Getting my butt kicked, advice needed
| Author | Topic: Getting my butt kicked, advice needed |
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Apprentice
Member # 4062
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written Saturday, February 12 2005 17:55
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I attempted the first two scenarios you get with the registered version of Blades of Exile, and i can't seem to make a dent in any monsters. Of course, my parties are created the second i start the scenario so that may be the problem. I was under the impression however, that even starter parties should do well in the first scenario. Am i wandering too far, and totally missing the newbie area? Can someone point this out to me if this is the case? My party consists of 1 sword using warrior, 1 bashing using warrior, 1 polearm using warrior, a thief/archer, priest, and a mage finally. Any decent character build guides? Not sure if im spending points right either. Posts: 38 | Registered: Thursday, March 4 2004 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Saturday, February 12 2005 20:35
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Your party sounds very short on spellcasters. Since spellcasters are probably the most powerful characters at low levels, this may well be your main problem. Try a party of 3 fighters (maybe some of them with a couple of levels of priest spells) and 3 characters with both mage and priest spells. Regarding actual party building, your spellcasters don't really need intelligence any higher than 4 - spend the extra skill points on spell levels or spell points instead. Starting with high spell levels gives you lots of spell points, but not as many as putting those skill points into spell points. Basically, if you want to take your party up to a high level and use it in other scenarios, try and start with your spell levels as high as possible so that you'll get the SP bonus and be able to cast high-level spells when you need to, but if you only want to use the party for one low-level scenario, just go for the spell points instead. Fighters should have Strength and one weapon skill as high as possible, Dexterity no higher than 4, and HP as low as you can get away with -- they'll gain lots of HP when they level up, so you should train health as little as possible. Archers probably aren't worth bothering with. If you think you need a thief, just give one of your fighters about 5 points of Disarm Traps. You don't really need Lockpicking skill at all; there are very few doors that can be picked but not bashed, so bashing and the Unlock spell covers all your bases anyway. Regarding tactics, you can probably get away with using no spells except Bless, Haste, Wound and Fireball at low levels. Cast Bless on a fighter 3 or 4 times in a row, haste him until he has 12 AP, and see what he does to monsters. Experiment with field spells like Wall of Force as well; they do almost as much damage per hit as a level-1 character's Fireball, so they're a very efficient way to use SP. Wound is a good spell for priests to use because it damages absolutely anything, even if it's immune to magic. [ Saturday, February 12, 2005 20:39: Message edited by: Sagieuleaux ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 156
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written Sunday, February 13 2005 01:26
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Sagi's suggestions are one way(and for all I know may be the most efficient way to do things) but I have always tended towards a similar party to your own(1 SLith Pole-Tank, 1 ambidextrous 2-sword wielder, 1 "Big axe/Big sword" guy, 1 Nephil archer-thief(who usually also knows mage & priest spells), 1 priest-type(usually slith) adn 1 mage) and I have never had any problems. Been a while since I played through "Valley of the Dying Things" but starting off, just 'stick to the script' so to speak. If what's-his-name offers you a mission to beat up on lowly goblins or bandits or rats or whatever then do that to build experience. Consult the hint book/walkthrough that came with the game(and is accesible from the menu atop your screen via the "Help/help with the demo" section or whatever it's called). What Sag' says about spellcasting is absolutely right also. Haste and Bless are your friends. -------------------- "I am in a very peculiar business. I travel all over the world telling people what they should already know." - James Randi Posts: 219 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 4062
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written Sunday, February 13 2005 09:15
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Thanks, i didn't really play around with the toolbar at the top, so I didn't notice the hints. I Don't really want to change my party, i like diversity and if its not suicide to play the game with the one I already have, then i'd like to simply tweak there stats instead of give everyone spells. I must have wandered too far, i never noticed anything like goblins yet, simply been running into bandits, which are a -lot- harded in Blades of Exile than they were in Avernum 3. Also came across a bunch of Ogres already, and that was crazy for my starting out party. Posts: 38 | Registered: Thursday, March 4 2004 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 2626
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written Sunday, February 13 2005 10:04
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Don't think you'll ever find agreement on a Party that works for all scenarios. Also, everyone plays as to their own style. Starting a scenario, use the Spell Casters as much as you can until the Fighters get More talented. IMNSHO, I prefer two Fighters, then two Priests, then two Mages. First, I like the redundancy on the Spell Casters. Imagine having only one Priest who gets dumbfounded........ end game! Also, the "extra" abilities; thief, archery and alchemy are just that, extras. If you find a real "need" for that talent in a game, then, by all means, bring one of the PC's up to do the job. I, however, have never found any real use for thievery, archery, nor alchemy. They are "cute", but really waste Skill points that are much more effective on the Pure PC's, (sound like Arachat, don't I?) If you want diversity, by all means, create the extra talents, but I think you'll find that no Archer will ever do the damage a Priest or Mage spell will. And, opening chests? Taking damage, then healing is a better trade off for other skills. And Alchemy? Potions are usually available. So are spells. It's quicker and surer to learn the spell than to find ingredients. Again, just my style, but putting Skill Points into basic abilities is much more rewarding. Only other item is to discuss making a Pure Party of one characteristic only, but that's a whole 'nother story, as would be a scenario that mandates you use a particular style PC, or Party. Play on, experiment, enjoy. There's lots to come. Posts: 257 | Registered: Wednesday, February 12 2003 08:00 |
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For Carnage, Apply Within
Member # 95
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written Monday, February 14 2005 09:54
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Archery is pretty much totally worthless, as is lockpicking. Don't waste skill points on either. Some people like alchemy, but I've never found it to be worthwhile. Also, never, ever, ever make a character who is just a preist or just a mage; instead, make all your spellcasters know both. One you've already poured skill points into intelligence and SP, it's a relatively small investment to train in the other school of spellcasting. It makes your spellcasters more versatile, and also means you don't need more than two or three, freeing up extra slots for fighters to do the real work. For tactics, Thuryl's advice is pretty much dead-on. Always, no matter what, bless anyone who's going to be using physical attacks. Also, don't overlook Light Heal All; it heals almost as much damage as Heal and in general is a better use of SP if more than one PC is hurt. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: More fun than a kick in the shins! Posts: 567 | Registered: Friday, October 5 2001 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 1768
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written Monday, February 14 2005 13:42
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Thuryl's (sagie's) advice is better for players who haven't just started. I'd go with the standard party, on Valley of Dying Things. Don't take a new party into A Small Rebellion, it'll get squashed. First beat VoDT. The help file is much use. -------------------- "Oh, North Wind, why frighten others? In Nature's family all are brothers. Puff and blow and wheeze and hiss; You can't frighten Shingebiss. Bring your frost and ice and snow; I'm still free to come and go. You can never frighten me, One who never fears is FREE!" -Shingebiss, the mighty duck Posts: 830 | Registered: Tuesday, August 20 2002 07:00 |
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Master
Member # 4614
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written Wednesday, February 16 2005 18:26
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You could just set the Preferences lower and use the editor if you get too frustrated. That is, if you want to cheat, which you probably don't. I guess skill comes with practice, though. -------------------- -ben4808 Posts: 3360 | Registered: Friday, June 25 2004 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 5488
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written Wednesday, February 16 2005 18:45
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quote:Well, maybe make a scnario with specials to raise skill points and exp. That's what you can do, unregistered or not! :P -------------------- I wonder how the people can live in some games without using the bathroom commonly or drink any water? They don't change their clothes much, even if they get wounded... Life is a mystery... Posts: 18 | Registered: Thursday, February 10 2005 08:00 |
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Master
Member # 4614
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written Thursday, February 17 2005 18:23
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*laughs menacingly* -------------------- -ben4808 Posts: 3360 | Registered: Friday, June 25 2004 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 2626
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written Saturday, February 19 2005 04:24
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Character Build Guides??? Again, I think that's something you'll just have to decide for yourself. But, generally........... At the beginning of a scenario, using a level 1 starter party, give a fighter, or two, time to grow. Assuming they have a fair amount of hit points, don't actually send them into the fight. Let them be a "meat shield" for the rest of the Party. Then, let the spell casters do the actual "damage" to the enemy. That is, let the Priest(s) cast "wound" spells and the Mage(s) cast "flame", or "fireball" spells. So, you'd have to make the starter Party fighters have decent hit points and armor, while the spell casters would need intelligence and spell points. Again, I find that things like archery, etc. are pretty much a waste of time until you've established the Party's strength. Even then they're not much real value compared to the higher level spells. Even if you acquire a "good" bow, or crossbow, it still won't do the damage the spells do. The only other thing I could add is to be patient! If you want to play the scenario "straight", (not editing), then it will take a while to get past the earlier rounds. If you're only receiving 2 or 3 points per "kill" then it takes a long time to attain the 100+ points to reach the next level. Later in the game when you receive 50 points per "kill" each level comes pretty quickly. It may seem unfair, but usually, during that slow start, the scenario is busy establishing the storyline. So, there's a lot of dialogue to go through, too. Maybe if you took one simple scenario and tried it with several different party styles, that would give you more insight as to how you prefer to play. I actually have three party groups, but normally only use the 2/2/2 group. Posts: 257 | Registered: Wednesday, February 12 2003 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 4784
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written Saturday, February 19 2005 06:26
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Gizmo's step-by-step starting out instructions: If you have never played BoE before (or any of the other Exile games) this is how I suggest you learn the game. Use the prefab party. If you don't know anything about PC stats then just leave them alone. If you do feel free to go in and tinker with the begining stats given. Make sure you equip what ever armor/weapons you have. If you have any money (and not too little food) consider investing in better weapons right away. Your attacks are only as good as the weapon you wield. Save often. In VoDT getting into fights with wandering monsters is the best way to start IMO. So go exploring the outdoors but don't wander too far West. The monsters get much harder once you cross the bridge. In an outdoor fight, line up your fighters right next to each other infront of your spellcasters and have them stand ready. Line up your spellcasters right behind them and have them cast minor bless and minor haste on the fighters. These spells don't last long but for wandering encounters they last long enough. Let the enemy come to you always standing ready. The first couple are usually slain before they can raise a weapon. Usually the monsters will group together in front of you making them the perfect targets for fireballs. I would suggest, though, to let your fighters take care of as many as possible so that they become stronger quicker. Once your fighters have gained a level, seek out a trainer and bring their strength up to at least 4. This will cause them to gain more HP automatically when they gain level. I would continue wandering until your fighters are level five and then switch stradegy's to the same line up but letting your spellcasters kill all the monsters. Have them cast minor bless on the fighters to keep them from being hit and minor haste on each other. Make sure you're not leaving your priests behind. If your mages have already gained levels but your priest has not then have the mages only stand ready while the priests do the work. Again I would continue until everyone was at level 5 but for some it gets too boring too fast. If you are bored, go ahead and delve into the story for a bit. Don't forget to check the eastern mountain wall. There are battles and hidden treasures to find that will help greatly. You might not be ready for the battle with the brigands yet but as long as you save before you go in, you could get some practice with strategy while you fight them. Always kill the spellcasters first. Secondly kill any monster that shoots arrows/spines or can web/curse ect. Experiment with your spells to see what spells do what kind of damage. Once your party is all at level 10 you're ready to venture out further. The more you play, the more you'll be comfortable with venturing at lower levels and the more you'll be able to win at lower levels. Happy gaming. -------------------- Forever Always on Past the End TrueSite for Blades - Blades Walkthroughs Pixle Profusion - BoE Graphics Archive Posts: 563 | Registered: Tuesday, July 27 2004 07:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4
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written Saturday, February 19 2005 20:38
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Wait- what kind of retard would have a fighter (or a mage, for that matter- unless you want them to stick with 0HP for the rest of their lives) have less than 4 strength at any time? Simple creation guide: Fighters... - Dump all of your skill points into strength, purchasing 1-3 ranks in the weapon type you plan on using. (For reference- Pole weapons may or may not have potential, but bashing weapons just plain suck.) - Try to have dexterity at 3, but it's not required. - At higher levels, start putting more points into Assassination, Luck or your weapon skill. Spellcasters... - Dump all of your skill points into both spell skills. Don't shy away from mage spells 7 when starting out; this is the best time to get it. - Raise your intelligence to 3 if you want, but magi are better off with Conflagration and priests are better off with Wound. - You'll eventually want 3-4 strength on your magi. They won't enter combat, but it's a far more economical way of getting super-high hit points than buying it directly. Unless you actually want higher-level spell skills, just dump your skill points into spell points. Get better weapons immediately, and do NOT wear ANY armor with encumbrance. (Eventually, armor will become obsolete while non-encumbering items that heavily protect you will become available.) In fights on the first round, either bless your fighters if your enemies are in immediate range or haste your spellcasters if you are far away. Haste your fighters if you blessed them first, or use your spellcasters' increased action points to both bless and haste your warriors before they enter melee. If the enemies are refusing to die or can actually hit your warriors, then have your spellcasters cast Wound. Field spells do absolute wonders on 2x1, 1x2 or 2x2 monsters and monsters who have to take their time getting to you. And finally, monsters that are vulnerable to magic can have Sleep Cloud cast on them, which basically guarantees that all melee attacks will hit and deal well over double their normal maxima. (Be careful- Sleep Cloud does not work on Stone, Slime or Undead monsters!) [ Saturday, February 19, 2005 20:39: Message edited by: Solomon Strokes ] -------------------- * Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5520
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written Sunday, February 20 2005 00:48
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Save and Restore and long wait and rest and camp . . . shamelessly . . . steal whenever possible . . . pick up and equip yourself with whatever you can grab. . . Glad that there is someone else who likes to keep the same party structure as I do. Just one difference I put Priest on the 6th because a priest tend to get heavier armour and more skill points to spare on other fist-fight related skills. I would not be an expert in all these and had the same problem with you. Not sure how I got through but I remember shamlessly saving/restoring . . . and waiting for luck to come around. . . Really tedious and frustrating at the very beginning but that is part of the fun, I think . . . the Challenge part. . . which gets depreciated when you use the Editor almighty. Oh! for the sheer joy when you first realise that your fighters knock some serious blow on those bullying bandits and OOOH! for the ecstasy when you hear the screams from those poisoning goblin fighters at almost every blow. I generally agree with all others who advise on blessed fighters. Well, I did not know, but come to think of it, in the end I gave up using attack spells because they were too taxing on what little SP my spell casters had. Good planned character development, as important as it is, I think, helps more after the infant period. One down turn in my case. . .after the initial stage my spell casters and thief did not seem to grow as fast or as much as the fighters, which meant I could not develop my party to do any serious adventure that my fighters were willing to do. . . another delicious challenge. . . but alas, I confess that I had succumbed to the seduction of the Editor almighty at this point. Now they are too powerful that I left them in a quarantine area and never allowed them to go out on any other adventure . . . I now regard them as a bigger threat to the BoE than the plague in that valley. [ Sunday, February 20, 2005 01:00: Message edited by: whitenightever ] Posts: 53 | Registered: Saturday, February 19 2005 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 4784
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written Sunday, February 20 2005 05:45
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quote:You're my hero TM. :cool: This is usually one thing that would be fiddled with by me in the beginning but it's not the default. That's why I said after the first level is gained to find a trainer and bring it up. So that just incase they missed it in making their party they took care of it first thing. But of course I'm sure you never, ever, started a party with a PC that had less then 4 strength did you? *stares at TM with awe* -------------------- Forever Always on Past the End TrueSite for Blades - Blades Walkthroughs Pixle Profusion - BoE Graphics Archive Posts: 563 | Registered: Tuesday, July 27 2004 07:00 |
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Shake Before Using
Member # 75
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written Sunday, February 20 2005 06:23
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I'd recommend an all-spellcaster party, but it can be frustrating until you're level 3 or so and you can go into a fight without saving beforehand. Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Sunday, February 20 2005 15:03
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quote:Why would you ever want to do a thing like that? -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Master
Member # 4614
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written Sunday, February 20 2005 17:25
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To save time, and to have the satisfaction of going through a scenario without saving. Not that you'd make it, though. -------------------- -ben4808 Posts: 3360 | Registered: Friday, June 25 2004 07:00 |
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Shake Before Using
Member # 75
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written Monday, February 21 2005 08:08
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Admittedly, Thuryl, I know both of us save compulsively. However, some newbies might be put off by the idea of needing to save before every little encounter. :P Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 2626
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written Tuesday, February 22 2005 11:12
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Compulsively? More like Manditory! Truthfully, I think I'd try several types of party combinations in a beginner level to see what works and what doesn't; also, what I'd prefer to play. Different game systems react differently depending on how the creator ranked skills. Giz noted once, and I really agree with this, that bows in these games are sadly under rated. In real life, swords would never get close to an archer, but in these games wound and flame are stronger than an arrow. Sump'n seriously wrong with that, no matter who's casting the spell. I don't remember, for sure, but a famous battle, (Againcourt?), made the English Longbow famous! Again, try different skills and party combos. That's the only way you will ever learn to play to your true satisfaction. (Follow your heart - D'lenn) Posts: 257 | Registered: Wednesday, February 12 2003 08:00 |