Social Degradation and Religious Decay (Split from "Life on Europa")
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Sunday, July 22 2007 22:21
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Don't worry and be afraid, but adjust, prepare, and use the knowledge to your advantage. For example, if parents know that the environment in school is more sexually free than when they were in school and they recognize that this is a danger to their child they might choose to home school or teach the child differently to prepare them for the challenges. If a person recognizes divorce is an increasingly strong possibility based on the numbers and they don't want it to happen to them then they need to identify the most successful way to be happily married and go with it. Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Sunday, July 22 2007 22:32
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If you think that reducing the divorce rate is so important, does that mean you're in favour of arranged marriages? They're the least likely to end in divorce. I still don't see why you used the specific example of school shootings to argue your case. If your chance of dying in a school shooting is one in a million, then it's unreasonable to spend more than one millionth of your life -- that is, a total of about 42 minutes in your entire lifetime -- taking any kind of precautionary measures against it. Anything above that and the costs clearly outweigh the benefits. [ Sunday, July 22, 2007 23:54: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Monday, July 23 2007 03:02
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I don't think arranged marriage is all bad. Some work out fine. I think it's good for the husband and wife-to-be to have some decision making though. I certainly would not be for a Christian marrying someone of another faith because their parents made a deal. Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Monday, July 23 2007 03:16
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quote:Keep digging. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Monday, July 23 2007 03:32
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? Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
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By Committee
Member # 4233
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written Monday, July 23 2007 04:30
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Hmm. Doesn't it just seem more likely that in this age of increased information, we're all much more aware of all the bad things that are happening than we were before? Because bad things have always happened. Your response though seems to be: bunker down! Withdraw from society! Stick your head in the sand! It's safe there! Ignorance is bliss! Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Monday, July 23 2007 04:53
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quote:Distilled the essential points. -------------------- Encyclopaedia • Archives • Members • RSS [Topic / Forum] • Blog • Polaris • NaNoWriMo Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. | I have a love of woodwind instruments. "That damn meddling eskimo." --WKS about Alorael Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Monday, July 23 2007 05:11
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Drew, I really don't think increase of information is what's happening. And I'm not saying let's be ignorant. I'm saying let's open our eyes - that's the exact opposite! jg, your quote is dishonest. Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
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By Committee
Member # 4233
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written Monday, July 23 2007 05:59
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Do you deny that information about everything these days is much, much more readily and immediately available than ever before, live and in color? 24-7 news is pervasive. And let's not discount the very medium through which we are communicating. So many awful things come to light now because they can. I think this is a good thing, because better transparency = more accountability and more honesty. Your response to public schools in a more sexually permissive culture was to withdraw your children for home schooling. That seems to be for the sake of sheltering your kids, or "sparing" them through ignorance. EDIT: Admittedly, you also said "or teach them differently" - what did you mean by that? [ Monday, July 23, 2007 06:01: Message edited by: Drew ] Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Monday, July 23 2007 06:12
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School shootings have existed and been well-publicized for more than forty years, dating back at least to the University of Texas at Austin shooting in 1966 (Kent State in 1970, anyone?). Some scattered incidents occurred before that, too, as you can find on Wikipedia. I strongly suspect the widespread availability of guns has something to do with the rate of school shootings, and I think that the copycat effect is also related. Part of the reason that I find it difficult to believe that morals are actually declining is that people have been saying that morals are declining at least since the time of Cicero. O mores! O tempora! EDIT: Arranged marriages get a bad reputation partly because they were arranged by standards that go against many of our values anyway, not just because they were arranged. Sending a girl off when she's twelve or thirteen to marry a thirty-year-old is probably a bad idea. But every time my cousin falls for another meth dealer, I'm certain that her parents could do better choosing men than she can. The only person in an arranged marriage I have any experience with was my father's friend who was originally from India; she was quite happy with her marriage, even though she didn't choose the man. [ Monday, July 23, 2007 06:48: Message edited by: Kelandon ] -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Monday, July 23 2007 07:12
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I have to admit that I'm a fan of benevolently arranged marriages too. One of the reasons we are so dysfunctional with our romantic relationships in this country is that we expect them to fall into our laps heaven sent, rather than having to work at them. Arranged marriages with no divorces, on the other hand, make the point that any relationship requires work, and benefits from dedication. I wouldn't want those rules enforced on me, but they do teach a valuable lesson. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Monday, July 23 2007 07:38
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Lack of patience with the process of finding a mate is another part of the problem. It took me more than a handful of years to find the right person, and I'm sure I would have regretted pulling the trigger any earlier. -------------------- WWtNSD? Synergy - "I don't get it." Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Monday, July 23 2007 07:59
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I don't deny we have acces to more information, but that doesn't account for what we see. Yes we've had school shootings, children getting crazy at parties, war, divorce, etc in the past. I acknowledge that. What I'm talking about is scale. If you can't see it I don't really know how to do a better job. Look for yourself and see or not. And somebody at a different time saying morals were decreasing has nothing to do with now. Maybe they were declining, maybe they were not. I don't know how you keep reading ignorance as a tool into my posts. Do you think home schooling makes someone ignorant? I wasn't saying parents should home school, I was saying that parents should be informed that things may be different than when they were children and prepare their child accordingly. Why shouldn't children be sheltered this way? If my teenagers are invited to a party where there will be people dancing as if they were in a strip club I'd want to know. There's no way I'd let them go. I don't think that's overly protective. They can party with children in a more wholesome environment, but not like that. Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Monday, July 23 2007 08:14
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School violence has always been a problem. Like Kel pointed out, shootings have been happening for 40 years. It is only because of the information dissemination that we hear about them now. It is only now that we can worry that something similar will happen locally. It doesn't mean there is an increased chance of it happening, it just means we worry. It is the same with the pole dancing at a local party. If your children see that, and feel uncomfortable, I'm sure they are smart enough to figure out an excuse to get the heck out of there. Children don't need to be sheltered. Part of the maturing process is to see the world through their own two eyes and figure it out for themselves. It is inevitable, and if you try to stop it you will fail. Better to work within the system than against it. But seriously, at least you don't have kids drinking and driving like around this area. Typically we get one or two dead right after graduation and then it stops until the next year. It's almost like a thinning of the herd. -------------------- WWtNSD? Synergy - "I don't get it." Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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By Committee
Member # 4233
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written Monday, July 23 2007 08:15
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quote:You are very selective with which elements of the past you choose to venerate. Yet there is more context and historical account for the claims made by Cicero as a part of the Catilinarian Conspiracy than there are for the Biblical lessons and histories you take to heart. It's a bit dichotomous. quote: quote:Italicized for emphasis. You're backtracking here. To address your other point though, I think that sheltering is a bad practice, because it doesn't change the reality. I agree with the crux of what you say though - the right thing to do is properly inform one's children so that they are armed to deal with the world. I disagree with your methods, which I think are the equivalent of telling them they have to be good or Santa Claus will bring them coal for Christmas. Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Monday, July 23 2007 09:50
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I don't know what you mean by venerating aspects of another time. You want me to venerate Cicero? I'm not "backtracking." I'm saying the same exact thing about homeschooling that I said in the first place. I know people that were homeschooled and they do quite well. They generally do better booksmartwise and if the parents made sure they had plenty of social activity they're perfectly fine all around. I'm not saying this is the best option, but it's not bad if done right. My real point was about using knowledge. Problem: There is a drug problem in your neighborhood. Solution 1-Give your child heroine so she knows what it's like and can make a decision based on experience. Solution 2-Warn her about drugs and keep her away from drug dealing and abusing people. Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
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By Committee
Member # 4233
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written Monday, July 23 2007 10:17
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Sorry, I meant backstepping. I just find it amusing that you are utterly unskeptical when it comes to historical accounts or questions concerning the Bible, yet seem to be very skeptical of other accounts of history, including those contemporaneous with Biblical Tymes. [ Monday, July 23, 2007 10:21: Message edited by: Drew ] Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Monday, July 23 2007 10:37
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"Plenty of social activity" is hard to get for homeschooled kids. At most schools you get a large amount of socialized with a much larger and more varied group of people than you're likely to get elsewhere at that age. I also disagree about the booksmartness. It's partially true, in that homeschooled currcula are obviously tailored to the individual kid, so on the plus side, obstacles like learning disabilities, disinterest, or truancy are far more likely to be overcome. And it might work well for some subjects, like math or history, that condense well into books. I'm more skeptical of the wankier humanities like literature, that basically require exposure to different viewpoints and styles, particularly among teachers. Science would be hard for most parents to do justice to, as well. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Monday, July 23 2007 10:40
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quote:I can think of some more solutions. While they may be more difficult, they also have more profound results. -------------------- WWtNSD? Synergy - "I don't get it." Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 73
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written Monday, July 23 2007 12:20
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quote:What do you mean? Doesn't everyone know that the Flying Spaghetti Monster put false evidence into place to trick us into thinking the earth is more than 5000 years old, and that we are held on the ground and kept from floating into space by His Noodly Appendages? Come on, Slarty, don't be ridiculous. -------------------- My Myspace, with some of my audial and visual art The Lyceum - The Headquarters of the Blades designing community The Louvre - The Blades of Avernum graphics database Alexandria - The Blades of Exile Scenario database BoE Webring - Self explanatory Polaris - Free porn here Odd Todd - Fun for the unemployed (and everyone else too) They Might Be Giants - Four websites for one of the greatest bands in existance -------------------- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
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written Monday, July 23 2007 12:42
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Drew, can you quote where I backpedal and where I show disbelief in nonbiblical historical accounts please. I have no clue what you're talking about. Otherwise I'll have to assume you are a product of public schools and lack good reading comprehension. I think the neighborhood, congegation, and/or family can provide plenty of social interaction. I also think a smart parent can do a good job. Not that it's easy, but I think they can outshine public education. If I had kids I'd look into it. I went to magnet schools from middle school to high school and I'm sure my wife and I could do a better job and avoid some of the nonsense that goes along with public schools. One of my best friends was homeschooled and I see no lack in him. In fact in a lot of ways he came out ahead IMO. Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Monday, July 23 2007 12:54
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George Bush did not attend public school. I'm afraid that my experience has been that home schooled kids are just as screwed up as public or privately schooled kids. It's almost like they are unique individuals and will all come out different no matter how hard you try to homogenize them. -------------------- WWtNSD? Synergy - "I don't get it." Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6700
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written Monday, July 23 2007 15:32
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Speaking as the college roommate/housemate of several different homeschooled guys, all from different backgrounds, I observed that there was really only one common trait (aside from being homeschooled) between them: at least one of their parents (in all case but one, the one that did the actual teaching) was quite paranoid as to how much danger "the world" would do to their precious children. The results varied from case to case, but it was clear in all cases but one that if said parent knew how their son behaved when alone with the guys, the first thought would be where the shelter failed (incidentally, that one was the one where the non-paranoid parent was the teacher. Unlike the others, he turned out to be quite well-adjusted, even when in private, irate, and having a lousy evening in his favorite FPS.). Conclusion: society will get to a child no matter how much sheltering any parent will try to implement. In fact, from my observations, it may increase the odds of the child to welcome "the world" with open arms once he inevitably begins to question his parents' values. The point is not social interraction. I get plenty of social interaction and all that I do to interract with other people right now is post on forums and answer phones. And talk to my girlfriend through the wee hours of the morning. The point is a diverse series of conflicting social interractions where the other value systems will range from sympathetic to one's own to downright antagonisic. Congregations, families, and many neighborhoods tend to be one-minded and rather indoctrinating. I'll be sending my kids to a public school. For everything. And I'll be right there watching, asking pointed questions, and all-round trying to make them think. Once you know why you do what you do, you become much better at it. EDIT: I missed cutting out the first part of a rant I decided not to go on. Ick... it's becoming a trend. -------------------- The Silent Assassin attended the School of Halibut. He invited a good deal of the school to dinner once. [ Monday, July 23, 2007 15:36: Message edited by: Lenar ] -------------------- -Lenar Labs What's Your Destiny? Ushmushmeifa: Lenar's power is almighty and ineffable. All hail lord Noric, god of... well, something important, I'm sure. Posts: 735 | Registered: Monday, January 16 2006 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 3428
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written Monday, July 23 2007 21:02
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The point made earlier about the lack of a hell in the old testament and the jewish religious theory was valid. They didn't have a "hell" persay, they only had sheol; "the outcasting" when the word "gehena" [a valley for burning trash outside of jeruselem] was used by jesus in the new testament it wasn't to state that unrepentant sinners and "non-beleivers" would be burnt, it meant to say there were going to be "thrown away." The original concept of sheol is the isolatory concept of "away from god", much like the mormonistic concept of "outer darknesS" or the catholic concept of purgator. [except, you're completely and utterly alone, you can't even interact or sense the rest of the world, or the others that have been discarded.] As for the increasing levels of violence... I think it has to do with the natural human tendancies to violence, and disdain for other human lives; coupled with the increasing ease with which we can kill one another. Its so much easier to hold a rifle several hundered feet away and pick someone off; than it is to hack them to bits with a machette, I'm sure some of you have heard about the psychology and mechanics of pre-desensitization "hesitation cuts." -------------------- HIHI!!!! *hugs indescriminantly* take that, FEEL THE LOVE!!!! Posts: 47 | Registered: Wednesday, September 3 2003 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Monday, July 23 2007 21:17
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quote:One of these things is not like the others, and your mischaracterisation of Catholic theology makes me wonder how much you really know about any other theology. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |