacock: "Everything all right?"
Colonel Mustard: "Yep. Two Corpses. Everything's fine."

"Keep your wits about you, the game is afoot!!" - Sherlock Holmes
Posts: 935 | Registered: Friday, August 8 2003 07:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #39
Morgan is not Morgan at Polaris. Morgan is the killer of Anastasia at Polaris. Or so some people would say.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
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Drakefyre's Demesne - Vahnatai Did Do It
desperance.net - We're Everywhere
The Arena - God Will Sort The Dead
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You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 2104
Profile Homepage #40
I thought this topic was supposed to be about What's his face leaving. Has he left yet? No. All he does is whine about how no one listens. I do believe he should go away if he truly thinks no one cares about what he says.

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Professor Frost gives me ideas.
Professor Frost has many an eye.
Professor Frost always foils my plans.
Posts: 549 | Registered: Thursday, October 17 2002 07:00
Shaper
Member # 22
Profile #41
I haven't been visiting Polaris enough to ascetain whether Drakey speaks the truth. The killer of Anastasia? Really?

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KazeArctica: "Imagine...wangs everywhere...and tentacles. Nothing but wangs and tentacles! And no pants!"
Posts: 2862 | Registered: Tuesday, October 2 2001 07:00
This Side Towards Enemy
Member # 3098
Profile #42
Anybody expecting Spiderweb boards to be uniformly friendly is in for a surprise. Some people are naturally caustic. Some are even more so when writing, as there's less accountability. This doesn't make them bad people, or if it does not to a horrific degree.

I haven't read any of the RPs and have no desire to, so my comments will be short, since I can make no reference to details. Mervyn Peake is a good example of too much detail.

And whilst I'm also fascinated by history, many aren't. If you want to post it in Galactic Core, you'll get a few hours discussion on the matter before it gets the locking it so richly deserves.

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Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned
I'll tell you my story, man
Though I wish I'd never been born
I'm loose at the seams,
I've broken my dreams
And my hand it shakes the pen
Come on, come on now baby,
Let the good times roll again
Posts: 961 | Registered: Thursday, June 12 2003 07:00
Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire!
Member # 919
Profile #43
You were the killer of Anastasia on the old Polaris, Morgan. Now you are nothing.

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And though the musicians would die, the music would live on in the imaginations of all who heard it.
-The Last Pendragon

TEH CONSPIRACY IZ ALL

Les forum de la chance.

Incaseofemergency,breakglass.
Posts: 3351 | Registered: Saturday, April 6 2002 08:00

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