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Changes for Geneforge 5 in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Eugi
Warrior
Member # 8338
 written Tuesday, March 27 2007 00:51 Profile #6
I'm down for number: 2, 3 (please license something from Baulder's Gate or something!), 4, 5 (can you give us the option to disable the images and "tips" all-together? no mantter how many you make they'll still get annoying after a while) and 10 (like a Vlish but heal/buff/support).

Number 13 makes me laugh and think of this:
IMAGE(http://www.thealmightyguru.com/Reviews/Ultima/Humor/SS-7.gif)
Posts: 85 | Registered: Sunday, March 18 2007 07:00
An editor. in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Eugi
Warrior
Member # 8338
 written Tuesday, March 27 2007 00:40 Profile #75
Thank you to those that posted their scripts!

If anyone else has code to share I recommend sites like this for all your code-pasting needs :cool:
Posts: 85 | Registered: Sunday, March 18 2007 07:00
Artifact List? Also, Shaped Boots?? in Geneforge Series
Eugi
Warrior
Member # 8338
 written Monday, March 26 2007 22:39 Profile #0
So I'm cruising through Geneforge 3 with Matt P's guide (ok Matt, your guide is actually very nice. Not up to my unrealistic anal-retentive "must-complete-everything-graahhhh" standards but still very nice :P ;) ) and am starting to get a good deal of shaped items.

Going from the guide there are only... eight artifacts in the entire game? And none of them happen to be artifact boots, correct? If so, I'm a bit confused as to why Shaped Boots exist as I can enchant any boots I please with the crystals I find.

Just to be sure, here are the artifacts listed in Matt's guide:

Creator Belt
Crystalline Shroud
Essence Aegis
Ring of the Infiltrator
All-protector
Lightning Girdle
Avenger’s Ring
Emerald Chestguard

Also, is it possible to enchance any item more than once? Or use more than one crystal (spike, orb, etc) during the enchanting process?

Thanks!

[ Monday, March 26, 2007 22:50: Message edited by: Eugi ]
Posts: 85 | Registered: Sunday, March 18 2007 07:00
G/A/E muitiplayer? in General
Eugi
Warrior
Member # 8338
 written Friday, March 23 2007 11:52 Profile #6
quote:
Another point against an Avernum multiplayer game (I can't speak for or against Geneforge)... the sheer size and general emptiness of the caves would probably make for rather dull gameplay, at least in the normal context of an MMO.
OMFG OP said no "phiosofical" responses gais!!! :P

quote:
...so then I realized I was digressing into why an MMO won't work, and wasn't quite addressing the question. Multiplayer wouldn't be all that interesting, except maybe some sort of co-op campaign mode. I'd play that.
Haha yeah. Most of the people in this thread seem to equate multiplayer with MMOs (why!?!?!?!?!?!) for some reason. To me, when the OP mentioned multiplayer I thought more of a Diablo style gameplay where you can start a game and other people can join you (your party) to play through an area or several levels with you.

quote:
]Jeff doesn't have the kind of funds needed to absorb a major loss; if the game didn't succeed in a big way, SW would likely go under.
What's so major being discussed here that Jeff would have to shell out so much cash for? Scripting a protocoll to allow for simply co-op (at least LAN based) sounds like something right up Jeff's alley to me.

quote:

[QB]1) Turn-based combat and multiplayer games are pretty much incompatible, unless you want to spend a lot of time waiting for other people to take turns.
Wrong. Change the game mechanics to include a timer for multiplayer/co-op games. Meaning, you have a predetermined amount of time (say, 45 seconds) to complete your turn and spend all your AP. You can, of course, click the "End Turn" button earlier or click it right away to pass. It'll take work to implement, sure, but turn based combat is far from a show stopper in multiplayer or even MMO games.

Edit: My own two cents is that Jeff would be in a win-win situation if the next game (from whatever series) included co-op play mode either over internet (hard) or LAN (easier). Heck, partner with Gamespy Arcade and you might even get more customers! Also, will any kind of multiplayer anything in SW games allow for twinking, player-killing, griefing, swearing, and other such? Sure. However I've yet to here anything where these things in on themselves should stop innovation.

[ Friday, March 23, 2007 11:58: Message edited by: Eugi ]
Posts: 85 | Registered: Sunday, March 18 2007 07:00
Why were these game decisions made? in Geneforge Series
Eugi
Warrior
Member # 8338
 written Friday, March 23 2007 11:44 Profile #5
quote:
Comparisons are odious, you know. Baldur's Gate was made by a team of dozens of programmers, designers and artists. Spiderweb Software is basically one guy and his wife.
On the one hand I agree. I'm glad that Geneforge (and other games that I'm looking forward to trying) exist and I do enjoy my time with them so far.

On the other hand, allow me to flip that argument on you by reminding you of the events on the second island in GF3 where the Lankin et al whined that Diwaniya did not do enough to fulfill his part of the social contract despite the player seeing first hand how stretched Diwaniya really is. Same applies here. Regrettably there are some situations where your best is simply not enough.

quote:
As a general rule, expecting game mechanics to make any kind of sense is expecting too much.
I understand. I am not trying to imply that I expect hyper-realism from RPGs but it's frustrating to be banging your head against conventions not found in many other games and that seem to exist with no attempt at an explanation.

quote:
Geneforge 4 at least improves the "pack mule" aspect somewhat, as you're no longer slowed down just by carrying a lot of items.
You mean the PC is no longer "encumbered" by going over his weight limit in a fight? Overall, after re-reading what I wrote I'd say that I don't mind this decision per say. The other characters (Alwan/Greta) not having an inventory (in my opinion) detracts from their "humanity" but being so limited does force me to make strategic decisions in regards to my stats and how I travel.

quote:
If you could get a full party without making creations, there wouldn't be much point to being a Shaper, now would there?
You make an excellent point. Checking the screenshots for the other GF games I see a similar GUI design (character slots) in play. I do wish this was changed somewhat so as to not raise player's expectations of having a full eight-person team whether or not they play a shaper though :(

quote:
Regarding a relationship between Greta and the PC, though, I should mention that Jeff Vogel doesn't believe in characterising the player character; his philosophy is that the PC belongs to the player, and the game designer doesn't have a right to say what kind of person the PC is.
Ok, fair enough. In that case I am surprised that Jeff does not, at least, leave that option on the table. Meaning, having the NPC approach (or giving the PC the option to approach) the other party member and leaving the outcome of those interactions in the player's hands. I feel that as long as the player is given a choice (ala whether the PC wants to help the Shapers or the Rebels) Jeff does not break his principle.

quote:
What's your point, exactly? You'd rather the game had fewer women? Why does it matter?

The sad thing about the society we live in is that if 95% of the characters you met had been men, you probably wouldn't even have noticed the lack of women.
My point had nothing to do with men and women as a sex per say. I am surprised and somewhat agitated by the fact that everywhere I turn there seem to be women to the point of abnormality. Unless the GF society (based, as I see it, in part, on the Middle Ages) is radically different from ours I see no logical explanation for so many female guards! To be more specific I am befuddled only by the female guard captains I speak with (not Latila or anyone else). Anyway, I'm nitpicking. If this trend persists I will simply go and edit the conversation scripts for the game :P

quote:
Geneforge 3 is widely considered the worst in the series, so if it's the first GF game you've tried, you might just want to try another one instead.
I am somewhat apprehensive when it comes to trying the older games in the series because if GF is so open ended (when it comes to player choices) having only two factions and has so little fan-base support (it seems) I have no idea what I'd do when faced with three or four competing factions in GF1 or GF2. :o

quote:
With a player base only 1% the size of BG's, it's hardly surprising that there are fewer people around who can give you gameplay advice -- and besides, isn't one good walkthrough enough?
Not when it s...uc..ksssss.... :(

Zevis and Spent Salmon - Thank you for pointing out the problems with the Search function. It'll suck having to manually read the threads (since most of them have really lame titles like "NEED HELP PLZZ") but hopefully google will help me out :P
Posts: 85 | Registered: Sunday, March 18 2007 07:00
What's in the hintbooks? in General
Eugi
Warrior
Member # 8338
 written Thursday, March 22 2007 22:18 Profile #2
Ok, that's cool.

Do the hintbooks (admittedly I'm talking about Geneforge 3 Hintbook but any experience folks have is appreciated) have all the artifact recepies? List of quests along with quest rewards? Area descriptions and general item/stat list for the game? Skill progression lists? Suggestions on character builds (especially the recommended Mechanical/Leadership skill level needed for certain parts of the game)?

Thanks :)
Posts: 85 | Registered: Sunday, March 18 2007 07:00
Why were these game decisions made? in Geneforge Series
Eugi
Warrior
Member # 8338
 written Thursday, March 22 2007 22:11 Profile #0
Even though Geneforge (Geneforge 3 that I'm playing now, to be specific) has some unique sides to it I can't help but compare it to Baulder's Gate when I play through it.

As such I am baffled by some of the design choices made in GF3. Particularly frustrating (and, in my opinion, plain dumb) is the Flask/Spore issue. Namely, you can use Flasks only on yourselves and have to scrap together spores for your teammates. What gives? What's logically preventing me from using a flask on a teammate or giving it to them to drink? Oh yeah that's right...

...the fact that I'm the ONLY character with an inventory. While I understand the added strategy aspect this brings the game (especially since there are no bags you can use) I am severly upset that I act as a pack mule (sweating under pounds and pounds of burden) as my companions stroll through the countryside. An ugly picture that leaves me confused!

On this topic the equipment can only be changed for the PC leaving your two human companions (I've yet to hear of any more that can join you as actual party emmbers) as nothing but glorified summons whose stats you can increase. Ok, I understand, I guess I can deal with that but...

Edit: This reminds me - there are eight party slots and in most adventure games all these slots are filled by the end of the game with new allies/pets/summons. In GF, unless I'm playing a shaper, I can expect to solo most of the game (especially as an agent). This seems like an incredible waste to me!

...what's up with the lifeless dialogue of these characters? Alright, I understand they represent two sides of the "debate"/"moral quandary" of the game. That's cool. Some of Greta's speeches are actually quite well written. However the two characters focus so much on the "hate rebel"/"help rebel" aspect that they come across as flat! Two dimensional! (both literally and figuratively!!) This is quite a turn off when compared to the intricate relationship in Baulder's Gate. Greta is the worst since there's no relationship between her and the PC - no sexual tension no nothing! I swear, I will violate her with an Acid Baton if she keeps preaching to me!

Finally I am confused and befuddled by the abundance of women in the game. 95% of the guards I've spoken to are identified as women. Strangely some are referred to as women in one dialogue and then as men in the next. Is this some crazy bout of politicall corectness on the creator's part or something else that I'm missing?

Aynway, apologies for the rant, just wanted to get some things off my chest. GF is a great game that I hope to finish but it can be quite frustrating at times. (No dedicated shortcut list? No way to remap keys? WTF!?!?!?!?!) Hope GF4 is better as I fear some players may be turned off the series due to (what I feel are) some clumsy design decisions.

Oh, and allow me to pre-empt any "don't like it don't play it"/"go back to Baulder's Gate then"/"how dare you criticise Geneforge" people. As I said, I like the game but find it frustrating flawed at times. PCG was spot on when they nailed GF as a diamond in the rough.

Edit Edit: Final gripe - what's up with what feels like a total lack of community support for the game? I realize it's a smallc ommunity and Geneforge 3 is an "old" game but there's only one attempt at a walkthrough online and finding relevant threads on this forum is worse than looking for a needle in a haystack. Makes me wonder what the 1,000+ threads were all about :rolleyes:

[ Thursday, March 22, 2007 22:20: Message edited by: Eugi ]
Posts: 85 | Registered: Sunday, March 18 2007 07:00
Problems with Help the Rebels quest. in Geneforge Series
Eugi
Warrior
Member # 8338
 written Thursday, March 22 2007 21:59 Profile #0
After scanning the FAQ and searching the forums I have found absolutely zero information about this.

My problem is that I grabbed the Lankin's Canister as soon as I saw that. When I go to the rebel camp he gives me the quest to destroy the crystal (something I've already done at that point) and then immediatly pressures me into decideing how I want to handle the cainster.

(Off topic I chose to break it. There's a funny bug in the game though. The first time you are asked you have the option of Escaping from the conversation (red checkmark button at the lower right). If you rapidly hit escape you can navigate out of Lankin's range so the entire dialouge dissapears. Of course when he confronts you again you can no longer do this.)

Regardless of what I've tried, even when I'd give him the canister, he won't reward me for destroying the crystal or at least even taking the quest off my quest list. Suggestions (besides restarting and not grabbing the canister right away)?

Thanks!
Posts: 85 | Registered: Sunday, March 18 2007 07:00
What's in the hintbooks? in General
Eugi
Warrior
Member # 8338
 written Thursday, March 22 2007 21:51 Profile #0
I'm playing through Geneforge 3 right now and having a blast. However I am very anal-retentive when it comes to my gaming and have to explore every nook and cranny. Regrettably the GameFaqs FAQ is a bit on the short side and since GF3 is an older game the GF Forums offer absolutey ZERO help as far as searching goes.

Therefore I am thinking of getting the GF3 Hintbook. I was wondering if anyone else here has ordered one (for Geneforge or another game) and what the format of the book is like (actual bound book, crappy Kinkos job or a PDF) and what's in the book (just lame "hints" or a full competent walkthrough)?

Thanks in advance!
Posts: 85 | Registered: Sunday, March 18 2007 07:00
NOOOO!!!!!!!! in Geneforge Series
Eugi
Warrior
Member # 8338
 written Monday, March 19 2007 21:25 Profile #12
Macs are far from the answer. I assure you that you need not spend thousands of dollars on gawdy bauble with blinking lights.

From what you describe you simply emptied out your Recycling Bin instead of Shuft+Deleting your items. If so, recovery should be pretty easy. Take a few minutes to search Google or download.com for a program (possibly like this one) that allows you to recover deleted files. Use said program to get your files back.
Posts: 85 | Registered: Sunday, March 18 2007 07:00

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