Profile for Stillness
| Field | Value |
|---|---|
| Displayed name | Stillness |
| Member number | 7723 |
| Title | Lifecrafter |
| Postcount | 701 |
| Homepage | |
| Registered | Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
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| Author | Recent posts |
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| Social Degradation and Religious Decay (Split from "Life on Europa") in General | |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Wednesday, July 25 2007 04:49
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quote:To name a few reasons - One loves God. Recognition that his way is the best way. Desire to do what’s right. Desire to live forever. Love for ones neighbor and a desire to help them do the right thing and live forever. A wish to see the world become like it should be. Desire to be reunited with loved ones who will be resurrected. It’s not as complex, illogical, and mysterious as some make it out to be. It’s mostly simple, clear, and logical. The stuff that’s not simple is not so much illogical as it is amazing or perplexing. Such is life though. At the risk of sounding like an idiot sometimes I just stare at fire or electricity or red velvet mites and wonder. I know we have some understanding of how nature works, but that doesn’t make things less marvelous. I’m constantly in awe. Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
| Life on Europa in General | |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Wednesday, July 25 2007 04:16
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I think there's some why along with the what and how. Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
| Life on Europa in General | |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Tuesday, July 24 2007 12:07
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I think it's more than just a desire for interesting things. Space is so vast and mysterious. I think people are hoping to find the answers there that they can't here. The stars have long held a spiritual place in the hearts of some. I think the hopeful will keep meeting with disappointment as we see more and more barren space the further we look. Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
| Social Degradation and Religious Decay (Split from "Life on Europa") in General | |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Tuesday, July 24 2007 04:15
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The OT sheol is not equivalent to the NT gehenna. It's equivalent to hades. And they are used with the exact same meaning. I think this confusion and bad translating is why some think there was a switch. I have a couple of translations that seem to recognize the problem going from biblical languages and simply transliterate so you can clearly see the sameness: Psalm 16:10 (NRSV) For you do not give me up to Sheol, or let your faithful one see the Pit. Acts 2:31 (NRSV) Foreseeing this, David spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, saying, 'He was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh experience corruption.' Gehenna is used to picture eternal destruction. It was a literal place were refuse and dead considered unfit for burial (e.g. criminals) were discarded and burned. Matthew 10:28 (NWT) And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna. Some translations translate "gehenna" here as "hell." They also translate sheol and hades the same way. But, Jesus analogy between the lawless seen as unfit to be buried who's body was dumped in a garbage dump to be burned or consumed by maggots and the lawless that God saw unfit to live and so annihilates them would be readily understood by his listeners. They would no more think that God was going to torture people forever in "gehenna" than they themselves tortured people in a garbage dump. Death in Hebrew and ancient Christian thought was a unconscious state of inactivity. The adoption of other ideologies came after the Bible was complete. There are a handful of references in the Hebrew and Christian parts that could seem to be implying different (especially depending on the translator), but a critical look at context and language reveals uniform view of death and punishment. It also becomes clear that God is not sadistic as some claim. He is seen as long-suffering, but not permissive. Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
| Social Degradation and Religious Decay (Split from "Life on Europa") in General | |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Monday, July 23 2007 12:42
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Drew, can you quote where I backpedal and where I show disbelief in nonbiblical historical accounts please. I have no clue what you're talking about. Otherwise I'll have to assume you are a product of public schools and lack good reading comprehension. I think the neighborhood, congegation, and/or family can provide plenty of social interaction. I also think a smart parent can do a good job. Not that it's easy, but I think they can outshine public education. If I had kids I'd look into it. I went to magnet schools from middle school to high school and I'm sure my wife and I could do a better job and avoid some of the nonsense that goes along with public schools. One of my best friends was homeschooled and I see no lack in him. In fact in a lot of ways he came out ahead IMO. Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
| Social Degradation and Religious Decay (Split from "Life on Europa") in General | |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Monday, July 23 2007 09:50
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I don't know what you mean by venerating aspects of another time. You want me to venerate Cicero? I'm not "backtracking." I'm saying the same exact thing about homeschooling that I said in the first place. I know people that were homeschooled and they do quite well. They generally do better booksmartwise and if the parents made sure they had plenty of social activity they're perfectly fine all around. I'm not saying this is the best option, but it's not bad if done right. My real point was about using knowledge. Problem: There is a drug problem in your neighborhood. Solution 1-Give your child heroine so she knows what it's like and can make a decision based on experience. Solution 2-Warn her about drugs and keep her away from drug dealing and abusing people. Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
| Social Degradation and Religious Decay (Split from "Life on Europa") in General | |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Monday, July 23 2007 07:59
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I don't deny we have acces to more information, but that doesn't account for what we see. Yes we've had school shootings, children getting crazy at parties, war, divorce, etc in the past. I acknowledge that. What I'm talking about is scale. If you can't see it I don't really know how to do a better job. Look for yourself and see or not. And somebody at a different time saying morals were decreasing has nothing to do with now. Maybe they were declining, maybe they were not. I don't know how you keep reading ignorance as a tool into my posts. Do you think home schooling makes someone ignorant? I wasn't saying parents should home school, I was saying that parents should be informed that things may be different than when they were children and prepare their child accordingly. Why shouldn't children be sheltered this way? If my teenagers are invited to a party where there will be people dancing as if they were in a strip club I'd want to know. There's no way I'd let them go. I don't think that's overly protective. They can party with children in a more wholesome environment, but not like that. Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
| Social Degradation and Religious Decay (Split from "Life on Europa") in General | |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Monday, July 23 2007 05:11
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Drew, I really don't think increase of information is what's happening. And I'm not saying let's be ignorant. I'm saying let's open our eyes - that's the exact opposite! jg, your quote is dishonest. Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
| Social Degradation and Religious Decay (Split from "Life on Europa") in General | |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Monday, July 23 2007 03:32
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? Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
| Social Degradation and Religious Decay (Split from "Life on Europa") in General | |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Monday, July 23 2007 03:02
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I don't think arranged marriage is all bad. Some work out fine. I think it's good for the husband and wife-to-be to have some decision making though. I certainly would not be for a Christian marrying someone of another faith because their parents made a deal. Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
| Social Degradation and Religious Decay (Split from "Life on Europa") in General | |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Sunday, July 22 2007 22:21
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Don't worry and be afraid, but adjust, prepare, and use the knowledge to your advantage. For example, if parents know that the environment in school is more sexually free than when they were in school and they recognize that this is a danger to their child they might choose to home school or teach the child differently to prepare them for the challenges. If a person recognizes divorce is an increasingly strong possibility based on the numbers and they don't want it to happen to them then they need to identify the most successful way to be happily married and go with it. Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
| Social Degradation and Religious Decay (Split from "Life on Europa") in General | |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Sunday, July 22 2007 21:44
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What have we been talking about for the past ten pages? Nothing? I'm talking about moral breakdown, not the deaths in and of themselves. If America had school shootings over the past hundred years like we do now I'd have no point. And it's not just the shootings themselves but the threat of them that looms over us now. Some decades ago threats were no big deal, now we have to take them seriously. That changes people. Do you think it doesn't? It's unfortunate when the bizzare becomes normal so that people no longer recognize it as such. Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
| Social Degradation and Religious Decay (Split from "Life on Europa") in General | |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Sunday, July 22 2007 21:18
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Because something doesn't kill you doesn't mean it's not symptomatic of bigger problems. Lightening has nothing to do with society. Increase in school shootings does. Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
| Life on Europa in General | |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Sunday, July 22 2007 21:11
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I was sad to see this topic die as I thought it was much more interesting than the religion one. I never really got the answer to my question of why some seem to be so hopeful. I figured my curiosity was not shared and so just let it go. I would be shocked if we found life on other planets, but I'm not hopeful either way. I think the impact on me would be based on the nature of the life elsewhere. If it was exactly or basically like the animal life we see here, it wouldn't change my view of the universe much. Which brings up another question: What if the life we found elsewhere was exactly like it is on this planet? Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
| Social Degradation and Religious Decay (Split from "Life on Europa") in General | |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Sunday, July 22 2007 20:53
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As always Synergy, I agree with much of what you have to say, yet you miss the mark. The idea of hellfire as a place of unending suffering does not appear in the Bible in either Testament. In the very last book Hell itself is said to be destroyed by being thrown into the lake of fire, which “means the second death,” which means eternal destruction. I do see a progression of thought between the old and new, but it’s a continuum, which is why I don’t even separate the two into “testament” divisions. The nature of God, the nature of death, the nature of punishment for sin, etc., are unchanged. God is one. He is loving and forgiving, but his patience has limits. Death is unconscious nonexistence. Sin merits death, nothing more. Only resurrection can save and extend life. There’s no immortal soul to receive blessings or punishment. The soul dies. It’s always odd to me when people see these drastic changes and conflict between the OT and the new. If you want to, you can take certain OT references out of context and take them to imply that there’s some afterlife (e.g. Saul’s contact with “Samuel” through a spirit medium) just as well as some NT references (e.g. Jesus parable of the rich man and Lazarus). In truth though the idea that people don’t