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The ins and outs of Teleportation in Blades of Avernum Editor
Poit
Warrior
Member # 5274
 written Friday, September 23 2005 18:36 Profile #14
quote:
You can do it after a cutscene, but only if that cutscene is triggered by the party stepping into a special rectangle. If it's triggered by something else -- like, say, using an item, or activating a terrain script -- then you can't move the party to a new town afterwards. The cutscene itself doesn't matter as far as the move_to_new_town call is concerned. You can put any code you want before move_to_new_town -- it's how the state is triggered that's the important part
That's actually one of the first things I tried but i still couldn't get it to work properly. For instance the party would walk into a room and step on a node. This node would then start the cutscene, a few NPC's would say lines and then begin_talk_mode(); would kick into effect with one specific NPC, starting an indepth conversation. Once you hit "end conversation" then there was the move_to_new_town(); call.

I could think of two possible reasons why this wouldn't work. Firstly its the actual begin_talk_mode(); that causes the problem. Once you have had a dialogue conversation does that mean the node that initiated it is finished and unable to be restarted?

Secondly if the problem wasn't the conversation itself it could be the way I ended it. For instance maybe action = END_TALK; and
state = (one number); nextstate = (identical number); lead to different script results once the conversation is terminated. Is there a right way and a wrong way to end a conversation so that the script progresses?

quote:
You can teleport them onto a space that is surrounded by special rectangles and use force_view_center to keep the party out of sight, though.
That's an intersting suggestion. If it turns out begin_talk_mode(); prevents a move_to_new_town(); call from completing afterward I may redesign my town and use this method. By the way have you used this successfully before in any of your scenarios?

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I assume my reputation for arrogant presumption precedes me
Posts: 107 | Registered: Thursday, December 9 2004 08:00
The ins and outs of Teleportation in Blades of Avernum
Poit
Warrior
Member # 5274
 written Friday, September 23 2005 18:36 Profile #14
quote:
You can do it after a cutscene, but only if that cutscene is triggered by the party stepping into a special rectangle. If it's triggered by something else -- like, say, using an item, or activating a terrain script -- then you can't move the party to a new town afterwards. The cutscene itself doesn't matter as far as the move_to_new_town call is concerned. You can put any code you want before move_to_new_town -- it's how the state is triggered that's the important part
That's actually one of the first things I tried but i still couldn't get it to work properly. For instance the party would walk into a room and step on a node. This node would then start the cutscene, a few NPC's would say lines and then begin_talk_mode(); would kick into effect with one specific NPC, starting an indepth conversation. Once you hit "end conversation" then there was the move_to_new_town(); call.

I could think of two possible reasons why this wouldn't work. Firstly its the actual begin_talk_mode(); that causes the problem. Once you have had a dialogue conversation does that mean the node that initiated it is finished and unable to be restarted?

Secondly if the problem wasn't the conversation itself it could be the way I ended it. For instance maybe action = END_TALK; and
state = (one number); nextstate = (identical number); lead to different script results once the conversation is terminated. Is there a right way and a wrong way to end a conversation so that the script progresses?

quote:
You can teleport them onto a space that is surrounded by special rectangles and use force_view_center to keep the party out of sight, though.
That's an intersting suggestion. If it turns out begin_talk_mode(); prevents a move_to_new_town(); call from completing afterward I may redesign my town and use this method. By the way have you used this successfully before in any of your scenarios?

--------------------
I assume my reputation for arrogant presumption precedes me
Posts: 107 | Registered: Thursday, December 9 2004 08:00
The ins and outs of Teleportation in Blades of Avernum Editor
Poit
Warrior
Member # 5274
 written Friday, September 23 2005 04:46 Profile #3
Well that's just too bad. I think I'll have to find a cunning method to trigger teleportation without the player having to directly intervent and step on a node. Mad Ambition and Bahssikava seem to the most likely scenarios that would involve some variant on the player controlled method (still haven't played Bahs) so I might just have a poke through their scripts.

[ Friday, September 23, 2005 04:48: Message edited by: Poit ]

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I assume my reputation for arrogant presumption precedes me
Posts: 107 | Registered: Thursday, December 9 2004 08:00
The ins and outs of Teleportation in Blades of Avernum
Poit
Warrior
Member # 5274
 written Friday, September 23 2005 04:46 Profile #3
Well that's just too bad. I think I'll have to find a cunning method to trigger teleportation without the player having to directly intervent and step on a node. Mad Ambition and Bahssikava seem to the most likely scenarios that would involve some variant on the player controlled method (still haven't played Bahs) so I might just have a poke through their scripts.

