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Hypothetical thoughts in General
Najosz Thjsza Kjras
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
 written Monday, February 26 2007 11:46 Profile #15
quote:
Originally written by Nemesis.:

I would be a pirate or a bounty hunter. That would rock.

Too bad pirates are highly frowned upon (and inevitably caught) and bounty hunters wouldn't have much work in the U.S.
They do have bounty hunters in the US - they're mostly used to pursue difficult-to-pursue-otherwise warrants. It's not particularly steady work, but it's a living.

They also have pirates, although less in the US than in major commercial straits through which pass many large, unwieldy ships (Malacca, Hormuz, etc). You can't exactly be blamed for not knowing that, because just about nobody actually does. (One of the tenets of Flying Spaghetti Monsterism is the bit about pirates preventing global warming, which is a well-meaning but false bit about the nature of causation versus correlation - in reality the pirate population has increased dramatically in the last half century, when global warming has been worst)

Pirates typically attack large, clumsy ships - tankers, freighters, and the like - with small speedboats, armed with AK-47s and RPGs and that sort of thing. The weapons are mostly for deterrence, and instead of seizing the cargo (which is never practical - they don't have a tanker or freighter of their own, after all) they go for the payroll safe, which contains nice, light, portable, non-traceable money.

Because the cost of installing a large security detail would be more than the cost of replacing the payroll, few countermeasures are typically taken against pirates. They're a seaman's nightmare, but don't matter much to the people running the ships.

quote:
Originally written by Jewels:

How much gold and skill points left? Oh yeah, LOTS! and LOTS! Um... let's see. Martial arts... Auto mechanics... Space exploration...
Auto mechanics is actually fairly easy to pick up if you've got time, a beat-up old car, and an expert around. (And the Internet will usually suffice for an expert.) There's some auxillary equipment which helps a lot, but it's not incredibly expensive.

Auto mechanics aren't too hard to pick up either, but I'm not sure if your husband would approve of that. :P

quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

As I've indicated once or twice before, I'd probably buy an island in the Mediterranean, found a small university/tourist attraction, and revive Latin and Attic Greek.

We're just now reaching the generational point in Classics where it is no longer inconceivable to revive Latin as a spoken language and teach it as one would a living language. Classical pronunciation (of Latin, at least) was solved several decades ago, and we could without too much difficulty develop truly authentic pronunciation and conversational vocabulary and syntax. At that point, it's just a matter of speaking it enough to be fluent.

If the Israelis could do it with Hebrew, we can do it with Latin and Attic Greek.
Fiddling while Rome burns, as per usual. :P

'Reviving' classical Latin is a little silly, considering as how it lives on in the Romance languages and the Latin of the church. It'd be as silly as 'reviving' Old English - it became Middle English for a reason.

[ Monday, February 26, 2007 11:52: Message edited by: Protocols of the Elders of Zion ]
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
Bots? in General
Najosz Thjsza Kjras
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
 written Monday, February 26 2007 11:39 Profile #30
quote:
Originally written by radix malorum est cupiditas:

quote:
Originally written by Endemos:

Nobody likes Tully
Speak for yourself.
Well, of course you like Tully. You'd like Hitler if it weren't for a single policy of his. :P
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
The Ancient Greeks in General
Najosz Thjsza Kjras
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
 written Monday, February 26 2007 11:17 Profile #91
quote:
Originally written by saunders:

We can't altogether dismiss Lamarck.
Some highly significant accquired characteristics such as health, wealth and education are highly heritable. Just because they are not passed on through the genes does not mean they are not heritable.
I've always thought Lamarck got a bad rap. He was a brilliant scientist and just because he worked before Mendel did (let alone when Mendel's work gained widespread attention) he got the idea of heredity slightly wrong.

Parts of Lamarck are indeed correct - he begat the general principle that traits are inherited over time, and his evolutionary mechanism was perhaps more complete than the one Darwin used in Origin. There's nothing saying that, if he had been a contemporary of Darwin's, he wouldn't have dropped the incorrect bits about acquired traits passing on.

