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A3: The first party of explorers. in The Avernum Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 5520
Profile #19
So three guys and one girl. The guys dumped the girl dead in a pit, covered with slimey oozes. Then one went off ended up in a pile of filth, the other was a money mad, and the last preferred softport. I think I overestimated Anaximanders prowess in choing a group.

[ Monday, February 28, 2005 17:05: Message edited by: whitenightever ]
Posts: 53 | Registered: Saturday, February 19 2005 08:00
Article - bjlhct2 On Scenario Design pt 1: Linearity in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 5520
Profile #40
Dear SkeleTony.

To each his own. . . then why would you argue that because you find 'the sort of "excitement"' in books, if others find 'the sort of "excitement"' in a game it is absurd, and cannot it be called a game? Should it then be called a book instead? Correct me if I am saying nonsense please.

Now you point out the defining characteristic of RPGs as

A scenario in which the player has a good deal of input/interaction is a roleplaying game. (quote: SkeleTony)

I think you could clarify this meaning further. When you said 'a scenario', did you confine it to the BoE or BoA scenarios, I believe you did not, for surely there are other RPG games than Exiles and Avernum and for that BoE or BoA.

Then you mentioned 'interaction' but what are the parties that are typically engaged in this interaction that you define as RPG elapses me. And, how much is a 'good deal'? Not to fester you with dumb questions. But, for, as surely* as I know the meaning of 'Interaction', one has to put a lot more input in the interaction into a two player beat up games such as Tekken and Street Fighters whether one plays against com or human. No? I trust you would enlighten me on this further.

* Well now I am beginning to be not so sure though.

** sorry for frequent editing I will be more careful next time.

[ Monday, February 28, 2005 13:45: Message edited by: whitenightever ]
Posts: 53 | Registered: Saturday, February 19 2005 08:00
Article - bjlhct2 On Scenario Design pt 1: Linearity in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 5520
Profile #36
quote: Drakefyre
Riddles - these are awful and should just be thrown out
Enchanting!!
Posts: 53 | Registered: Saturday, February 19 2005 08:00
Article - bjlhct2 On Scenario Design pt 1: Linearity in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 5520
Profile #33
Sirs. the puzzles astounds me to my utmost puzzlement. Please allow me to clarify myself.

First of all, most of us know the portcullis type ‘puzzle’ which normally do not involve any danger of dying unless you dance too much in front of them and starve to death. This kind of puzzle that we meet in the Exiles can surely be totally distinguished from combat? Though there are in between situation where both elements are mixed like the test of speed or strength in the second chapter of Exile II. In this term, I totally agree with Skeletony on his opinion regarding the existence of distinction between such puzzle and such battle.

Secondly, nobody would be able to argue with Lynfox that different tactics could change the tide of battle.(did I get it right?) This, I believe was what implied by Skeletony when he used the word ‘dynamic situation’ though Lynfox also called a puzzle for which I think both could be right cause Skeletony seems to confine the word ‘puzzle’ as against combat within the play-game situation or character point of view,(am I the only one wrong?) While Lynfox seems to think the word ‘puzzle’ as something that ‘puzzle the players mind’ and the stubborn player uses all his (well in my case) intellectual power to sort out or player point of view.

Thirdly, if Thurryl said ‘combat is just another puzzle’ I would have thought it an overstatement, though it is understandable in his context which was even outside gamer's point of view rather than the 'game character point of view' Skeletony adopts. However, in this matter, Thurryl merely said ‘combat is just a certain kind of puzzle’(emphasis mine all MINE) and now for me this sounds as if he is still giving more distance than if he said ‘just another puzzle’. . . no?

Suffice it to say that there are puzzle element in battles perhaps???(am I not only puzzled but dumbfound?)

But what about Cops and Robbers where can I download it? Is it any good?

[ Monday, February 28, 2005 12:19: Message edited by: whitenightever ]
Posts: 53 | Registered: Saturday, February 19 2005 08:00
Registering/buying BoA/BoE in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 5520
Profile #7
Shorter 'tail' when you move around in the towns and dungeons for one thing??
Posts: 53 | Registered: Saturday, February 19 2005 08:00
Registering/buying BoA/BoE in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 5520
Profile #5
Dear my berespected adept forumer Overwhelming

I do not recall receiving any serious memorabilla of that sort except a booklet of few hints which I, quite honestly, lost or maybe binned it away. I think I knew most of the contents from the help files by that time anyway. Anyone who would correct me please do so.

My pure guess for the existence of the CD is that the creator Jeff Vogel Esq. personally wanted to make some hard copy version, . . . something that can be kept and boxed or even inherited . . . perhaps as a personal memorial for the success of Exile series that was to be forgotten while he was determined to move into another stage of game development. One clue for me was the Easter Egg Jeff in Exile III said: "I would rather be in the glossy boxed games like Diablo - the notorious memory waster - rather than this cheap shareware thinggy" or something like that. I killed him.

Anyway, that CD did not have a box nor was a full sized one. . . but still had a semi-transparent plastic case and the title page of BoE printed on the face of the CD with all the demos to allure my purse. Quite a memorabilla for me. I think I will inherit it to my children.

Edit: That CD was a full sized one. I regret and feel sorry for my rashness.

[ Tuesday, March 01, 2005 17:57: Message edited by: whitenightever ]
Posts: 53 | Registered: Saturday, February 19 2005 08:00
Registering/buying BoA/BoE in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 5520
Profile #1
Dear my gallant comrade PDF

When I registered the BoE. The Spidweb sent an e-mail containing the address where I could download the full version while waiting for the CD, and password to access that file of course.i.e. you would not have to wait all that long. The CD that arrived later conained most of the demos (including all avernum exile, genoforge. . ) and was in fact very useful. So if you have a tolerably good connection I suggest you do it right away. Happy Adventuring.

[ Monday, February 28, 2005 07:14: Message edited by: whitenightever ]
Posts: 53 | Registered: Saturday, February 19 2005 08:00
Article - bjlhct2 On Scenario Design pt 1: Linearity in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 5520
Profile #25
I haven't played any of the BoA scenarios but if it is a matter of good or bad scenarios than I guess my experience with the BoE and other rather 'primitive' (used here with much fondness) RPG would qualify me to put some words here.

For a start, some multiple ended scenarios, such as described in (option 3) of our honourable colleague bjlhct2, I am afraid, could end up just making the player feeling as if coming out of the toilet, after diarrhoea, without wiping the bum. Yet, I also remember many good multiple ended scenarios among the BoE scenarios that made me wonder what would have happened if I did not do such and such, or where would have I done wrong. . . and play again and again as a dual with the creator. (Luckily that particular scenario - redemption? - was short.^^)

Call me outdated. But most of the RPG I played to the end had good strong stories, I tend to get attracted by the story then anything else (confessedly except for a beauty). But of course I think they all had a degree of non-linearity, multiple choice or open-endedness about them. C’mon who among those that played *Ultima* series had not attacked Lord British or use *Skull* to devastate a village? We all rob dragons don’t we? What about Exile II, is it linear or non-linear?

Yet on the other hands, what is it that makes me so utterly bored of Diablo? Is it its desperately obvious linearity to the point of being *pointlessness*? Or meaningless slash and hack which was the only fun that soon lost its magic making it *purposeless*? (Quake would have been a much better “role-playing” than Diablo on this.) Oh, and some of the experimental BoE scenarios that looked more like animations than games would be the other extreme, though, I am sure, the berespected makers themselves meant it that way.

Yah, I agree with Ash Lael. I go for stories when a game is concerned. It’s the story that makes me keep playing it till way past breakfast time, and make me keep thinking of it when I finally go to bed the next day. I think the worst is the unskilful handling of plots, whether linear or non-linear; one goal or multiple ended: Not the linear or non-linear structure itself but the pointlessness or the purposelessness that seems to push me off. And I think most of the above writers agree on this as well.(am I wrong again?)

Cut-scenes as well. The best moments to watch cut scenes (and the ones that I actually read) were when I felt I have made a major breakthrough: after all the strife that sucked the essence of your (gaming) soul out of you , finally my beloved guys have achieved something; when I sit back and feel smug about meself, lit up a ciggy (bad habit though) and look at the result of my deeds. But even at those moments bad cut scenes would work as an anti-climax.