[ Friday, September 23, 2005 04:48: Message edited by: Poit ]

--------------------
I assume my reputation for arrogant presumption precedes me
Posts: 107 | Registered: Thursday, December 9 2004 08:00
The ins and outs of Teleportation in Blades of Avernum Editor
Poit
Warrior
Member # 5274
 written Friday, September 23 2005 00:28 Profile #0
Hi,

Lately i've been having some problems with the move_to_new_town call. When I use it as part of a node like example A below it works perfectly fine as it is intended to. But when I try to trigger a teleport by inserting the call inside a cutscene or right after a conversation with a character, for instance begin_talk_mode(); then move_to_new_town(); it doesn't function at all.

My question is whether it is possible to trigger a move_to_new_town call without having the player step on a specific node. I've been bamboozled by this for a long time as I have two or three instances in my scenario where a flashback requires a shift in town scenery, at the moment I've finished the cutscenes but need to insert them so the narritive flows nicely. Any help would be appreciated.

Example 1 (-normal functioning move_to_new_town call)

beginstate 10;

reset_dialog();
add_dialog_str(0,"The portal to your next assignment is shimmering with magical force. Perhaps it would be a good idea to enter before it drains its power source.",0);
add_dialog_choice(0,"Enter.");
add_dialog_choice(1,"Stay here.");
choice = run_dialog(1);
if (choice == 1) {
play_sound(10);
block_entry(1);
move_to_new_town (4,10,4);
}
if (choice == 2) {
end();
block_entry(1);
}

break;

Example 2 -(Completely screwed up, oh my god what have I done wrong move_to_new_town call)

text_bubble_on_char(42,"");
text_bubble_on_char(44,"Rutland don't,");
force_instant_terrain_redraw();
pause(20);

text_bubble_on_char(44,"");
text_bubble_on_char(44,"It's not worth it");
force_instant_terrain_redraw();
pause(20);

text_bubble_on_char(44,"");
text_bubble_on_char(44,"I submit to your judgement my liege.");
force_instant_terrain_redraw();
pause(20);

set_total_visibility(0);

move_to_new_town (4,10,4);

set_flag(13,0,1);

}

break;

--------------------
I assume my reputation for arrogant presumption precedes me
Posts: 107 | Registered: Thursday, December 9 2004 08:00
The ins and outs of Teleportation in Blades of Avernum
Poit
Warrior
Member # 5274
 written Friday, September 23 2005 00:28 Profile #0
Hi,

Lately i've been having some problems with the move_to_new_town call. When I use it as part of a node like example A below it works perfectly fine as it is intended to. But when I try to trigger a teleport by inserting the call inside a cutscene or right after a conversation with a character, for instance begin_talk_mode(); then move_to_new_town(); it doesn't function at all.

My question is whether it is possible to trigger a move_to_new_town call without having the player step on a specific node. I've been bamboozled by this for a long time as I have two or three instances in my scenario where a flashback requires a shift in town scenery, at the moment I've finished the cutscenes but need to insert them so the narritive flows nicely. Any help would be appreciated.

Example 1 (-normal functioning move_to_new_town call)

beginstate 10;

reset_dialog();
add_dialog_str(0,"The portal to your next assignment is shimmering with magical force. Perhaps it would be a good idea to enter before it drains its power source.",0);
add_dialog_choice(0,"Enter.");
add_dialog_choice(1,"Stay here.");
choice = run_dialog(1);
if (choice == 1) {
play_sound(10);
block_entry(1);
move_to_new_town (4,10,4);
}
if (choice == 2) {
end();
block_entry(1);
}

break;

Example 2 -(Completely screwed up, oh my god what have I done wrong move_to_new_town call)

text_bubble_on_char(42,"");
text_bubble_on_char(44,"Rutland don't,");
force_instant_terrain_redraw();
pause(20);

text_bubble_on_char(44,"");
text_bubble_on_char(44,"It's not worth it");
force_instant_terrain_redraw();
pause(20);

text_bubble_on_char(44,"");
text_bubble_on_char(44,"I submit to your judgement my liege.");
force_instant_terrain_redraw();
pause(20);

set_total_visibility(0);

move_to_new_town (4,10,4);

set_flag(13,0,1);

}

break;

--------------------
I assume my reputation for arrogant presumption precedes me
Posts: 107 | Registered: Thursday, December 9 2004 08:00
bug? typo?....heck I don't know what this is... in Blades of Avernum Editor
Poit
Warrior
Member # 5274
 written Friday, September 23 2005 00:04 Profile #4
[QUOTE]It could be like ZKR, only almost seven times as long![ QUOTE]

Hahahaha

No.

I'm going to take a step back and wait while you back the train out of crazytown.

Kelandon you deserve to be shot in the face for the mere mention of the possibility of a ZKH remake even as part of a joke.
Es ist verboten!

[ Friday, September 23, 2005 00:15: Message edited by: Poit ]

--------------------
I assume my reputation for arrogant presumption precedes me
Posts: 107 | Registered: Thursday, December 9 2004 08:00
bug? typo?....heck I don't know what this is... in Blades of Avernum
Poit
Warrior
Member # 5274
 written Friday, September 23 2005 00:04 Profile #4
[QUOTE]It could be like ZKR, only almost seven times as long![ QUOTE]

Hahahaha

No.

I'm going to take a step back and wait while you back the train out of crazytown.

Kelandon you deserve to be shot in the face for the mere mention of the possibility of a ZKH remake even as part of a joke.
Es ist verboten!

[ Friday, September 23, 2005 00:15: Message edited by: Poit ]

--------------------
I assume my reputation for arrogant presumption precedes me
Posts: 107 | Registered: Thursday, December 9 2004 08:00
Cloak of Invisiblity in Blades of Avernum Editor
Poit
Warrior
Member # 5274
 written Saturday, September 17 2005 04:32 Profile #3
Wow that's great, I'm glad somebody managed to do it. I'll have a fool round later and see if i can come up with something similar.

You should post that on the script codex or something, see if anyones interested.

--------------------
I assume my reputation for arrogant presumption precedes me
Posts: 107 | Registered: Thursday, December 9 2004 08:00
Cloak of Invisiblity in Blades of Avernum
Poit
Warrior
Member # 5274
 written Saturday, September 17 2005 04:32 Profile #3
Wow that's great, I'm glad somebody managed to do it. I'll have a fool round later and see if i can come up with something similar.

You should post that on the script codex or something, see if anyones interested.

--------------------
I assume my reputation for arrogant presumption precedes me
Posts: 107 | Registered: Thursday, December 9 2004 08:00
Blowing the lid off the Canopy in Blades of Avernum
Poit
Warrior
Member # 5274
 written Saturday, September 17 2005 04:26 Profile #9
quote:
A point I've made often, and that TM seems to mostly disagree with, is that a designer should decide if the player's character belongs to him or the player and establish it clearly and early.
Likewise. For me it comes back to the idea of ownership, as a player to become interested in the story you need some kind of personal stake in the character, it doesn't have to be complete ownership, in fact you don't even need real control at all, just as long as it fools you into thinking you have some.

Mad Ambition was a great improvement in that regard, that fact I didn't find my characters spouting kindergaten interpretations of existentialist philosophy ever five seconds gives it bonus points in my book. I'll stop bagging TM now, I just wish he wasn't banned so I could watch him fight back.

quote:
PS Poit, you have so gotta play some Alcritas scenarios.
Yeah so far I've heard nothing but good things about him. I was going to checkout his BOE work but I thought I might as well get a scenario of my own done first, just in case his stuff is so good it shatters my confidence. :P

[ Saturday, September 17, 2005 04:34: Message edited by: Poit ]

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I assume my reputation for arrogant presumption precedes me
Posts: 107 | Registered: Thursday, December 9 2004 08:00
Blowing the lid off the Canopy in Blades of Avernum
Poit
Warrior
Member # 5274
 written Saturday, September 17 2005 01:59 Profile #6
quote:
In my opinion, A Perfect Forest is the best BoA scenario at the moment. At one point, when the city you're in is attacked, you have to escape, and if there were loose ends or unfinished quests or whatever back where you were before, you have to drop them. There's no warning. You might dislike this, I think it really adds something to the moment. You're not up against nice, safe bad guys who won't ever inconvenience you. Bad stuff can happen to you. YOU are in danger.
Seconded. Maybe it could have used a little more polish but APF is excellent in providing a fluid, rolling plot even if you disagree with the philosophy behind it. For whatever reason I also liked the way it dealt with its characters, in terms of introducing a series of well thought out NPCs with interesting back stories and then killing them off like flies. I found that a different approach.

In regards to Canopy the technical mastery was interesting for a while but the fact that as a player you felt insulted by the purile crap TM forced your characters to spout against their will, well, that detracted from the overall experience.

[ Saturday, September 17, 2005 02:00: Message edited by: Poit ]

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I assume my reputation for arrogant presumption precedes me
Posts: 107 | Registered: Thursday, December 9 2004 08:00
Cloak of Invisiblity in Blades of Avernum Editor
Poit
Warrior
Member # 5274
 written Thursday, September 15 2005 01:13 Profile #0
Hey I was just wondering about the possiblity of imbuing an item with either a script or function that would give the effect of invisibility for a player.

I've considered trying to toy with the set_town_hostile calls so that when the cloak or charm is equipped all monsters would become neutral. This is all just theory at the moment but I'm wondering if anyone else has either thought of a similar idea or achieved this effect.

-cheers

--------------------
I assume my reputation for arrogant presumption precedes me
Posts: 107 | Registered: Thursday, December 9 2004 08:00
Cloak of Invisiblity in Blades of Avernum
Poit
Warrior
Member # 5274
 written Thursday, September 15 2005 01:13 Profile #0
Hey I was just wondering about the possiblity of imbuing an item with either a script or function that would give the effect of invisibility for a player.

I've considered trying to toy with the set_town_hostile calls so that when the cloak or charm is equipped all monsters would become neutral. This is all just theory at the moment but I'm wondering if anyone else has either thought of a similar idea or achieved this effect.

-cheers

--------------------
I assume my reputation for arrogant presumption precedes me
Posts: 107 | Registered: Thursday, December 9 2004 08:00
Slot trouble in Blades of Avernum Editor
Poit
Warrior
Member # 5274
 written Wednesday, September 14 2005 16:14 Profile #7
Its an interesting solution but i think I'm probably going to take the easier route and just write one character out of the story. (Maybe not that much easier)

--------------------
I assume my reputation for arrogant presumption precedes me
Posts: 107 | Registered: Thursday, December 9 2004 08:00
Slot trouble in Blades of Avernum
Poit
Warrior
Member # 5274
 written Wednesday, September 14 2005 16:14 Profile #7
Its an interesting solution but i think I'm probably going to take the easier route and just write one character out of the story. (Maybe not that much easier)

--------------------
I assume my reputation for arrogant presumption precedes me
Posts: 107 | Registered: Thursday, December 9 2004 08:00
Thralni and the orb in Blades of Avernum Editor
Poit
Warrior
Member # 5274
 written Wednesday, September 14 2005 16:10 Profile #28
quote:
The brooches were communication devices. I don't think it's ever made clear whether they were used for communicating with each other, with the surface, or both, but given that they're capable of teleporting someone to the surface, they're probably capable of communicating with it too
I'd forgoten all about them, I really should replay it again sometime. Anyway I'm not sure there was much communication with the surface. I always envisaged the expedition as a Heart of Darkness style nightmare with a bunch of what presumably were the Empires finest warriors and mages trapped in a living hell, cut off, isolated, with equpiment failing that sort of thing.

I took the purpose of the expedition to reflect not just the whole man vs nature thing but also the contrast in the war between Avernum and the Empire later, with ingenuity trumping brute strength.

Still the cave frescoes of earlier humans are pretty interesting.

[ Wednesday, September 14, 2005 21:51: Message edited by: Poit ]

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I assume my reputation for arrogant presumption precedes me
Posts: 107 | Registered: Thursday, December 9 2004 08:00
Thralni and the orb in Blades of Avernum
Poit
Warrior
Member # 5274
 written Wednesday, September 14 2005 16:10 Profile #28
quote:
The brooches were communication devices. I don't think it's ever made clear whether they were used for communicating with each other, with the surface, or both, but given that they're capable of teleporting someone to the surface, they're probably capable of communicating with it too
I'd forgoten all about them, I really should replay it again sometime. Anyway I'm not sure there was much communication with the surface. I always envisaged the expedition as a Heart of Darkness style nightmare with a bunch of what presumably were the Empires finest warriors and mages trapped in a living hell, cut off, isolated, with equpiment failing that sort of thing.

I took the purpose of the expedition to reflect not just the whole man vs nature thing but also the contrast in the war between Avernum and the Empire later, with ingenuity trumping brute strength.

Still the cave frescoes of earlier humans are pretty interesting.

[ Wednesday, September 14, 2005 21:51: Message edited by: Poit ]

--------------------
I assume my reputation for arrogant presumption precedes me
Posts: 107 | Registered: Thursday, December 9 2004 08:00
Thralni and the orb in Blades of Avernum Editor
Poit
Warrior
Member # 5274
 written Wednesday, September 14 2005 03:23 Profile #21
quote:
Who reported back then? For some reason, I took "to a man and a woman" to mean that one man and one woman, ie. two explorers survived; everyone else was killed
That was my initial reaction, either way its seems like an unusual choice of wording.

I'd be happy to write a quick update on Thranli when I get the time, if anyone can think of anything else important that should be included just post here.

--------------------
I assume my reputation for arrogant presumption precedes me
Posts: 107 | Registered: Thursday, December 9 2004 08:00
Thralni and the orb in Blades of Avernum
Poit
Warrior
Member # 5274
 written Wednesday, September 14 2005 03:23 Profile #21
quote:
Who reported back then? For some reason, I took "to a man and a woman" to mean that one man and one woman, ie. two explorers survived; everyone else was killed
That was my initial reaction, either way its seems like an unusual choice of wording.

I'd be happy to write a quick update on Thranli when I get the time, if anyone can think of anything else important that should be included just post here.

--------------------
I assume my reputation for arrogant presumption precedes me
Posts: 107 | Registered: Thursday, December 9 2004 08:00
Thralni and the orb in Blades of Avernum Editor
Poit
Warrior
Member # 5274
 written Wednesday, September 14 2005 00:51 Profile #18
Thanks Kelandon, I completly forgot about the notes on your website. By the way it mentions the date of the first visitaton as fifty years prior to the events of Avernum 1 putting it at around the year 767, although there are mentions of frescos and cave paintings on the walls of the Crypt of Drath possibly pushing the first date of human settlement back sometime.

Apart from Demonslayer, the Orb, Smite, Scrioth and Korthax were there any other significant items left behind by the explorers?

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I assume my reputation for arrogant presumption precedes me
Posts: 107 | Registered: Thursday, December 9 2004 08:00
Thralni and the orb in Blades of Avernum
Poit
Warrior
Member # 5274
 written Wednesday, September 14 2005 00:51 Profile #18
Thanks Kelandon, I completly forgot about the notes on your website. By the way it mentions the date of the first visitaton as fifty years prior to the events of Avernum 1 putting it at around the year 767, although there are mentions of frescos and cave paintings on the walls of the Crypt of Drath possibly pushing the first date of human settlement back sometime.

Apart from Demonslayer, the Orb, Smite, Scrioth and Korthax were there any other significant items left behind by the explorers?

--------------------
I assume my reputation for arrogant presumption precedes me
Posts: 107 | Registered: Thursday, December 9 2004 08:00
Thralni and the orb in Blades of Avernum Editor
Poit
Warrior
Member # 5274
 written Tuesday, September 13 2005 19:50 Profile #15
That's quite right, Julio in Almaria gives you a quest to find the location. From memory the peninsula was either just above or below Lost Bahsikava near the centre of Avernums cave system. Knowing where they started can give us an idea of how the expedition split off into several directions, Thranli went south, some went north to Motrax and so on.

[ Wednesday, September 14, 2005 00:38: Message edited by: Poit ]

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I assume my reputation for arrogant presumption precedes me
Posts: 107 | Registered: Thursday, December 9 2004 08:00
Thralni and the orb in Blades of Avernum
Poit
Warrior
Member # 5274
 written Tuesday, September 13 2005 19:50 Profile #15
That's quite right, Julio in Almaria gives you a quest to find the location. From memory the peninsula was either just above or below Lost Bahsikava near the centre of Avernums cave system. Knowing where they started can give us an idea of how the expedition split off into several directions, Thranli went south, some went north to Motrax and so on.

[ Wednesday, September 14, 2005 00:38: Message edited by: Poit ]

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I assume my reputation for arrogant presumption precedes me
Posts: 107 | Registered: Thursday, December 9 2004 08:00
Thralni and the orb in Blades of Avernum Editor
Poit
Warrior
Member # 5274
 written Tuesday, September 13 2005 02:20 Profile #13
Thanks for that,

I don't know why but I took "to a man and a woman" literally. Still its fertile ground for a (or another) scenario to be made.

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I assume my reputation for arrogant presumption precedes me
Posts: 107 | Registered: Thursday, December 9 2004 08:00

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