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Avernum 4 Complete Wish List in The Avernum Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #80
Seems like some good suggestions, though some of these I've already done. I will post the one about bringing back Exile's item descriptions and the street graffiti (as long as the game doesn't actively describe it to you, it's just there), as well as being able to equip your keep or fort or army, which would be a part of running one if the player so chooses.

When A4 comes out it will more than likely fall short of what these suggestions hope it will be, but we can dream.

Edit: I think I'm changing the part about weapon classes, VCH. Unless I'm insane, I remember bronze weapons. I think I remember stone ones from Avernum 2 (or was it Nethergate)? Rather, it'd be better if we got advanced weapon classes such as: Mithril, Adamantium, Vahnatai-craft, perhaps a rare and powerful metal from Avernum called Avernite that has innate magical properties of it's own (dark blue would be a cool color for that).

[ Friday, June 24, 2005 06:30: Message edited by: Verelor ]
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00
Avernum 4 Complete Wish List in The Avernum Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #76
Jeff seems to hate a heck of a lot of things about games, hm?

Additionally, f*** you Alorael.
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00
Avernum 4 Complete Wish List in The Avernum Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #73
Thanks for remaining open-minded btw. Ok amybe camels are out but horses, while they must be taken care of with food and other things like characters ahve to be and can die adn take hits as well, they would provide many speed and combat adventages. Elephants are very slow and can panic easily but expeially for ranging characters can provide a multitude of combat advantages. Ships would work jsut as they did in A2, except they would be large enough for many-man crews, and can be armed and encounter and battle sea enemies like large sea monsters and even pirates! A seperate battle system wouldn't be necessary, something like the current Avernum battle system would do ship vs. ship combat a fair amount of justice.

As for actually building your own fort, that's jsut not going to happen. Rather taking control of an already existing fort or town or a military unit for a while is still viable. :)
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00
Avernum 4 Complete Wish List in The Avernum Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #71
Fine then. You can just keep saying no and no to all sh**.
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00
Avernum 4 Complete Wish List in The Avernum Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #69
4 new suggestions have been added to the list! Please leave a comment and if you have a soul left in you, make up a suggestion of your own.

So noone remembers Lords of Magic: Special Edition? Eh. Too bad, then. I do believe that LoM was one of the most perfect PC titles ever made. They just got everything right in that gem of a game title.

[ Thursday, June 23, 2005 12:53: Message edited by: Verelor ]
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00
Avernum 4 Complete Wish List in The Avernum Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #67
And a checkbox for music/no music and completely redone sounds taht dont sound so jerky and emerassing to show to your friends and I will be a happy camper.

No matter what, it had better be different. Also, if 2-d sprite animations slow down your computer when you play, it's not the game, it's YOU. Starcraft has had beautiful Geneforge-quality graphics for almost 10 years now since release and that worked nicely on my last computer before my last computer.
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00
Avernum 4 Complete Wish List in The Avernum Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #64
Regardless, if the new engine turns out to be a lot like Exile it will still be totally lame.

Seeing as how we are just irreversably off topic here I would request a forum admin or mod delete this topic or set it back on track or something. After a few replies everythign just got out of hand.
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00
Avernum 4 Complete Wish List in The Avernum Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #62
The new engine being more like Exile? I would sure hope to God it isn't. No matter who you are, you ahve to agree that Exile is a large step back from Avernum in every way. This is supposed to be an evolution, not a degeneration. Exile is horribly dated now, looks a mess, and is simply not fit anymore for even fans of classic games like Ultima 2 and Wizardry. By new engine I am altogether placing my bets on something far from Geneforge but yet closer.

Also, in the surface being an extremely wondrous and alien world to the characters, it takes the player back and makes them think just how amazing their own lives truly are. Things we do not think about suddenly become interesting.

Jeff says screenshots and info will arrive in a couple or a few months, and they will tell everything. And well, if it does turn out to be a lot more like Exile than anything, well, I will be damned.

[ Thursday, June 23, 2005 12:26: Message edited by: Verelor ]
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00
Avernum 4 Complete Wish List in The Avernum Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #58
Not everyone like Geneforge's gameplay (which is still really similair at teh skeleton level to Avernum), but most do.

As for surpassing the Geneforge engine, that'd be splendid. Getting technically almost as good is what is important, however.

Rather than keeping Geneforge and Avernum's gameplay as seperate as possible intentionally, how bout just doing what makes the game most fun?

A4 spawning a whole new trilogy? Unless this works something like the 6 Star Wars movies, I want no part of it. All grand tales must know when to stop.

I personally also hope that simce A4 will not be an Exile remake like all the others, that will not ahrm it since everything that is designed will ahve to be built from the ground up rather than remaking and touching up concepts.

[ Thursday, June 23, 2005 12:01: Message edited by: Verelor ]
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00
Avernum 4 Complete Wish List in The Avernum Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #57
Also, if he is going to release Avernum 4 (something he himself once said he'd never do), he'd better make sure he releases it as soon as possible, actually. The further and further he waits to release it after BoA, the more and more the entire Avernum story will clash with itself.

In my opinion a Nethergate 2 or a compeltely different game saga would be a perfect choice at this point.
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00
Avernum 4 Complete Wish List in The Avernum Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #54
And why the hell not? What is so wrong with being able to have nice animations and real-time out-of-combat exploration? It worked flawlessly in exactly 3 games I dont think I have to mention. You damn conservative. I didn't specifically say make it Geneforge but without the geneforge, I just said it would be an improvement if the gameplay resembled it a bit more.
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00
Avernum 4 Complete Wish List in The Avernum Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #51
So it has been confirmed that A4 will use a different engine? Hopefuly the gameplay will resembe Geneforge a bit more. And will be a completely different experience.

The story should really be different from the 3 current games. If it were told far into the future (it would be exciting to be able to revisit the entire world and see how drastically everything has changed in perhaps 80 years) and from a far diferent angle if possible (I would guess the Empire point of view, since Vahnetai is far too much to hope for here) with at least a Geneforge amount of choice as to how the plot evolves.
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00
Avernum 4 Complete Wish List in The Avernum Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #49
Frankly, unless you are an experienced Spiderweb junkie, you will be hard-pressed to tell the difference between a screenshot of 3 different Avernum games which game is which. This is what risk-free game design policies get us. Not even being able to tell differences between titles without close examination. Tomb Raider, Mario Party, Pokemon series to a lesser extent are all guilty of this sort of stuff. Frankly, I think the important thing is being able to make everyone happy.

While it is important for Jeff to stick to his artistic visions, one of the best ways to improve games and one of the worst ways not to is to design around the feedback of your fans. I believe someone mentioned earlier that Jeff almost never visits these forums, though that is an all-important step in good game design.

[ Thursday, June 23, 2005 10:26: Message edited by: Verelor ]
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00
Avernum 4 Complete Wish List in The Avernum Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #47
Marx' Martyr, maybe you shouldn't be playing Spiderweb Software games or most games altogether if you hate them so much. Perhaps you require an in-game genre changeup every 15 minutes but that won't work out for a small shareware games publisher. Go go far away from this discussion. Noone's even responding to the original topic anymore! Please stay on topic! Let us please get back to the original Avernum 4 dream list and not worry about whether Jeff will or will not implement the suggestions! That's why it is a simple wish list: you just suggest what you want to see or not see in the next game without worrying about the technicalities unless it's just out of the question.

[ Thursday, June 23, 2005 10:15: Message edited by: Verelor ]
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00
Avernum 4 Complete Wish List in The Avernum Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #42
Here's to Spiderweb designing Avernum 4 off of the Geneforge engine. I do think that would be perfect. Otherwise why even play Avernum 4 when Blades of Avernum has spoiled us over?
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00
Dam energy pulse mind crystal in The Avernum Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #10
Character Editor? For cheaters? I guarantee you if you are all but the most experienced and hardened of players you will get stuck at one point or another and at least need a full party heal or a couple hundred gold.

[ Thursday, June 23, 2005 07:41: Message edited by: Verelor ]
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00
Avernum 4 Complete Wish List in The Avernum Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #40
Several years? Hm that's enough for the release of a completely new, original trilogy (though I ahve absolutely no idea what it could be like. Horrer adventures might be a nice idea). Unless they think releasing Geneforge 4 and Avernum 4 and potentially 5 is a good idea in that period of time, which would be a very poor idea indeed.
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00
Avernum 4 Complete Wish List in The Avernum Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #38
If they ever decide to make a Blades of Geneforge (and by God, they'd better not call it that), that would be so great. I'd have about the only game I need for the next 2 or 3 years :D

Here's to hoping SW considers the idea (which is probably too much to hope for).
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00
Avernum 4 Complete Wish List in The Avernum Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #36
quote:
And saying that Geneforge is "nearing" monotony is like saying that our president is "nearing" conservatism. Geneforge is as monotonous as being damned to the level of hell where you are alone in a room and push a red button for the rest of eternity.
I disagree. In Geneforge 2 and 3 and even 1 every day was a new adventure. Maybe you're just bored. You might be somewhat right about Exile 1, but that was a first effort and very good for one.

Also, what is so bad about having plagues in your games? What? Valley of Dying Things was some of the best Avernum gaming out there.

Did you ahve to diss almost every Spiderweb Software game in existance in a single post?
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00
Avernum 4 Complete Wish List in The Avernum Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #33
quote:
Personally, I don't think that 'more advanced' graphics make a game better. I think that the Exile graphics are better than the Avernum graphics because they help provide a real atmosphere. You feel right in the midst of your characters, rather than looking down on them from afar in Avernum.
I actually completely agree with you about this. Though Avernum's graphics happened to be more complicated and were isometric (poor movement), Exile's still somehow remain better after all these years (though Exile's graphics still handle some things like water, pits, ledges, etc. sort of emberassingly).

Where do you get the idea, though, that as a game's technology gets better the story and characters get proportionately worse? Let me site a good example: mostly every Final Fantasy game improved technically over it's predecessor yet looked better and better (and Jeff says he hates music in games). You SW people have heard of Final Fantasy before, right? :P Just kidding.

I am definitely still for Avernum 4 having a soundtrack. However it'd be best if it were handled this way. Let us look back upon an old gem called Lords of Magic, a several years old PC title. It had background music most of the time that didn't do the least to disturb the player (it was more that soothing, elevator type of music, but more...fantasylike). Then when a battle begins in the overworld map (and only in the overworld), like LoM Avernum 4 should have some really cool, exciting battle music, with a few alterating selections, so it wouldn't get repetitive. So everyone would be happy, Jeff would of course give us the option to just switch it off. And perhaps have A4's sounds to not be so quick, taplike, and abrupt.

[ Thursday, June 23, 2005 06:53: Message edited by: Verelor ]
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00
Avernum 4 Complete Wish List in The Avernum Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #24
Wait now, there's people who DON'T want game-crashing bugs fixed?

[ Wednesday, June 22, 2005 17:50: Message edited by: Verelor ]
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00
Avernum 4 Complete Wish List in The Avernum Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #21
I dunno cause golf is a game, something you would do for fun and enjoyment, and it's....dull.

Also what concerns me is all these games that say they get really cool you just have to play them for awhile. I know designers work their hearts out for games, but imagine if you were starved for 2 weeks and got to eat a fantastic 5-course meal but first have to sit through a 2-hour sermon about the rigors of chewing and proper tooth cleanup after meals.

[ Wednesday, June 22, 2005 16:58: Message edited by: Verelor ]
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00
Avernum 4 Complete Wish List in The Avernum Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #18
Don't get me wrong. I still sometimes fondly play text adventures. Though the fact that my computer's modern Windows XP SP 2 running computer has lost most or all MS-DOS compatability limits my classic gaming options severely.
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00
Avernum 4 Complete Wish List in The Avernum Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #16
An RPG that takes 100+ hours to complete? Sounds great. Until you threw in the repetitive part. Why play a game for 100 hours if it is repetitive and frankly not fun? Prolong the pain?

Anyway, we're getting way off topic here. Someone please offer feedback on the individual suggestions or suggest new ones. I haven't got any suggestions yet. I'd much prefer them to criticism of soemthign that may not be realistically programmable on Jeff's budget but is nice to dream about.

And could everyone just quit with their "Animations? Strategy elements? Please God no" demeanor? It really doesn't make you look more hardcore. Well, maybe. :rolleyes:
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00
Avernum 4 Complete Wish List in The Avernum Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #14
quote:
Originally written by Manhood Typing Kelandon:

quote:
Originally written by Verelor:

unlike most of the people around here, I see the value of change and trying something that seems a bit out of there.
Perhaps you still need to be acquainted with Jeff's stated design philosophy: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." :P

Oh, so by the same theory you're ok with buying the same Pokemon game for the 11th-something time?
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00

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