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Life on Europa in General
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Member # 7723
Profile #18
You listed Adaptation twice. I'm assuming reproduction should go there. And I wonder if adaptation and responsiveness are redundant, unless adaptation is strictly over periods of generations. In which case I could envisage a being that does not adapt, reproduce, grow, or metabolize. I reckon I'd need to see homeostasis and organization. I'm not saying that a thing with those three would necessarily be alive, but that would be enough.

Let's say the whole human race got a disease that stopped reproduction. That would knock out adaptation. We'd still be living. I could imagine a being that doesn't grow or metabolize as well. It could have some self-sustaining energy source.

Yes there is a link between faith and morals. The decline of both is not coincidence.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Life on Europa in General
Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
Profile #12
quote:
Originally written by Frozen Feet:

I consider it highly likely that Europa contains life.
Why?
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Life on Europa in General
Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
Profile #11
As a Christian I'm certainly not counting faith out. But, religion is not as important to people as it was 200 years ago, especially in western society. And it's still declining. I think such a discovery would speed that trend. I think we'd see a more rapid decline in morals and a general feeling of uneasiness about what else lies beyond our skies.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Life on Europa in General
Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
Profile #7
Self-replicating, metabolizing for energy, responsive to stimuli. If it doesn't do these I don't see how it could really be considered life.

EDIT: On second thought I could see life just being responsive to stimuli and not growing, metabolizing, or replicating.

[ Monday, July 09, 2007 21:49: Message edited by: Stillness ]
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Life on Europa in General
Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
Profile #3
I agree with what you said Alo, with this addition: I think that religion would be greatly affected. Maybe in a similar way that I think the teachings of general evolution has affected it. I think it would be the death blow to the faith of a lot of people.

The desire to explore is human nature. These folks wanted to find life, though. That is interesting to me. Would you like to see life elsewhere? Why? What would that life do for you that an undiscovered jungle or sea animal would not?
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Life on Europa in General
Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
Profile #0
How would you be affected if it were discovered? How do you think it would affect society as a whole?

I just saw "Aliens of the Deep." If you haven't, it deals with deep sea life and the ecosystems around hydrothermal vents. There was much allusion to the teams that were exploring these ecosystems being precursors to teams exploring other planets/satellites in our solar system. There was also a great hope by these scientists that the life that is mainly driven by these vents and not the sun could mean that life is possible beneath the ice on Europa or some other planet that is not necessarily near a star. (One can only guess why they have this hope). They then made the statement that 'this discovery would affect society greatly.' Would it? (I'm mainly speaking of life more on parr with non-human life on our planet as opposed to something like us).
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Video Game Addiction in General
Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
Profile #146
I understand your point now, Drew. I agree that we are all susceptible to suggestion. I agree that we are all affected by our peers. I still don't see much of a connection between psycological addiction and advertising other than the brain, which doesn't really say much. But I don't think we disagree that addiction can be psycological.

Coincidentally, there's a show on Fresh Air (the NPR program) tomorrow dealing with the brain's involvement with addiction, for anyone interested enough to listen. If you miss it like I probably will they usually have the shows available for download a few hours after broadcast.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Video Game Addiction in General
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Member # 7723
Profile #139
It's a matter of degree. It seems the argument is that "we all" can be influenced into addiction or influenced into thinking that drinking a particular beverage makes us cool. If I see an effective coke advertisement every other day it may stay on my mind and I may be more prone to buy Coke. I think that's the extent of it with most people. With some, maybe younger consumers, it may go a bit farther.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Video Game Addiction in General
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Member # 7723
Profile #135
Caffeine alters the brain regardless of how you feel about coke. You could give it to someone that's never heard of Coke and it would have the same effect.

And does anyone really feel cool when they drink a pop? I would definitely agree that they are easily influenced if they do. I don't think that's true for everyone or even most people. Maybe I'm slow, but I see no link whatsoever between advertising and addiction.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Video Game Addiction in General
Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
Profile #131
I see you point on the rehab policy. This person was selling drugs and they were found in his locker. He then took advantage of the policy by saying he was an addict.

That's what I mean about accountability. In the case you gave it doesn't sound like the person brought the problems on themselves. That was what I said should not be excused by the title "addict" or "insane." Just because someone's ill doesn't mean they have to bring drugs to work, or steal from their parents, or lie. If someone kills my loved one and they say, "oh he was crazy," That doesn't make it ok. I'm all for forgiveness and assistance, but I'm also for responsibility. I'm just guessing that may be part of why some don't like the broad usage of "addict," because some may use it to deflect responsibility for their actions.

And, I'm going to have to side with the medical establishment on the mental stuff. If you ever talk to addicts they will tell you about it. I have. If it wasn't mental then there would be no such thing as relapse. Once a person had conquered physical withdrawel he'd never go back. Kel's observation on marijuana is also accurate. I can testify from firsthand experience that there is a physical pull to it, but not enough to cause addiction. Yet my best friend is an addict. I partook quite regularly with him, yet was not. It's all in the mind.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Video Game Addiction in General
Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
Profile #127
That's fair. Far be it from me to push medical views on what does and does not constitute addiction. The correlation between substance abuse and an "unhealthy attachment" to sex or video games is the behavior of the person. They are similar. That's the usefulness of title's such as "addict." We know what kind of things an addict does and how dangerous addiction can be.

A person who is mentally ill through no fault of their own should not be blamed or mistreated. It's different when someone brings it on themselves. Why shouldn't they be blamed for what they've done? That doesn't mean they shouldn't get help. I don't see why they should be excused though.

It's interesting that at some companies a person who works very poorly and irresponsibly can be fired. If the cause is drugs they'll retain him and help him though. I know someone that took advantage of a policy like that. I couldn't believe it.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Video Game Addiction in General
Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
Profile #125
quote:
Originally written by Dikiyoba:

It's foolish to be skeptical about the safety of prescription or over-the-counter drugs and not be skeptical of natural things like herbal supplements or miraculous health foods as well.
Agreed.

I don't have a psychiatrist, never have, and doubt I ever will. Don't call it addiction. Call it compulsion, unbalance, or whatever you please. I can't imagine a psychiatrist not recognizing that some people's attachment to games is very unhealthy. Do you all think a person can be addicted to pornography? If yes, then why can't a person be addicted to video games? If no, why not?
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Video Game Addiction in General
Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
Profile #119
100% of everything comes from nature. the question is what happens between nature and final product.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Most in depth game. in General
Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
Profile #12
I only like the Geneforge series and I like all of them including 3. I don't get what everyone always complains about. The funny thing is, it might be my favorite. That may be because it was my first. It was definitely good enough to make me want to go back and play 2 and 1. To go against the grain even more, I think I liked 4 the least. All of them rate high for me though.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Video Game Addiction in General
Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
Profile #114
I don't know what 'synthesize the rain forest' means, but I know there are a lot of more natural, less damaging alternatives to cutting parts of your body off or irradiation. There are also preventative things that can be done, like having a healthy diet.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Video Game Addiction in General
Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
Profile #112
I prefer sea serpent venom, thank you.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Video Game Addiction in General
Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
Profile #110
Continue if you don't understand where I'm coming from. I'll play.

That's a good question. By "natural" I'm referring to something that does not use man-made chemicals (i.e. exercise, change in diet, plants, etc).
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Video Game Addiction in General
Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
Profile #106
quote:
Originally written by Garrison:

I have a few accomplished doctors in my family, and I can proudly say that they are dedicated to their work and try their best to help their patients...She does not receive direct compensation for prescribing a certain company's drugs.
I have a cousin that I'm close with that is a doctor. A few weeks ago she spent a lot of time helping my wife and I out with a scare that we had. Her advice and information was invaluable. If anyone thinks I'm saying doctors are useless they are reading me wrong. I couldn't help but notice your words "direct compensation" though. I won't ask you about your mom, but I wonder am I the only one here who is aware that there is a relationship between doctors and drug companies that is the subject of some ethical debate.

Drug Companies Mine Doctors Prescriptions

Drug companies spend 13 billion per year buying lunches, paying travel expenses, hiring for lectures, paying for continued education

quote:
most clinical doctors prescribe drugs as the first option just because it is the quickest and simplest solution. The appointments finish more quickly, and the patient leaves with a an extremely easy to follow remedy.
Quick, simple, and easy don't mean best. And I think it's debatable whether the doctors solution is always the easiest. I reckon that depends on how you define easy and simple. If natural methods can cure and cost less but the doctor gives you a prescription that you'll need for life and that will have side effects because he wants to quickly move you out of his office and get to the next patient and the drug company pays him $2500 per visit to sit in with patients, that works well for him, but not for the me.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Video Game Addiction in General
Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
Profile #104
quote:
Originally written by Dintiradan:

is trusting a doctor's advice under several different scenarios the best thing for your health? (And just because the situations don't match the experience you've talked about doesn't stop them from being "real-world questions".
Diki's doctor is omniscient and ethical and his drugs flawless and free. I'll obey that doctor without hesitation.

In the real world the answer to your question depends on the doctor, the scenario, and the individuals preferences. I've given you two real world scenarios - not hypothetical ones. In one instance I took the drug the doctor recommended (and let me add here that my experiences with dentists has been overall good, not like with other doctors). In the other instance the doctor helped me by diagnosing me, but I disagreed with his solution to my problem and found my own which I feel is better. Where is the problem with that? Which solution to the problem would you prefer in my situation, mine or the doctor's?
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Video Game Addiction in General
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Member # 7723
Profile #100
Diki, I want the best thing for my health. Whether or not the doctor is being bribed does not effect that. These are not real world questions you're asking. That's why I stressed early on that I was talking about a real drug when we went off on this tangent.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Video Game Addiction in General
Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
Profile #94
quote:
Originally written by Dikiyoba:

You seem willing to put yourself on the spot, so let's say you suffer from a minor but slightly painful physical ailment. Your doctor says it could be cured forever in three months by a minor adjustment in lifestyle or by taking a certain drug for one month. This drug has no side effects, it won't alter the way your body works beyond curing your ailment, and you'll never have to take it again after a month. It doesn't cost you anything and the doctor's not getting rewarded for selling it. What do you choose, and why?

Dikiyoba.

The drug because its quicker and easier. And I don't care about doctors getting rewarded. They should get rewarded from a company for pushing its product. What I care about is exchanging my health for their reward. I'm not saying all doctors do that, but my health may not be their only focus. I just want to make sure they don't get a little confused.

And I don't belittle doctors, Kel. They serve a great role in our society. I use them myself, as I mentioned and have been benefitted from them. I would never disobey them for the sake of disobeying. I would disobey when I think they're wrong or their advice is not the best.

Edit: On second thought I don't think doctors should be rewarded by drug companies. I don't know why I said that. That's one of the very reasons I am cautious with their advice.

[ Thursday, July 05, 2007 07:55: Message edited by: Stillness ]
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Video Game Addiction in General
Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
Profile #89
Elaborate on how I'm going too far. What good is a belief if you don't live it? I think my view is balanced. I'm not totally against drugs. I just won't use them when there is a better, non-drug option which I think there oftentimes (not always) is. That outlook has served me well. That's really all I'm saying.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Video Game Addiction in General
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Member # 7723
Profile #87
quote:
Originally written by Yama:

I disagree with most of what Stillness has posted, and there are times he's been quite unreasonable. But at least he doesn't make personal attacks.
Thank you?
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Video Game Addiction in General
Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
Profile #84
I'm not superior to anyone. You're misreading me. I'm constantly misunderstood when I post on these boards. I have no clue why. I don't really know how to write any differently than I do. I thought I was being nice. Oh well...
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Video Game Addiction in General
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Member # 7723
Profile #80
Kel, you seem to have some axe to grind with me. I'm not as bad or as stupid as you make me out to be. Let it go, man.

I did read the label. That's why I know I didn't want to take it. The doctor told me practically nothing about the drug other than, "try this, it should work." He mentioned nothing about lifestyle changes. The main culprit was some sugary cereal I was eating everyday. He should have asked me about my diet and made some suggestions. He did not. He gave me drugs. I know they would have changed my digestive chemistry and most likely caused other problems while not curing the one I had.

Most people feel like Alo. "If your doctor recommends a prescription, though, I'd say you should at least strongly consider taking it...Most long-term drugs are given for very serious conditions, though, and the small risk of toxicity is going to be more than balanced by the increase in quality of life and health." I do not. I listen to doctors, but very suspiciously. I have had too many bad experiences and heard them from others to do anything else.

People that do stuff because the doctor thinks it's best can plan on being on a host of drugs in their golden years, if not before. Some of the drugs will probably be for problems caused by other drugs. I am doing everything in my power not to live like that. Up until now that's working for me. I don't force my opinions and preferences on others though. I'm sharing how I like to live. But like I said, to each his own.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00

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