really die occurs in the very beginning of the Bible as a lie told by the Devil. Jesus referred to this incident 4000 years after when he told the Jewish religious leaders that they were liars like Satan. But, he and his apostles and disciples after him taught that death was a sleeplike state – just like the Hebrew prophets. The deviation of Christendom from this simple teaching occurs as you said, only later. -------- Randomizer, Christianity has no moral contradictions. It’s as monotheistic as Judaism before it. The Jews may have strayed and adopted other religions, but the scriptures don’t condone it. Listing Abraham’s instructions to sacrifice Isaac does not support that. It was foreshadowing and he fully expected Isaac to be returned alive to him. Most notably, God did not allow him to harm him at all once he showed he was fully obedient. And if you look at the account, please note the slaughtering knife. He was not going to be burned alive. quote:Seems contradictory. If you love your children and they love you - why the laws and headship? What is the basis for your theory of family and marriage? If it’s based on success, I’m all ears. All good and successful organizations need order and assigned roles. If people want to run their marriage as a two-headed one with both mates sharing equivalency as western morality dictates, I respect that. But if you’re relying on western values to determine your own, then be prepared to take the bitter with the sweet. The bitter is that vales are definitely declining. How you all don’t see that boggles the mind. I’m 31. When I was in school we didn’t have school shootings. If we did, they were very rare and not a major concern. All of a sudden, in my senior year of high school we need metal detectors. It was surreal. Now you won’t be shocked if you wake up and hear there was a school shooting. The standards of decency have declined also. The music we listened to as teenagers was so much more obscene than anything my parents have. A decade later and they’re playing that stuff on the radio. And it’s not just like it’s harmless music. The things we take in with our ears and eyes – the movies, internet, TV, music - influence us. If you can’t see it, ask your parents or your grandparents. And don’t just brush their response off as each generation thinking the next is worse. There may be some of that, but look at the hard facts and let them speak. My uncle showed me a video of a party his son had recently and he told me that if you wanted women to dance like these teenagers were when he was that age you’d have to pay. That’s not just his opinion or anecdote. I constantly hear about parents everywhere being shocked at what goes on at their kid’s parties. And please don’t get me wrong – we’ve always had these things with us. They’re just more common now. And it’s not just in the States – it’s happening all over. If you have access to eastern/middle-eastern foreigners in their 30+ or maybe even younger just ask them if their society is what it was a few decades ago in terms of morality. I speak to a lot and the answer is always “no.” Now, maybe you do see the changes, but simply think it’s not a big deal. Or maybe you think some social progress balances the decline out. I guess we’d have to agree to disagree. Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
| Social Degradation and Religious Decay (Split from "Life on Europa") in General | |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Friday, July 20 2007 18:13
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quote:What is the difference between your mind and your spirit? Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
| Social Degradation and Religious Decay (Split from "Life on Europa") in General | |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Friday, July 20 2007 14:05
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I would think he didn't feel a sense of responsibility towards them or he felt it, but he was to lazy to let his guilt influence him. Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
| Social Degradation and Religious Decay (Split from "Life on Europa") in General | |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Friday, July 20 2007 09:33
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I think it's connected to a sense of responsibility towards others. If you have a roommate and it's your job to do the dishes,but you opt to chill out in front of the TV, you did not carry out your community responsibility and therefore feel guilt. If you live alone there's no guilt. You may convince yourself that you are not responsible to pay for software you'll only use once thereby removing guilt. Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
| Social Degradation and Religious Decay (Split from "Life on Europa") in General | |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Friday, July 20 2007 06:40
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Absolutely moral decisions are always utilitarian. Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
| Social Degradation and Religious Decay (Split from "Life on Europa") in General | |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Friday, July 20 2007 00:21
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Now if I can just get him to remove the "belief in." ;) Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
| Social Degradation and Religious Decay (Split from "Life on Europa") in General | |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Thursday, July 19 2007 23:11
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They probably wonder if they could have done something themselves to help others. There may be concern that others would also think the same thing, but I wouldn't call that feeling guilt. They are very different. You could be completely innocent and know it and still feel bad if someone thinks you're guilty. This is akin to someone thinking you're unintelligent or unattractive. It's not guilt though. I gave grandma a brain aneurism and had her drop dead immediately so you couldn't be responsible and no one would think you are. Moral outrage and envy are the same? If the chimp with the good treat was upset, then I'd be impressed. That's what a concern about fairness can do. That's what makes us more than them. Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
| Social Degradation and Religious Decay (Split from "Life on Europa") in General | |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Thursday, July 19 2007 22:20
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Christian values are based on Christian doctrine which we are not programmed to follow. Some of these values are natural, but as I said we need guidance and can get off track. When I used “hard-wiring” I didn’t mean it as if morality works like instinct. We can do whatever we want. Conscience gives us a nudge, but we can work against it and minimize or even stop the nudges. The word “callous” comes to mind. quote:It depends on the crime, but generally I would say yes I would feel guilty if no one (except God) knew. My guilt relative to people knowing would again depend on the crime and who knows. For example, if the crime was of the nature that finding out would hurt people then them knowing about it would increase guilt as it would contribute to human suffering which is wrong. This fits in perfectly with the understanding that we feel guilt simply for the fact that we’ve done something that we think is wrong. Let’s say you are stealing $100 from your grandmother’s purse. As you are removing the bill your grandmother walks in on you. You have a long discussion during which you tell her you are sorry and she promises you are forgiven and that she did the same thing to her grandmother when she was your age and they were closer after her grandma found out and she now feels closer to you. Immediately after saying this she drops dead because of a brain aneurism. The only person who will ever know you stole from your grandma is dead. You are a hardcore atheist. You have the house swept for bugs and cameras and there are none. Is there any guilt? I think there is. We want people to have a high opinion of us. When they don’t we feel bad regardless of the reason. That feeling along with guilt can bring us pretty low, but they are separate. I've done some things I'm very ashamed of myself. In one case in particular 13 years have passed. I have long since apologized and been forgiven and I’m not embarrassed if anyone finds out. Possible repercussion at this point is virtually nil. At the very most some folks I never see have a bad thought come to mind when they hear my name for doing stupid teenager stuff. I still feel bad about it though. I don’t think that feeling is uncommon. I just don’t see how this theory explains that. quote:If preservation of humanity is not right then I guess nothing is. This is the amoral, animalistic thinking that follows evolutionary reasoning that is the fundamentalist’s nightmare. I think it terrifies some hardcore atheists too. I’ve heard and read them say so. I’ve got to think about this some more… ----- Moral outrage from chimps?! I never cease to be amazed by animals. I wonder why they concluded it was moral outrage though and not simply envy, which is common for the “higher” animals. The former would imply some sense of fairness. Do animals have that? I wonder. Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
| Social Degradation and Religious Decay (Split from "Life on Europa") in General | |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Thursday, July 19 2007 11:32
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quote:So your theory is not that a guilty conscience is “directly proportional to the perceived likelihood of getting caught” anymore? Now it’s based on worry about forgiveness and what will happen if you do the same stupid thing again? I really don’t have an argument if you say biblical morals are good because people who use them succeed and pass them. I do disagree that it’s not good to figure out why a system works. I also don’t have an argument with other religions having some good to them. That was my argument from the beginning. I wasn’t really arguing that I have the right religion. ---------- Kel, I appreciate your passion, but calm down. You’re arguing against things I’m not even saying. Either Thuryl is not explaining well or he’s explaining well and the theory doesn’t make sense to me. I never said Christian values are hard-wired. I said absolute morality is. What evidence is there that human psychology evolved? Or is it just assumed that it evolved like everything evolved? If it is I guess we can’t really debate that subject. It’s unfortunate that that’s banned. It mars an otherwise intellectually free forum. Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
| Social Degradation and Religious Decay (Split from "Life on Europa") in General | |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Thursday, July 19 2007 09:43
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Let's say a person gets caught and everyone he hurt forgives him. By your theory he should no longer feel guilty, right? Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
| Social Degradation and Religious Decay (Split from "Life on Europa") in General | |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Thursday, July 19 2007 06:51
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The definition makes perfect sense to me. It's not really that complex. Your understanding of morality doesn't really match up with reality. People don't refrain from killing simply because they don't want to be killed or they fear the authorities. I think that plays a role, but love, empathy, and value for life are all involved as well. All these can be overcome to actually commit murder because we aren't driven by instinct. When a person does though, this can leave them with a scarred conscience. Your theory doesn't explain this well. quote:Stillness: " If you start talking about the past century then the difference is glaring...In the past century more blood has been shed in wars than in the 1900 years prior to that...What happened in the last century was unique...we had two world wars...Darwinistic thought, which teaches competition and advantage over others translating into survival and prosperity, heavily influenced the governments that were based off of Marx... I’m not talking about the fact that I can drink from any water fountain I please by law in this pocket of the globe. I’m talking about bad human relations in practice, the breakdown of the family unit, the mental and physical problems caused by extra/premarital sex, poverty, human suffering, etc. If the world was a better place I’d be with you... Half of the population lives on less than 2 bucks a day." These are quotes from me without me even making it halfway through the second page of this thread. There was some discussion about the western world and the U.S., but the point I was making concerned the world and the past 100 years. You may think I'm being obtuse, but it's not because I don't know what the thread is about. Interestingly I hear a lot about the increasing cost of health care, education, food, etc. I also hear much about the decline of the middle class and the increasing need for two incomes in the U.S. So I was actually sorta interested in your point. Oh well, I'll just disregard it as baseless. Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |