Republican, Democrat, etc.

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AuthorTopic: Republican, Democrat, etc.
Agent
Member # 27
Profile #0
I'm curious to what the majority of the people are on this board (The American ones anyway.)
I'm a Democrat.

[ Thursday, November 13, 2003 18:08: Message edited by: Incorrigible Slith ]

Poll Information
This poll contains 3 question(s). 47 user(s) have voted.
You may not view the results of this poll without voting.

function launch_voter () { launch_window("http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=poll;d=vote;pollid=MthmvMWzKAVc"); return true; } // end launch_voter function launch_viewer () { launch_window("http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=poll;d=view;pollid=MthmvMWzKAVc"); return true; } // end launch_viewer function launch_window (url) { preview = window.open( url, "preview", "width=550,height=300,toolbar=no,location=no,directories=no,status,menubar=no,scrollbars,resizable,copyhistory=no" ); window.preview.focus(); return preview; } // end launch_windowIMAGE(Spiderweb Software Boards Republican, Democrat, etc1_files/votenow.gif)[/url]     IMAGE(Spiderweb Software Boards Republican, Democrat, etc1_files/voteresults.gif)[/url]

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"Wow, fish."
Hahahaha, I crack myself up.
Posts: 1233 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
Profile Homepage #1
Social Populist. Democrat when it's convenient.

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In a word, gay.
--Bob the Impaler

Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00
Guardian
Member # 3521
Profile #2
I'm a liberal-minded person, but I tend to go by issue. Used to fancy myself a conservative, but since Bush began his reign I have abandoned all of that. While I support big government and social programs, I tend to be conservative in terms of certain specific social issues. On economic issues I am staunchly liberal, and like most, it seems, on these boards I oppose heavy defense spending and the recent actions by the Bush administration. I thought the Afghanistan war was justifiable and necessary, but the Iraq war has struck me as being singularly unnecessary. However, the worst crime of the administration has not been the initiation of combat operations in Iraq. It has been the systematic manner in which it has lied to the American people. Oh, so many lies. Far too many to list here. But, overall, I think of myself as a thinking centrist.

[ Thursday, November 13, 2003 21:50: Message edited by: Stughalf ]

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"Let a man find himself, in distinction from others, on top of two wheels with a chain- at least in a poor country like Russia- and his vanity begins to swell out like his tires. In America it takes an automobile to produce this effect."- Leon Trotsky
Posts: 1798 | Registered: Sunday, October 5 2003 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #3
Since I'm still too young to vote and I'm quite aware that my voice won't make a difference anyway, I prefer contriving wacky political systems rather than supporting someone sane. My latest is parallelism: each person gets to be ruled by the political party he or she voted for.

On a more serious note, while my views are broadly leftist, I don't honestly believe I know enough about the world to have the right to hold a political opinion.

[ Friday, November 14, 2003 00:15: Message edited by: Faustus K. Shame, M.D. ]

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I believe there are 15 747 724 136 275 002 577 105 653 961 181 555 468 044 717 914 527 116 709 366 231 425 076 185 631 031 296 protons in the universe, and the same number of electrons. -- Sir Arthur Eddington
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 1877
Profile #4
Here home in Norway, all the politics ar screwed up annyway; "Well we have served the bus companies good, in many many years!", "We hav payed akceptable prices, and not mocked". "Then one of the mayors "servants" say; "We wil raise the prices and make the bus go just to the traficed zones!", this means that if you live in a area where its bad bus opertunitis, you are screwed if you need the bus! BAH!

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MDNZZZ
ZMMMBIS
WBLOONZ

33111-CRUSADER-4849
Posts: 662 | Registered: Friday, September 13 2002 07:00
BANNED
Member # 4
Profile Homepage #5
Green, Democrat if they actually go with Dean (because at that point the Greens won't be putting OUT a candidate).

My vote also is invalid, and will be for the next election. IMAGE(Spiderweb Software Boards Republican, Democrat, etc1_files/frown.gif) Personally, I'm more for basing the right to vote off of things that this republic needs more than people who have lived longer, such as literate/intelligent people who actually are cognizant of what they're voting for.

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We're all amazed but not amused
By all the things that you said you'd do.
You're much concerned but not involved by
Decisions that are made by you
But we are sick and tired of hearing your song,
Telling us how you are going to change right from wrong,
'Cause if you really want to hear our views,
You haven't done nothin'.

Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Shaper
Member # 496
Profile #6
I voted for the lemurs in this poll and no one in RL. As in the US, the opposition parties in UK are too much of a joke to give our incumbent ruler decent competition, even if he deserves electoral humiliation.