The only reason the silly fallacy of inherited acquired traits survives as 'Lamarckian evolution' is because it was a prominently incorrect feature of his theories. It was good science when it was new, it's just that it's been supplanted by better science. As a scientist, Lamarck would be happy with that.

It's non-scientists, or at least very bad scientists, who desperately want to believe in the bits of Lamarck time has discredited. If it didn't also carry a connotation of political cronyism, 'Lysenkoism' might almost be fairer.

Lamarck wrote in a time where nobody knew anything about evolution; he was a scientist. Lysenko write in a time where everybody knew quite a bit about evolution; he was a fraud. Even though core parts of their theories are about identical, Lamarck and Lysenko enjoy a dramatically different reputation, mostly by force of Lamarck working in the 18th century and Lysenko working in the interbellum.

Yesterday's science is today's pseudoscience.
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
About Ed... in General
Najosz Thjsza Kjras
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
 written Saturday, February 24 2007 17:57 Profile #24
quote:
Originally written by Sarasaphilia:

I did. I used to skip reading posts labeled with -X-.
Dude, when you get punked on by the guy who does the SW equivalent of User Friendly you have a serious problem.
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
Why You Suck: Ancient Greek Edition in General
Najosz Thjsza Kjras
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
 written Saturday, February 24 2007 15:06 Profile #7
quote:
Originally written by Alex:

In CE 2007, in the cultures deemed to be the pinnacle of civilization, women are still supposed to dress and act modestly, so that people don't think they are begging to be groped or raped. Regardless of clothing, men are mindless sex machines who enjoy being groped by any woman, of course.

In the Land of the Free, Prison Rape is very common and merely a laughing matter. On the other hand, consenting adults need to ask the Supreme Court for permission to copulate. Being a "pimp" is something to be proud of.
Thoroughly and unreservedly concur, but am still not used to the year being 2007.
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
Why You Suck: Ancient Greek Edition in General
Najosz Thjsza Kjras
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
 written Saturday, February 24 2007 01:18 Profile #0
Aristotle, who was married three times, professed for his entire life that women had fewer teeth than men.

The concept of failing to ruthlessly sodomize one's customary boy-ward at every opportunity was so revolutionary to the ancient Greeks that when it was formulated by Plato that they named it after him.

Slavery was their deal. So was colonialism.

Discuss.

[ Saturday, February 24, 2007 01:19: Message edited by: Protocols of the Elders of Zion ]
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
About Ed... in General
Najosz Thjsza Kjras
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
 written Saturday, February 24 2007 01:09 Profile #19
There's something genuinely suspicious about one newbie inquiring after another's deeds.

Honestly, I'd say the difference in IP location isn't enough to take this out of the 'suspicious' category.

Although to be fair, Ed was a much different kind of annoying. It could be a ploy. You never know.
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
Round Table on Morality, Theology, and Ethics in General
Najosz Thjsza Kjras
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
 written Wednesday, February 21 2007 22:18 Profile #36
Actually, the independence of Israel was largely a consequence of good-old fashioned rebellion against the British Empire.

Rebellion spearheaded by the ancestors of Likud, who actively attempted to ally themselves with Hitler. (The ancestors, I mean. Likud has taken a courageous stance against Hitler since its founding in 1973.)

History is hilarious, but only when you have hindsight and are willing to use it.

[ Wednesday, February 21, 2007 22:20: Message edited by: Protocols of the Elders of Zion ]
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
It's a Wonderful Life in General
Najosz Thjsza Kjras
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
 written Wednesday, February 21 2007 22:09 Profile #12
quote:
Originally written by moonear:

Yeah, seems to suggest economic pollution equals better standard of living. Maybe Gore has it all wrong.
Correlation is not causation.

For the record, the population of Love Spring would tend to disagree. :P
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
Why You Suck in General
Najosz Thjsza Kjras
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
 written Wednesday, February 21 2007 12:15 Profile #46
quote:
Originally written by moonear:

quote:
his is how I talk, Kel. You and I both know that. Drop the Scarlett O'Hara routine, wouldja? You've already scored all the points you're going to on me by getting the vapors.
Doesn't validate it any more than if I routinely cursed and then included such talk in my posting here.

If the shoe fits...
I wouldn't mind that. I'm really kind of tired of the H.R. Puffenstuff crap. Nobody ever died from invective. :P
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
The Shocking Truth in General
Najosz Thjsza Kjras
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
 written Wednesday, February 21 2007 11:15 Profile #3
Now, the real question is: do Spiderweb Software games cure cancer in Canada?
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
I am 22 today in General
Najosz Thjsza Kjras
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
 written Wednesday, February 21 2007 11:10 Profile #36
If I was here when Ash posted this topic, I would have :nanaparty:'d him then. :(
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
Why You Suck in General
Najosz Thjsza Kjras
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
 written Wednesday, February 21 2007 10:59 Profile #39
quote:
Originally written by Zeviz:

What would happen if I came to Desperance and posted a thread "Why You Suck" which said "This place is just a cesspit of obscene images and old in-jokes"?
Well, given that you'd have registered on Desp (or first posted, anyway) yesterday, it'd be a little suspect.

You know the situations are different, Zeviz. Don't be silly and make false analogies.

Oh, and just in case you're wondering? The most active topic on Desp is a roundtable on morality, theology, and ethics. By contrast, the most active topics on Spiderweb are this and Episode 3 and the most active topics on Polaris are about old members, those welcoming them back, and those wishing them a happy birthday.

Tu quoque only even vaguely works when tu is quoque, Zeviz. :P

quote:
You've dealt out more insults in your first post alone than you've received in this entire thread, so your "oh, the poor, victimized me" attitude is completely unwarranted.
Point me to an insult in the first post. Any single one.

Now, Zeviz, 'Why you suck' is a way of being provocative, but I'm trying to do two things: (a) trigger an objective look at something serious and (b) motivate some kind of change here with (a).

If you could get over your deep-rooted desire to take frivolous pot-shots at me for a minute, it's something that you could, if not get behind, at least appreciate.

quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

quote:
Originally written by Protocols of the Elders of Zion:

the very community that feels compelled to whip it out to it.
quote:
your problem seems to be that you have abandoned any serious discussion and stucked to the regions of SW where boys get fondled.
quote:
if your only interest were boys (which I could say is at least true of, I don't know, Synergy)
quote:
better people than you
quote:
you're ignorant
quote:
you're using it as an excuse.
quote:
spoiled, prissy child.
quote:
pretty presumptive for you and especially the other dude
quote:
make innuendo concerning you and the Cub Scouts
quote:
blogging and filking
quote:
maunder
quote:
I'm not trying to be insulting here
This is how I talk, Kel. You and I both know that. Drop the Scarlett O'Hara routine, wouldja? You've already scored all the points you're going to on me by getting the vapors. :P

[ Wednesday, February 21, 2007 11:08: Message edited by: Protocols of the Elders of Zion ]
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
I am 22 today in General
Najosz Thjsza Kjras
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
 written Wednesday, February 21 2007 02:39 Profile #33
quote:
Originally written by Projec:
[ion]
Happy birthday, Ash. As an act of celebration, have Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

:fdr:
I don't think he wants any.

As per usual, the farther away from the still-recent but ever-receding end of puberty, the closer you are to death; in biological terms you enjoy less capacity for strength, speed, and intelligence than you did last year, and the grip of the inescapable hand of Death tightens more and more. While you may look forward to future years as providing the pale consolation that you no longer have anything to fear from diseases that manifest primarily in youths, there is no cause for cheer - for they are outnumbered by the debilitating, humiliating, and fatal conditions, numbering legion, that lurk in every genetic nook in cranny of the man of advancing age.

And thanks to your stultifying acculturation in one of the more stuffily puritan religions and nations on Earth, you won't even be able to enjoy the pleasures of the flesh for the brief time they remain available and enjoyable. Someday, if you complete the correct rites of passage, you may just be able to suffer a pale imitation of the dizzying hedonism that marks everyday life for just about everyone of your age but you.

Just think: Jesus only lived half again as long as you until they nailed him to wooden planks by his limbs and he died one of the most excruciating and humiliating deaths known to history. Statistically speaking, you have a little more than twice that long coming, but to be fair, we live in a new and exciting time for torturers and executioners.

Happy birthday!

:nanaparty:

[ Wednesday, February 21, 2007 02:41: Message edited by: Protocols of the Elders of Zion ]
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
Exile 3: Ruined World - 7.50 (9.2/5.5) in General
Najosz Thjsza Kjras
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
 written Wednesday, February 21 2007 02:29 Profile #60
2.0

:rudy:
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
Oldbiehood in General
Najosz Thjsza Kjras
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
 written Wednesday, February 21 2007 02:19 Profile #88
If you remember what my avatar was when we had avatars here, you count - to me, anyhow.

But chances are if you don't, it doesn't much matter to you what I have to say about the subject.

Mmm, catch-22.

[ Wednesday, February 21, 2007 02:21: Message edited by: Protocols of the Elders of Zion ]
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
Why You Suck in General
Najosz Thjsza Kjras
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
 written Tuesday, February 20 2007 23:21 Profile #33
quote:
Originally written by The Lurker:

[QUOTE]The snake's biting its own tail and all that.
Exactly right.

That Ouroboros element has always been there, but of late it just seems to be all anyone is concerned with. It is probably just the ramblings of an old man - which is why I am trying to make a semi-formal study of this. I am not in the business of going beyond the hypothetical unless I've got me some evidence.
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
Why You Suck in General
Najosz Thjsza Kjras
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
 written Tuesday, February 20 2007 23:01 Profile #29
quote:
Originally written by The Lurker:

quote:
Originally written by Protocols of the Elders of Zion:



Critical differences are at work here, by the way, between what you cite as old and what you cite as new. 'Diki's story' is worthless as a referent for humor (no offense, Diki) because it uses SW as a referent to begin with. It's all recursive and idiotic to hinge jokes on references to it.
You are aware that there are a lot of people who would disagree with you, right? You are also aware that this story was not written for you, right?
Presumably you're also aware that not everyone would find Desp jokes funny, and I certainly hope that you understand that there's absolutely no reason why Dikiyoba should go out of her way to please you. Not everyone has the same sense of humor.

And if you seriously think Dikiyoba's story is to become the only source of humor for SW, you're just paranoid.
You have me entirely wrong. The problem with Diki's story is not that I don't find it funny. (I don't, but that's between me and her.) Even if I did find it funny, I wouldn't consider using it as a referent acceptable - because it uses as a referent the very community that feels compelled to whip it out to it.

quote:
Originally written by Ephesos:

[b]
quote:
Originally written by Alec:

'Anyone who offers an opinion gets sniped pretty damn quickly' is an unusually non-self-righteous way of putting how you're treating me.
Goddamn it Alec, you're the one who started the self-righteousness here. You're the one with the stones to start a topic telling everyone here they suck, and why they suck, and why nobody can ever hope to equal the excellence that you have so patiently graced us with.
[/b]
'Self-righteous'? I'm hurt - that's me being gracious.

My point is this: your problem seems to be that you have abandoned any serious discussion and stucked to the regions of SW where boys get fondled. Now, if your only interest were boys (which I could say is at least true of, I don't know, Synergy), that'd be understandable.

But the fact of the matter is, better people than you get beaten down harder than you. (I'm not the only one whose 'sniping' has ended in administrative action. For instance, there's Ashby.) Either you're ignorant of that, in which case I intend to rectify that because ignorance sucks, or you're using it as an excuse.

I guess it's unfair to blame you for not knowing it, but things used to be a hell of a lot more kinetic. Saying the big, slow softballs being thrown around in the modern SW discussion topics are just too much for you puts me (and, surely, anyone who REMEMBERS when the softballs weren't) in the mind of a spoiled, prissy child.

I'm not trying to be insulting here, and I think it's pretty presumptive for you and especially the other dude to take this as some kind of personal affront on your dignity; I don't even know you well enough to stuff you into a pigeonhole, which is why I find it sufficient to make innuendo concerning you and the Cub Scouts. But you've wandered into a forum, not a tiny clustered community, but something continuously attracting new members where some semblance of personal discipline is required.

There's Polaris for those of you who love nothing more than blogging and filking and wishing one another happy birthdays. The rest of us are not here to hear you maunder on about your friends or your e-celebrity.

...

Part of why I make a periodic habit of quitting and rejoining, except when I left for the first time, being a youth and in a huff - the biggest part of it is that there's an air of celebrity. I've never much cared for the discourse of celebrity, and it strikes a resentful chord somewhere deep down when there's a topic where people discuss me that I've never even read. I don't want to be a celebrity. I don't want people to talk about me. I want people to talk about what I have to say.

Every once in a while, I start up a new account and bask in anonymity. There's no telling how many there are now, but it's certainly a lot.

Why do I bother? It's all pointless and ephemeral anyway.

Because so is everything else, in the long run, and in a way this is practice for the way everything else is. If the only thing you can offer to the world is in-jokes, who are you, really? I treat it all as practice, which is why I am where I am and why you are where you are, and why we're all bothering sending off pointless words to people we will never meet.

While I type all of this, there are thousands of people dying for whatever reason. Having a pastime - it doesn't rate 'hobby', quite - which has no purpose at all just seems immoral, in the face of all that.

Of course, there's also that I find talking about how evol fluffy turtles are to be grating, and have for years. But I've always been odd that way.

IMAGE(http://www.dancestore.com/images/wingtip-new-bw-lg.jpg)

[ Tuesday, February 20, 2007 23:18: Message edited by: Protocols of the Elders of Zion ]
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
Why You Suck in General
Najosz Thjsza Kjras
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
 written Tuesday, February 20 2007 22:04 Profile #23
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

[quote]
As for meta-posting, well, the community has always talked about itself. The community has always had in-jokes (e.g. the trifecta of terror that I think consisted of Khoth, Saunders, and Riibu and had something to do with a large number of slimy things).
Riibu is too young. You're thinking of another, slightly less manly Finn: Arctic.

Also, the 'talking about itself' was entirely different. SW is fixated on itself now - I honestly have not encountered a topic that I can remember that did not contain long derailments into discussions about Alorael or you or, sometimes, me. This is meta-posting AT ITS BEST, by the way - the E!-esque stuff is better than the post-modern crap.

quote:

You're just getting old, Alec. All these newbies of what I've called the fourth generation aren't very much like you. They don't make frequent reference to AbT (but rather Diki's story).
To be fair: no one ever made reference to AbT. No one on SW has heard of AbT; in fact, AbT never existed. (That is what Desp is for, and it is far more close-knit and as such has an excuse.)

The equivalent would be, I don't know, News At 11, but it stuck to itself.
quote:
They don't make reference to the Arena (but rather BoA). In short, their in-jokes aren't your in-jokes, so you feel that much more like an outsider, because that's what in-jokes do: they include some and exclude others.
I get the in-jokes, they're just annoying because they're the only jokes anyone cares to make any more. There isn't a sense of blissful absurdity any more; all absurdity is carefully demarcated and vetted with the canon.

The problem with in-jokes, Kel, is not that they create and isolate outsiders. The problem is that they're tedious and repetitive and after a while it's necessary to create new ones.

Critical differences are at work here, by the way, between what you cite as old and what you cite as new. 'Diki's story' is worthless as a referent for humor (no offense, Diki) because it uses SW as a referent to begin with. It's all recursive and idiotic to hinge jokes on references to it. I suppose the next step would be some kind of asinine comic that makes nothing but references to 'Diki's story' and then people limit their humorous purview to that.

quote:

Well, my general feeling is that this is what the community is now. Take it or leave it.

EDIT: Khoth, Saunders, and Arctic. I knew I had one of those people wrong. Well, two Brits and a Finn, anyway.
It can be changed, Kel. After all: it wasn't born this way, now was it?

I suppose there's only one way to find out. When I next have the time (which won't be for a little bit, because I have a lot of work) I'm going to bang out an analysis myself. Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong. I think I'm right, which is why I hypothesized what I did: the level of meta-reference has at least doubled in the last three years.

Care to propose a sampling design and definitions? I don't want to be accused of cherry-picking here.

quote:
Originally written by Ephesos:

quote:
Originally written by Cylon:
I reject your assignment and say who gives a $^!#.
Seconded. Honestly, every serious discussion that comes up devolves into a flame-fest so quickly that it almost isn't worth it to try anymore. Usually anyone who offers an opinion gets sniped (note: not meant to be an Alo reference, so don't try to pin that one on me) pretty damn quickly, and after a while that gets old.

That, and as others have said, there are a ton of newbs around, which makes it hard to get much of anything done.
'Anyone who offers an opinion gets sniped pretty damn quickly' is an unusually non-self-righteous way of putting how you're treating me.

Of course, the difference between you - by which I mean both you, my dear brittle ephebophile, and your latest bemused catamite - and me is that I have had enough sniping that I do not particularly care.

You're one to talk about being 'sniped'. I've been banned. Where are your scars, little man?

[ Tuesday, February 20, 2007 22:08: Message edited by: Protocols of the Elders of Zion ]
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
Why You Suck in General
Najosz Thjsza Kjras
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
 written Tuesday, February 20 2007 01:36 Profile #0
Hypothesis: SW General sucks because of meta-posting. (THE PUNCHLINE: SPIDERWEB SOFTWARE stuff.)

Topic derailments have always been the norm, but topic derailments for meta-posting are fairly new, and associated with a precipitous decline in what the average post actually has to say. You'd have to study for days to get acquainted with the collected lore of the new community, which exists (the lore, that is) for no apparent purpose but existing.

I don't have the time, and neither does anyone worth listening to.

The question: am I right or am I wrong? Has SW's meta-posting problem always been there? I am open to the possibility it has; that is why I pose this as a hypothesis.

Your assignment, gentle reader, is twofold. First, come up with an acceptable definition of meta-posting. Second, observe a section of the boards, applying that definition and measuring the level of meta-posts over time.

Once you have done so, determine thus whether SW is heavier or lighter in posts about the SW community than it was some time ago. (A year? Six months? The second Pied Piper? Your call.)

Call this an observational study - a research project - whatever. But most of all, call it a challenge.

Read up on what the community once was and, I pose, you will discover it was never as self-obsessed as it is now. (In fact, at present it's self-obsessed to the point of solipsism, which is always grating.)

A general guideline: by 'meta-posting' I generally mean posts that are entirely, mostly, or primarily about the community itself, or about the post itself, or in general posts that exist to comment on their own context.

I would suggest that unfair game include Aran's posting stats topics, landmark post topics, birthdays, and the lot (although if you want to do a topic headcount, that would be fine too - and in that case, those topics would count as meta-posts), because they are inherently meta and they have existed as long as I have. Nothing objectionable about them - it's just that they've hegemonized.

If you'd care to object to the assertion that posts concerned primarily with their own origins rather than with any objective substance (what TM might call a 'post-modernist circle-jerk' if he liked hyphens and were present) make SW suck, here is also a good place to do so. I am prepared to defend my hypothesis on philosophical grounds, although I would gladly concede it to be wrong if serious research does not bear it out.

[ Tuesday, February 20, 2007 01:50: Message edited by: Protocols of the Elders of Zion ]
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
Oldbiehood -- Analysis in General
Najosz Thjsza Kjras
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
 written Tuesday, February 20 2007 00:47 Profile #55
quote:
Originally written by Being of Alo:

That is not dead which can eternal lie...

—Alorael, who is pretty sure that most of the Spiderweb cults lie incessantly. It may not be quite eternal, but it's close enough.
It stopped being cool when I stopped giving out WTF Awards, buddy.

(Pederast.)
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
The Ancient Greeks in General
Najosz Thjsza Kjras
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
 written Monday, February 19 2007 20:56 Profile #74
quote:
Originally written by Kyrek:

Ok then, I give in. I thought that was how it worked, but since I am wrong I no longer think that Greeks are genetically stronger than modern people. I surrender.
Well, hey, since you were gracious, let me clear up a little bit about what I was talking about.

Re. record falsification: The problem is that very few written records survive a long time, especially in ancient Greece. Books just didn't exist on stuff like records and ship construction; for the most part stuff like that was oral tradition.

The Greeks didn't have a strong skeptic tradition like we do now, so a little falsification could go a long way.

As for how strength increases genetically: the only way for strength to promote itself genetically is for strength to be a selecting factor evolutionarily.

In other words, if having a genetic disposition to might makes you pass on more genes and bear more children, over time those might genes will show up more. This is the same for any sets of genes.

Quick example: the trait that causes sickle-cell anemia also confers resistance to malaria, which is a huge cause of illness and death in sub-saharan Africa. In areas where malaria is not a threat, sickle-cell anemia sufferers have no advantages over the normal population and tend to die off before reproducing, or at least before reproducing much. In areas with endemic malaria, on the other hand, sickle-cell anemia is better than the alternative, which is death by malaria at a very early age (possibly before puberty, which removes you from the gene pool, period).

That's why the sub-saharan African population has a disproportionate amount of sickle-cell anemia.

Bear in mind that developed over thousands of years, and involved EXTREMELY DRASTIC SELECTION - sickle-cell anemia is very dangerous to your health and well-being, and so is malaria. This is stuff that is a matter of life or death before puberty. Get the wrong trait (in Africa, SSA; in Europe, lack thereof) and your genes won't pass on; get the right one and they will. (It isn't quite as dramatic as all that, but it's pretty close.)

Now, any genetic determiner of strength - let's say there's a gene which allows you to bulk up faster, speeds up your metabolism, or makes you taller - is generally not a huge selective force. If you're from an area where mulish labor, possibly to the death, is required from the entire population - say, the Incas in the 16th through 19th centuries - then you might start seeing genetic potential for strength growing. (Anyone with a genetic disposition to physical weakness would fail to pass on their genes.)

But you need millennia to remove or render endemic specific genes. In the case of the Inca, you might have a skewed spread of strength/weakness genes, but it happened too quickly and was sustained for too little time to cause serious natural selection at the genetic level.

Incidentally, this is the same reason some people have black skin and others white: lower levels of melanin increase the natural lifespan in temperate climates, because the farther north you get the less sun you get day-to-day, and the better your skin should be at absorbing what little sunlight you get directly. So people fortunate enough to be born with genetics causing less pigmentation lived longer and had more kids in northerly (or, in some areas, southerly) climes, whereas people born with more pigmentation near the tropics tended to live longer and have more kids.

Again, this is a clear example of genetic selection taking a lot of time. The natives of Ecuador look closer to Chinese people than Congolese people, even though they share a latitude - this is because the Congolese have had eons to adapt darker skin, but the Ecuadorians originated somewhere in Asia and have only been selected towards darker pigmentation since a few millennia ago.

As for now? That's basically over: Vitamin D is synthesized and products and animals containing it are sold around the world, and sunscreen and protective clothing are readily available. Appropriateness for the solar climate in terms of melanin is no longer a selecting factor; it is more or less as easy for a Swede to have a dozen children in Kenya as it is for a !Kung.

Does that mean evolution is over? No. Now it just works in different ways.

Whatever makes you survive longer and have more kids is evolutionarily favorable - IF it can be inherited.

Fundamentalist Mormons have many, many kids, but that's not evolutionarily relevant - their kids aren't born fundie-Mormons, they're made fundie-Mormons.

---

To simplify it all, this is how evolution works:

If you have a trait that can be inherited genetically, it's a candidate for [natural] selection.

If having it prevents you from reproducing, it is selected out. Fewer kids will be born with it, or born carrying it, in the next generation than this one. If having it doesn't prevent you from reproducing, it is not selected out.

If having it helps you reproduce more, it is selected favorably. More kids will be born with it, or carrying it, in the next generation than this one.

Occasionally, traits mutate into your genetic makeup from nowhere. If they have no effect on reproducability, they don't select one way or the other. Otherwise, they apply the same way.

Some traits mutate very readily. This is why every generation sees the birth of intersexed children, most of whom are sterile and the few of whom who are not do not tend to reproduce much.

Sometimes a mutated trait succeeds very well, and becomes endemic. Sometimes an established trait fails completely and falls from the population within a few generations, returning only in sporadic mutations.

Genetics is a fun field. It's more complex than all that, but that's the foundations of it. In humans, evolutionary genetics is a pretty much moot field; there are just too many open questions as far as what causes who to reproduce more, especially with the advent of modern medicine.
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
The Ancient Greeks in General
Najosz Thjsza Kjras
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
 written Sunday, February 18 2007 18:45 Profile #62
Trireme-crewing was an honor, not slave-work, remember: only fairly well-off (e.g. well-fed) Greeks were allowed to do so.

And because the Greeks put an astounding value on athleticism, the result was a class of relatively physically robust people with grueling training behind them.

The Greeks would almost certainly have run circles around, say, the Parthians, who didn't have the same kind of athletic training and probably wouldn't have been crewing their triremes with the middle-to-upper-class.

However, looking at the conclusion of this study as saying that the Greeks had superhuman strength is faulty: it's much more plausible (remember Occam's Razor) that the Greeks' speed at sea was exaggerated (remember, they also believed Poseidon controlled the sea) and/or that ancient triremes were constructed, maintained, or sailed in a speed-increasing manner more or less lost to history.
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
Calling all empires in General
Najosz Thjsza Kjras
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
 written Friday, February 9 2007 00:16 Profile #23
quote:
Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar:

During it’s height, the Chinese Empire was the most powerful entity in the world, easily. However, many circumstances that would take too long to explain here saw the Empire reduced to a secondary power in the shadow of the growing European empires.
I can understand why 'opium and heavy flooding' might tax Tully's ability to explain.

quote:
The Chinese Emperor had a somewhat divine status to his people. He was considered as ruling by a 'mandate of heaven' and was refered to as the 'son of heaven.' But really, if someone wanted to overthrow him and was successful, that would simply be considered the will of heaven as well, so Chinese emperors did not hide behind religion the way European rulers did.
The 'mandate of heaven' simply meant that God favored the biggest divisions. The Europeans believed that too; the divine right of kings boiled down to much the same thing, because European kings had the same origin and there ain't exactly many dukes or princes ruling globe-spanning empires in the annals of history.

quote:
The Chinese Empire fell, sadly, to the forces communism. The last emperor lived out his life as a peasant, and died childless.
Tullegolar apparently considers being molly-coddled by the Japanese Empire - the most terrifyingly efficient political engine ever conceived by man to brutalize man - as puppet emperor of Manchukuo 'life as a peasant'.

...

Empires are systems designed so that one person, or a small group thereof, can oppress as many people as possible. They're specifically such systems once they've passed a critical mass and that one person no longer retains control of the entire operation, or is even a major oppressor any more. The blood on Britain's hands is on Victoria's hands only metonymically; private initiative was what kicked the Opium War off and the decision to invade China was largely foisted on the (admittedly reactionary-inclined) Japanese monarchy by a ruthless, vampiric economic aristocracy. (No contradiction here: the Japanese industrialist tended to be from a well-established house.)

The American empire does the like of Bush and Cheney plenty of good, but it's beyond the point that it's just to their benefit. There's a whole peanut gallery of imperial exploiters ready to play puppetmaster on every corner of the Earth. Once an empire is compelled to let go of - or, usually far worse, finishes with - one place, it goes after another without even a pause for breath.

Calling something an 'empire' because it is ruled by an Emperor is pretty asinine, but I guess that's what one can expect from Geneforge fans, period-costume enthusiasts, and similar mouth-breathers.

quote:
Originally written by Tyranicus.:

quote:
Originally written by Dahak:

The Persian Empire
Opponents of the Romans/Greeks.
The Persian Empire was long gone by the time Rome arrived on the scene. :P
I'd call you a flouncing idiot for ignoring the Parthian Empire, but given who else is active here, I don't think it'd exactly be fair.

[ Friday, February 09, 2007 00:19: Message edited by: Protocols of the Elders of Zion ]
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
Not yeti another photo thread in General
Najosz Thjsza Kjras
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
 written Friday, February 9 2007 00:01 Profile #37
THE ANGLES KILLED THE JEWS

[ Friday, February 09, 2007 00:01: Message edited by: Protocols of the Elders of Zion ]
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00

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