Bear with me for adding one last and final thing regarding voice cut-scenes. Oh you divine creators of the scenarios please heed this humble request of a non-English speaker and at least do not put any important clue in in. . . more audience you capture, the more chance you become successful init? Pleeezzzz proveides eet least ssserbteitlesss . . .

[ Friday, March 04, 2005 13:49: Message edited by: banned sapmmer ]
Posts: 53 | Registered: Saturday, February 19 2005 08:00
Hi, new here, compelling game ! in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 5520
Profile #8
Hello! Enchante! Begitu! Nice seeing the apparition of your posts here!
War blessing. . . doesn't it tend to make your fighters make more satisfactory sounds when they beat the baddies? I wonder if someone can give more percentage-oriented or numerically-calculated explanation for this.

Edit: . . . which has already been given while me typin. :P

Edit2 : You might want to download and play the demo. I am still exploring more of the BoE - which I registered some months ago - largely because of my old machine's memory shortage. I am quite fond of it, too. But I think BoA, though I just played the demo version, and that partly only, not only enhances the graphic and other effects but gives more possibilities for those good guys that would spend time developing scenarios and letting me download free of charge.

[ Monday, February 28, 2005 04:16: Message edited by: whitenightever ]
Posts: 53 | Registered: Saturday, February 19 2005 08:00
Weapons and Warfare in Avernum. in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 5520
Profile #27
I presume we could always catch a null-bug by physical means. . .like a giant trap. . . or get them as eggs and raise as pets . . . or even do nasty experiments and take the essence of the ever-present anti-magic field and make anti-magic cloak or sort of . . . Hmm.. that might be handy to carry around. . . wonder whether it would be possible. . . I might have to start attempting on making a scenario first. . . or for that matter . . . register in the meantime.

[ Monday, February 28, 2005 04:01: Message edited by: whitenightever ]
Posts: 53 | Registered: Saturday, February 19 2005 08:00
E4? in The Exile Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 5520
Profile #4
If that happens, in my humble opinion, that will prove only that Jeff really really really has time and money to burn.
Posts: 53 | Registered: Saturday, February 19 2005 08:00
Who is your favorite exile? in The Exile Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 5520
Profile #19
My vote goes to Linda the brave (and a misunderstood blundermaker)

Sorry M's Provoc. I wish Elspeth was on the list for not so obvious reasons and Oh Rose, who ordered lots of beer for herself.

Nobody seems to like King Micah.
Hmm... his gloves were alright though.

[ Sunday, February 27, 2005 20:33: Message edited by: whitenightever ]
Posts: 53 | Registered: Saturday, February 19 2005 08:00
Best story? in The Exile Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 5520
Profile #17
Rather difficult to choose. . . but I am for the Exile II. The most exciting waterfall ride and that into the unknown, where the plot meets a sudden change. Should get the A2 next.
Posts: 53 | Registered: Saturday, February 19 2005 08:00
Guardians! Help! in The Exile Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 5520
Profile #7
It's the tomb of Delrin-bok, one of the two deranged dead alien pain in the bottom, on the way to Fort Haledon, one section west of Olgai. The area around it is also infested with these baddies rendering it one of the least pleasant spot to be in all exile.

When I read 'Ahbleza' above, I thought I solved the problem. . . (The speed of course! that's why I couldn't see the breath.) . . . I tried it, yes, but I still cannot see anything from these filth-breathing invisible low-lives. In the end, I applied generous doses of Character Editing, before finally ran out of the tomb. . . without solving the puzzle, irritated to the bottom.

Oh dear my fellow adventurers of the underworld. . . Could it be the settings of my machine? or is it originally not visible in the Exile II(unlike III)? Well, may be my party is just not strong enough.

In case you have solved, do any of you know what's in there?

[ Friday, February 25, 2005 05:20: Message edited by: whitenightever ]
Posts: 53 | Registered: Saturday, February 19 2005 08:00
Guardians! Help! in The Exile Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 5520
Profile #4
Got it! Thank You All. Especially Ahbleze.
That's why I couldn't see their breath!
eeee. pretty obvious!
Posts: 53 | Registered: Saturday, February 19 2005 08:00
no subject really in General
Warrior
Member # 5520
Profile #9
sssss . . mee sssthinksss thatssss eerrelevant to the topicssss ssssorry. . .ssss. . . ssss. ... sseee yoursss own profilesss for sthat mattersss.

[ Tuesday, February 22, 2005 05:09: Message edited by: whitenightever ]
Posts: 53 | Registered: Saturday, February 19 2005 08:00
no subject really in General
Warrior
Member # 5520
Profile #7
Might need more time to savour, for I could not feel, any rhythm from the lines, rolling in my mouth. Forgive me my imprudence, I am but a student, of this new language utterly foreign. This be the only point, self could think of, but I do feel the efforts you have put into it, . . . and admire as such, for that I could not.

Yess. my meagre opinion sshould not limitsss your talentssss....

[ Tuesday, February 22, 2005 03:41: Message edited by: whitenightever ]
Posts: 53 | Registered: Saturday, February 19 2005 08:00
Guardians! Help! in The Exile Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 5520
Profile #0
Am currently playing Exile II crystal souls - again -. When I first played I skipped this Vahnati tomb infested with guardians. How best do I deal with this? They're so annoyingly difficult to deal with.

[ Monday, February 21, 2005 18:57: Message edited by: whitenightever ]
Posts: 53 | Registered: Saturday, February 19 2005 08:00
A Question of Realmz?? in General
Warrior
Member # 5520
Profile #6
Oh yes. . . also the vastness of characters and 'races', restrictions and specialties attached to each, made me play again and again trying different combinatoins. Though, the Exile made this all upon the skill points distribution making it possible for the player to develop their own.

Cheeers!
Posts: 53 | Registered: Saturday, February 19 2005 08:00
Anybody out there finish Avernum 3? in The Avernum Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 5520
Profile #8
dervish n. . . a member of any of a number of Muslim religious groups, some of which are famous for dancing, spinning around, shouting loudly, etc. as religious practices - Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English, 1987.

Hmm. . . sounds rather funny, "dancing, spinning around, shouting loudly". . . which some of my dumb characters could have done. . . Ooops, sorry for disturbance but me a non-native English user. Is it time that I invest on a new dictionary?

Anyway, it can only mean an honorary dervish if the Dervish means heavily armoured fighters in the order of Empire army. How could my mages and priests have become a dervish. . . well Avernum 4 should tell, I suppose.
Posts: 53 | Registered: Saturday, February 19 2005 08:00
A Question of Realmz?? in General
Warrior
Member # 5520
Profile #5
Thank you . . . ummm . . . *Concubine*.
I didn't know this thread was still hanging on here and thought it got deleted for some reason. . . Still learning my way around. :)

Yes, I also love to chat about the Realmz. Despite the similarities, there were, obviously, some differences which I think still make good points for comparison.

No doubt that Exile was and proved to be better, especially, in my opinion, regarding its plot and its ability to draw and drawn the player into the story. On the one hand the Reamlz was very very open-ended and could just roam about without any obligations - well depended on the scenario. But on the other hands it made me wonder what I was doing this for.

And the bugs and crashes apart! Oh, I remember making my characters do 30 attacks every turn with weapons that did not exist in the inventory by exploiting the unfortunate multiple save files and import-export player option in the middle of a scenario.

But, Realmz also had its attraction for me. The idea of a town that is spread out on the same surface map, rather than entered into different level looked more realistic(?); Some of the battle features like quicker ones gets more turns and enemy-first battles when surprised. NPCs, summoned and charmed monsters following the party around to assist in the battles, which makes it possible to move with a battalion of monsters.

I played both of these years back, and in between I moved to many other countries, changed my com several times, and forgotten about these.

Recently had a serious urge to play some good addictive games and found out the Exiles were still there with new series I never knew. . . well I only played up to Exile II. That's when I found out about this forum.

I also tried Realmz but they never sent me the registration code nor replied my e-mail. About the New Centurion. Personally I didn't like the idea of guns, lasers, cannons, bombs, and the likes in an RPG game and never attempted though these constituted a nice surprise in one of their scenario - was it the mithril mountains???

[ Monday, February 21, 2005 18:20: Message edited by: whitenightever ]
Posts: 53 | Registered: Saturday, February 19 2005 08:00
Exile 2 Recorded Messages in The Exile Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 5520
Profile #2
Does record the name of town/location(automatically), but not the name of the person who said so. (not like Exile III)
Sometimes gets confusing.
You might want to put these information by yourself.
Posts: 53 | Registered: Saturday, February 19 2005 08:00
Getting my butt kicked, advice needed in Blades of Exile
Warrior
Member # 5520
Profile #13
Save and Restore and long wait and rest and camp . . . shamelessly . . . steal whenever possible . . . pick up and equip yourself with whatever you can grab. . .

Glad that there is someone else who likes to keep the same party structure as I do. Just one difference I put Priest on the 6th because a priest tend to get heavier armour and more skill points to spare on other fist-fight related skills.

I would not be an expert in all these and had the same problem with you. Not sure how I got through but I remember shamlessly saving/restoring . . . and waiting for luck to come around. . . Really tedious and frustrating at the very beginning but that is part of the fun, I think . . . the Challenge part. . . which gets depreciated when you use the Editor almighty.

Oh! for the sheer joy when you first realise that your fighters knock some serious blow on those bullying bandits and OOOH! for the ecstasy when you hear the screams from those poisoning goblin fighters at almost every blow.

I generally agree with all others who advise on blessed fighters. Well, I did not know, but come to think of it, in the end I gave up using attack spells because they were too taxing on what little SP my spell casters had. Good planned character development, as important as it is, I think, helps more after the infant period.

One down turn in my case. . .after the initial stage my spell casters and thief did not seem to grow as fast or as much as the fighters, which meant I could not develop my party to do any serious adventure that my fighters were willing to do. . . another delicious challenge. . . but alas, I confess that I had succumbed to the seduction of the Editor almighty at this point. Now they are too powerful that I left them in a quarantine area and never allowed them to go out on any other adventure . . . I now regard them as a bigger threat to the BoE than the plague in that valley.

[ Sunday, February 20, 2005 01:00: Message edited by: whitenightever ]
Posts: 53 | Registered: Saturday, February 19 2005 08:00
Favorite Plauge? in The Exile Trilogy
Warrior
Member # 5520
Profile #15
Many Thanks Alorael, I wonder whether keeping this topic suit this particular thread. . . . reference to Troglodytes being fish-men I think I got from the Realmz and the Might and Magic . . . not sure better check . . . but the word Khazi should no doubt be credited to the word spelt in the same way in Indian literature but originally came from Arab and used in the Arabian Nights as well. . . well who knows what others used . . . About Nephilim, Yes, that reminds me that the name appears in the Genesis and some other OTs in the Bible, curiously though, as giants. Funny though, now my mind is fixed on Nephils being cats. No idea when or how they became cat people. Any one? It might be an interesting topic . . . ooops sorry, I don't think this should be in this string.
Posts: 53 | Registered: Saturday, February 19 2005 08:00
A Question of Realmz?? in General
Warrior
Member # 5520
Profile #0
Hello. . .
Am a very new member. . . never joined any of this forum thinggy before. . ."Pls be gentle with me^^"

Very surprised that there are still many people fondly playing Exiles, like myself, . . the first game I really enjoyed after ultima III and IV on Apple platform.

Well the question is. . . when I first played exile on Mac, there was another game called 'Realmz' which looked very similar and I kindda had difficulty in figuring out that these were actually from two different companies. . .

Both had many similarities but most of all, some icons of the characters were/are exactly the same, for example, the female mage in red holding a stick, and the one with one handed axe(or hammer) with red top. . . Do any of you know the relationships between Spiderweb and the producer of the Realmz? just wondering. . . Hope I am not arousing the wrath of Mr. Vogel and his colleagues or the S.E.P.

[ Saturday, February 19, 2005 21:28: Message edited by: whitenightever ]
Posts: 53 | Registered: Saturday, February 19 2005 08:00

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