Sort of related to this, they think 40-100,000 will take to the streets when Bush turns up in London next week. I suspect some are taxpayers enraged at the £4m Blair is making the police spend keeping the demonstrators away from Bush - and all those TV cameras. The US electorate mustn't see how the majority of people in UK hate both Bush and his ongoing occupation of Iraq, eh? Wouldn't do to have a INFORMED ELECTORATE or anything, right?

My sympathies are with the demonstrators, as board regulars will know. Bush is an unutterably cowardly little pecker who wants huge sections of central London closed so he can cower and hide from public opinion, just like he had all aircraft banned from flying above Rome when he visited there (annoying for me, trying to leave through Fuemanchino international airport at the time!). He must be the most gutless, pampered president the US has had in over a century, Republican or Democrat, as well as being the most stupid (Reagan was smarter, even with his Alzheimers).
Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00
Agent
Member # 366
Profile #7
I am a Tory and proud of it!

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I say never be complete. I say stop being perfect. I say let's evolve. Let the chips fall where they may.
Posts: 1277 | Registered: Sunday, December 9 2001 08:00
Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
Profile Homepage #8
I dunno. We've had some real stinkers -- Nixon was a paranoid megalomaniac, and pretty much every president from Wilson to Roosevelt was a conservative, feckless ditherer.

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In a word, gay.
--Bob the Impaler

Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 3643
Profile #9
Nixon at least had some competant people to carry out the job. Although I don't agree with many of the views of Henry Kissenger, he is a very competant diplomat, and could at least carry an opinion for more than a few months, unlike the current secratary of state. The very sad fact in this matter is that Bush despite a wrecked Iraq and weak economy still has a big chance of winning. People seem to have the impression that he's the "national security" candidate, while American citziens are dying everyday because of his folly. This is mostly because of the media. In an effort to counteract the image of a "liberal media" which never had any basis in the first place, they've swung to the right, right into the hands of the Republicans.

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Don't ask the Oracle unless you're willing to get the slurred drunken truth.
Posts: 24 | Registered: Monday, November 3 2003 08:00
Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire!
Member # 919
Profile #10
I said Independant, because I really don't want to be associated with a political party unless it is in the center. Democrat = Left, Republican = Right, Sir David = Center, therefore Democrat * Sir David and Republican * Sir David. I'm sure some of you will call that B.S. because anyone who believes in God and thinks that the war in Iraq is necessary is a radical conservative ( IMAGE(Spiderweb Software Boards Republican, Democrat, etc1_files/rolleyes.gif) ) but really, I am a moderate/centrist/whatever you want to call it. I'm not old enough to vote, and unless something changes between now and then I will probably end up registering as a Republican, because I do lean to the right; I'm not perfectly centered, obviously.

I am unsurprised to find that most of you are not vote-inside-the-lines type people... or at least according to the poll, you're not. That's good, because I despise vote-inside-the-lines people, Democrat or Republican.

As for Bush, Blair, Iraq, the economy... *sigh* all I can say is How the hell did the media find so many idiots with decent writing/reporting skills? OK, I lied, that's not all I can say. But seriously, from the newspapers you'd think that the world is about to explode and Bush is sitting on the TNT lever. Really, people, it's not as bad as you think. Can you say "yellow journalism"? The fact is that newspapers sell more, and news channels get more viewers, when the news is bad. Therefore, our economy which "hasn't been this bad since the Depression" is actually on the rise; the "angry mobs of Iraqi citizens" are actually a small minority, and Bush, though he may not be the smartest man in the world, is not a complete idiot. But why am I saying this? Please, people, if Spiderweb has become more open-minded since I left, let me know. If not, if they are still listening only to liberal views and calling the rest B.S. before it shows up on the screen, then I think I'll stay away from debates.

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And though the musicians would die, the music would live on in the imaginations of all who heard it.
-The Last Pendragon

TEH CONSPIRACY IZ ALL

Les forum de la chance.

Incaseofemergency,breakglass.
Posts: 3351 | Registered: Saturday, April 6 2002 08:00
Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
Profile Homepage #11
quote:
Originally written by Sir David:

I said Independant, because I really don't want to be associated with a political party unless it is in the center. Democrat = Left, Republican = Right, Sir David = Center, therefore Democrat * Sir David and Republican * Sir David.
You're centrist like Fox is fair and unbalanced.

I'm sure some of you will call that B.S. because anyone who believes in God and thinks that the war in Iraq is necessary is a radical conservative ( IMAGE(Spiderweb Software Boards Republican, Democrat, etc1_files/rolleyes.gif) ) but really, I am a moderate/centrist/whatever you want to call it.

Give a dog a bad name and hang it, please? You have more conservative viewpoints than you seem to think.

I'm not old enough to vote, and unless something changes between now and then I will probably end up registering as a Republican, because I do lean to the right; I'm not perfectly centered, obviously.

Again, you aren't doing anyone any favors by denying what you are. You're a rightist. Maybe today you're something LIKE centrist in America, but by any reasonable standards, the Dems are barely center-left.

I am unsurprised to find that most of you are not vote-inside-the-lines type people... or at least according to the poll, you're not. That's good, because I despise vote-inside-the-lines people, Democrat or Republican.

Intellectuals typically fail to be such.

As for Bush, Blair, Iraq, the economy... *sigh* all I can say is How the hell did the media find so many idiots with decent writing/reporting skills? OK, I lied, that's not all I can say. But seriously, from the newspapers you'd think that the world is about to explode and Bush is sitting on the TNT lever. Really, people, it's not as bad as you think.

160 Americans will never come home from Iraq. 10 of those were inflicted before Bush declared the war over. Afghanistan is like it was before, only now with several Talibans which kill people to gain power, the draft offices are quietly gearing up on a scale unheard of since Vietnam, and the US has pissed off the world so badly that diplomatic recovery will be impossible for decades. The economy? The jobless rate is stable at 9%. It is ideally supposed to be no higher than 6. That is about 25 million breadwinners whose families will starve. You, on the other hand, could eat McDonalds nightly and chase it down with Code Red. Optimism is the luxury of those who have never seen hardship.

Can you say "yellow journalism"?

What, like the "yellow cake" issue with Nigeria? The "incompetence" of Hans Blix? The "hidden WMDs"? Yeah, I can say "yellow journalism" just fine.

The fact is that newspapers sell more, and news channels get more viewers, when the news is bad.

The fact that bad news sells better doesn't necessarily make it untrue.

Therefore, our economy which "hasn't been this bad since the Depression" is actually on the rise;

In money terms, yes. In human terms, those millions of people's families are going to choose between Alpo and Iams for dinner tonight. I suppose that, to the right, money is all that matters.

the "angry mobs of Iraqi citizens" are actually a small minority,

Which is why 150 American soldiers have been killed in peacetime, the rest stationed there aren't coming home for a long time, and the guardsmen and reserves are being called up to serve in a PEACEFUL country.

and Bush, though he may not be the smartest man in the world, is not a complete idiot.

I agree. "Bush as an idiot" is a common and horrific myth; he is rather intelligent. He is merely a complete and utter sociopath when it comes to people's lives. 500,000 people dying as a result of "shock and awe" didn't matter to him. 25 million people going hungry as a result of his "soak the rich" tax programs didn't matter to him. All he cares about is the power and glory of America and his rich buddies. You ever hear him make one of those "endearing gaffes" about war, destruction, killing, and so on? What ARE they about? Education? Feeding one's family? Think on it.

But why am I saying this? Please, people, if Spiderweb has become more open-minded since I left, let me know. If not, if they are still listening only to liberal views and calling the rest B.S. before it shows up on the screen, then I think I'll stay away from debates.

I'm intelligent enough to know what's propaganda and what isn't, David, right or left, and I find you assuming I'm not to be rather insulting.
Please do respond to this as if it were an intelligent rebuttal from an intellectual source, not in the usual "I'm right, you're wrong, here's some more grievances I have with the state of the world" nonsense you seem to be fond of.



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In a word, gay.
--Bob the Impaler

Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00
Warrior
Member # 3417
Profile Homepage #12
<nitpick>

Actually, given the current population of the U.S. of 292MM, the incremental amount of jobless would be 8,777,760 at a rate of 9% as compared to 6%.

I'm not sure it's fair base an performance argument on the entire jobless rate since, as you mention, there is a fairly constant historical y-intercept.

This is not to say that 8MM jobless is any better than 25MM, just making a point.

</nitpick>

Also it seems that there are a lot of indicators that the economy is starting to pick up, which we should all rejoice in. Typically the unemployment recovery lags behind the more financially-based economic indicators anyway since it takes time for businesses to recover to the point of hiring after the indexes pick up. Hopefully another 6-12 mmonths and things will be back much closer to "normal".

A personal observation - Ease up on the vitrol a little bit. I don't think anyone has been trying to be inflammatory on this thread. I was kind of taken aback by sudden escalation of the thread by the previous post.

[ Friday, November 14, 2003 14:39: Message edited by: mortification8 ]

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Posts: 70 | Registered: Monday, September 1 2003 07:00
Senile Reptile
Member # 547
Profile #13
I've been doing lots of thinking. None of it about politics, thankfully. That's a can of worms that'll stay closed for a long time to come. I'm a registered Republican, because in America you can't vote in the primaries unless you register under a certain party affiliation. However, I'm probably going to change to an Independant, because I care about the simple principle of being affiliated with one large generalized group.

Politics should be looked at issue-by-issue, and not by party platform.

Just my 2 hypocritical cents. IMAGE(Spiderweb Software Boards Republican, Democrat, etc1_files/wink.gif)

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Polaris
Posts: 1614 | Registered: Wednesday, January 23 2002 08:00
Guardian
Member # 2339
Profile #14
I like democracy, but I'm too young to be in a political joke-er-party.

I enjoy cheese.
Silly rabbit, Trix are for kids.

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Posts: 1779 | Registered: Monday, December 9 2002 08:00
Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
Profile Homepage #15
Then call me Mr. Numbers, I suppose. To be fair, I had forgotten to exclude those outside of the ability to work, which screws that number up real nice.

And I found Sir David's post to be rather confrontational, personally, but that's probably just because I have a greater history with his typically hamfisted apotheosis of his political position -- he is rather delusional as to what other people believe, stating that he is a "moderate" despite being a right even by NATIONAL standards, much less the standards of this community; he is infamous for generalizing his opinion onto the boards (e.g. "I think that Saddam Hussein should be removed from Iraq at all costs" becomes "It's clear we all believe that Saddam Hussein should be removed from Iraq at all costs", even if it follows a page and a half of arguement WHY that shouldn't happen), and for acting the martyr when he realizes these generalizations are miles off.

I'm sorry if I offended you, and thanks for the numbers. (The point stands just as well if it's 8M people without a way of making the money they need to eat well as 25M.) And they say the economy is turning up, but as it turns out, projections for it END around 2009 -- which, incidentally, is the year the baby-boomer generation starts retiring! -- and they depend on the unemployment rate reflecting the number of jobless. It doesn't; it has fallen only because the definition of "unemployed" doesn't consider someone who's been jobless for more than a certain amount of time unemployed. (They obviously aren't looking for work.)

Generally, there has been a lot of "ignore the problems and roll over when he proposes a tax cut and everything will get better" over the economic chaos as of the Bush administration. The ONLY upward trends in the economy at present are rather easily traceable to war profiteering. Even if we don't have a hypocritical-economics president like Bush after 2004 (or 2008!), the American economy won't be back in order for a long time.

EDIT: If I felt mean, I could point out that by "Independent" Motrax probably means "Royalist". Then again, I don't feel mean IMAGE(Spiderweb Software Boards Republican, Democrat, etc1_files/tongue.gif)

[ Friday, November 14, 2003 18:06: Message edited by: Saishuu Heiki Custer ]

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In a word, gay.
--Bob the Impaler

Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 1723
Profile #16
I get tired of people "Bush-Bashing". Look, whether or not you agree with his policy decisions, it's pretty immature (and pointless) to make personal attacks on him. If you had the media seven inches up your rectum, they'd find some pretty bad things about you, too. We have had worse presidents. We have had better presidents. We will have worse presidents. We will have better presidents. (I hope) He is our president. Calling him a coward and a weasel and whatever else only makes you sound like an idiot. If you've met him and gotten to know him, maybe then your opinion about him as a person would be worth more than a teaspoon of crap. We can debate about how good a job he does as president, but let's leave the insults out of it.

By the way, this is directed mostly at X, and I am in no way defending his political decisions, just pointing out how stupid some of the personal attacks on him have been. Thanks.

EDIT: Didn't even realize until after my post how well my new sig matched it. <Chuckle>

[ Friday, November 14, 2003 20:07: Message edited by: Aarrow Swift ]

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"... and approximately one sea turtle."
Posts: 277 | Registered: Tuesday, August 13 2002 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 3239
Profile #17
I agree. If he was voted as prez, then he is the prez until his term runs out or he gets impeached. Until then, you are stuck with him and throwing bad remarks about him isn't going to get anything done. That's all I have to say.

I love cheese. IMAGE(Spiderweb Software Boards Republican, Democrat, etc1_files/biggrin.gif)

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I AM TEH BOOGEYMAN CORP.

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And since the stupid link won't work, I'll use this one:
Chance Forums
Posts: 203 | Registered: Saturday, July 19 2003 07:00
Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
Profile Homepage #18
So should we still be stuck with him even though he wasn't elected President? IMAGE(Spiderweb Software Boards Republican, Democrat, etc1_files/tongue.gif)

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In a word, gay.
--Bob the Impaler

Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00
Babelicious
Member # 3149
Profile Homepage #19
Wait. You're not allowed to say bad things about the President?

Then how will anyone know how to vote? If the President is wrong, you should say so. If the President is right, you should say so. Just because he's the chief doesn't make him infalliable or inviolable.

Honestly, whether Dubya is intelligent or not is totally irrelevant. His policy is straight out of the New American Century handbook, and his cabinet is right out of its commissioners. You don't need to be intelligent to execute a master plan; you just need to have the ability to manipulate, which Dubya has in quantity.

And nearly every word in Sir David's posts is soaked in kerosene.

[ Friday, November 14, 2003 22:05: Message edited by: Conspiracy Duck ]
Posts: 999 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00
Guardian
Member # 3521
Profile #20
quote:
Calling him a coward and a weasel and whatever else only makes you sound like an idiot.
Calling anyone a weasel as an insult is a horrible slandering of weasels! Please use a substitute term.

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"Let a man find himself, in distinction from others, on top of two wheels with a chain- at least in a poor country like Russia- and his vanity begins to swell out like his tires. In America it takes an automobile to produce this effect."- Leon Trotsky
Posts: 1798 | Registered: Sunday, October 5 2003 07:00
Warrior
Member # 3417
Profile Homepage #21
I'm sorry if I offended you, and thanks for the numbers. (The point stands just as well if it's 8M people without a way of making the money they need to eat well as 25M.) And they say the economy is turning up, but as it turns out, projections for it END around 2009 -- which, incidentally, is the year the baby-boomer generation starts retiring! -- and they depend on the unemployment rate reflecting the number of jobless. It doesn't; it has fallen only because the definition of "unemployed" doesn't consider someone who's been jobless for more than a certain amount of time unemployed. (They obviously aren't looking for work.)

No skin off my nose. Mainly I try to be optimistic nowadays and look at the bright side of things. From where I sit there has been, for the first time since 9/11, some real improvement to the economy. Let's hope that trend continues.

We've probably got bigger problems to worry about by 2009 than the lack of economic predictors. We might all be underwater or something by then. IMAGE(Spiderweb Software Boards Republican, Democrat, etc1_files/smile.gif)

There is no arguing that employment has taken a real hit from a combination of factors, and that the pre-dot.com bubble highs will probably not happen again in our lifetimes.

Final point - I think that the sad truth of modern government is that no one elected official, even the president, can make that much of a change (at least in domestic policy) to the welfare of the average citizen. Programs and budgets are typically set years in advance and most agencies have been on auto-pilot since the 80's.

And just in case anyone here was worried, Congress recently voted themselves another pay raise. I know I was losing sleep about it just the other night. IMAGE(Spiderweb Software Boards Republican, Democrat, etc1_files/biggrin.gif)

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Posts: 70 | Registered: Monday, September 1 2003 07:00
Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
Profile Homepage #22
Oh, the poor darlings were starving before, weren't they? IMAGE(Spiderweb Software Boards Republican, Democrat, etc1_files/tongue.gif)

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In a word, gay.
--Bob the Impaler

Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00
Shaper
Member # 496
Profile #23
Perhaps Aarrow Swift could cite a WORSE president since 1900, or any example of Bush Jnr behaving at all bravely or intelligently. Go on - surprise me.

Sure he's just a front man for transparently obvious corporate / ideological interests, but equally it is an indictment of them that they chose such a worthless individual as Bush for this role, methinks mainly for dynastic reasons. As a front man, his personal / presentational qualities are why he is where he is, so it's sort of ridiculous to say we shouldn't criticise these qualities when inadequate.

It is also disingenuous to say Bush shouldn't be criticised "as he's president". If he can only be criticised when he's left office--despite richly deserving immediate censure--then he never will. He has crassly exploited ambiguities between himself as an individual seeking personal / clique advantage and as 'neutral' head of state, especially in his capacity as commander in chief of the bogus 'war on terror'. Too few Americans--esp. Democrats, despite being the elected opposition--have called him on this for fear of McCarthyite accusations of lack of patriotism and 'unAmericanism'.
Posts: 2333 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00
Senile Reptile
Member # 547
Profile #24
A worse president?

Mr. Harding, 1921-1923

Royalist, eh? IMAGE(Spiderweb Software Boards Republican, Democrat, etc1_files/eek.gif)

EDIT: Added smiley.

[ Saturday, November 15, 2003 08:58: Message edited by: On a Given Sunday ]

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Polaris
Posts: 1614 | Registered: Wednesday, January 23 2002 08:00

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