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Calls that we wish existed in Blades of Avernum
Vent
Warrior
Member # 4186
 written Tuesday, April 20 2004 07:39 Profile #52
quote:
Originally written by Boots:

Crazy. VoDT is probably the more reliable test, but I've made a sample scenario with two towns, and I can't combine wands between them. I can however combine a wand with another that I pick up after leaving and re-entering the same town in which I acquired the first. Meanwhile, the inability to combine across scenarios seems pretty hard and fast. That all seems eccentric enough to need repairing in one direction or another.
When reading the editor doc I felt upon this :

quote:
When a party leaves a scenario,...In addition, items that have special classes will have those classes be set to 0 .
When items with charges are transferred from another scenario, they will not combine properly with items from the new scenario (so apples from Scenario 1 will not combine with apples from Scenario 2). The exception to this is all of the constant item types listed at the beginning of the chapter. These will always combine properly.
And for these constant item types :
quote:

Food – Items 4 to 12 and 397 to 400.
Javelins, Arrows, Bolts - Items 84 to 88 and 99 to 108.
Alchemy Ingredients, Basic Potions, Scrolls - Items 214 to 263.
All the Tools - Items 171 to 178.
Crystals and Dust - Items 326 to 329 and 435 to 439.
So well, a documented bug is just a feature and there's perhaps no bug even if it's a bit complicate.
Posts: 175 | Registered: Friday, April 2 2004 08:00
Really Minor Bugs in Blades of Avernum
Vent
Warrior
Member # 4186
 written Tuesday, April 20 2004 07:24 Profile #30
About the lockpick bug that break even when you don't have one. Ok when reading the editor documentation I realized that lockpick add skill bonus based on strength so a lockpick +0 still gives this bonus.

That doesn't mean it is required so you can use no lockpick. No bug about that as I suggested but the problem of one breaking even if the party has none.

That said, I'm not sure that it is well managed in order to select the char that will pick the lock and detect if he has enough high skill.

Also, one of my character with high tool skill carry lockpick but most often need none for the door level but still use one and break sometimes a lockpick.

Also I remember that (not 100% sure) :
At least once, this char had +0 lockpick with strength of 8 or better, had 18 tool skills and couldn't open a level 20 door (despite 18+8=26>20). I had to give to this char lockpick+2 (carried by another char to not waste them) in order to open the door.
Posts: 175 | Registered: Friday, April 2 2004 08:00
Calls that we wish existed in Blades of Avernum Editor
Vent
Warrior
Member # 4186
 written Tuesday, April 20 2004 06:45 Profile #51
Not really a call but :

Having dlg files not only for towns but also outdoor. And perhaps even scenario based, well mainly to manage scenario user preferences.

I know you can build sort of dialog with calls but dialog template is cool and powerful anyway.
Posts: 175 | Registered: Friday, April 2 2004 08:00
Calls that we wish existed in Blades of Avernum
Vent
Warrior
Member # 4186
 written Tuesday, April 20 2004 06:45 Profile #51
Not really a call but :

Having dlg files not only for towns but also outdoor. And perhaps even scenario based, well mainly to manage scenario user preferences.

I know you can build sort of dialog with calls but dialog template is cool and powerful anyway.
Posts: 175 | Registered: Friday, April 2 2004 08:00
Text Bubbles and Cutscenes in Blades of Avernum Editor
Vent
Warrior
Member # 4186
 written Tuesday, April 20 2004 06:36 Profile #4
Cool, but a stupid question, can a scenario gives an option to the player for standard bulles (perhaps out of cutscene), stores it somewhere like in a flag done cell and use its value each time a standard bubbles is show? Ha well the answer is probably yes. :)
Posts: 175 | Registered: Friday, April 2 2004 08:00
Text Bubbles and Cutscenes in Blades of Avernum
Vent
Warrior
Member # 4186
 written Tuesday, April 20 2004 06:36 Profile #4
Cool, but a stupid question, can a scenario gives an option to the player for standard bulles (perhaps out of cutscene), stores it somewhere like in a flag done cell and use its value each time a standard bubbles is show? Ha well the answer is probably yes. :)
Posts: 175 | Registered: Friday, April 2 2004 08:00
Calls that we wish existed in Blades of Avernum Editor
Vent
Warrior
Member # 4186
 written Tuesday, April 20 2004 02:44 Profile #50
quote:
Originally written by Octavo:

Just think of the greatness of plot possible if it'd run like FF6, or even FF5 (which used the same 4 for most of the game after the initial meeting-period, save at one point trading one character for his daughter).
I agree that this point of view is much better (easier) to tell a story. But that's not the type of game that are occidental (or PC) RPG like BoA, but more japanese (or console) RPG. I see only one example, Warcraft 3 but it isn't a lot RPG.

Anyway, there's a nice article about this problem, Player vs Party (http://www.avernum.com/blades/workshop/articles/8_pvparty.txt).

It's a way to manage that. For now I skip this approach to focus on NPC use that join or follow the party. In fact 3 to join the party would be enough for me if I can also have one (or more) that follow it. Ha well, I could probably do with 2 only and one following the party but I'll have problem to manage/translate some parts.
Posts: 175 | Registered: Friday, April 2 2004 08:00
Calls that we wish existed in Blades of Avernum
Vent
Warrior
Member # 4186
 written Tuesday, April 20 2004 02:44 Profile #50
quote:
Originally written by Octavo:

Just think of the greatness of plot possible if it'd run like FF6, or even FF5 (which used the same 4 for most of the game after the initial meeting-period, save at one point trading one character for his daughter).
I agree that this point of view is much better (easier) to tell a story. But that's not the type of game that are occidental (or PC) RPG like BoA, but more japanese (or console) RPG. I see only one example, Warcraft 3 but it isn't a lot RPG.

Anyway, there's a nice article about this problem, Player vs Party (http://www.avernum.com/blades/workshop/articles/8_pvparty.txt).

It's a way to manage that. For now I skip this approach to focus on NPC use that join or follow the party. In fact 3 to join the party would be enough for me if I can also have one (or more) that follow it. Ha well, I could probably do with 2 only and one following the party but I'll have problem to manage/translate some parts.
Posts: 175 | Registered: Friday, April 2 2004 08:00
Calls that we wish existed in Blades of Avernum Editor
Vent
Warrior
Member # 4186
 written Tuesday, April 20 2004 02:22 Profile #49
EDIT : I think you thought I wanted add new chars in the party itself not npc joining that party. That wans't my purpose, just the ability to add a bit more NPC in the party but they stay NPC.

Well, a row of 6 is already long and 8 will be even more long. But that would be a design choice. Also to match npc in party with numbers coud be a problem for the player when there are 4 instead of 2. But perhaps some solution not too tough could be applied like mention in the console the npc name for each number shortcut.
END EDIT.

quote:
Originally written by spyderbytes:

...Jeff could (theoretically) change the starting number for NPCs
The starting number doesn't need to change. just the max number.
quote:
Originally written by spyderbytes:

...but it would break all existing (and half-written) scenarios--including Jeff's own scenarios that come with the game. IOW, not at all likely to happen at this point.
I can't say for sure but I don't see why. The game should just manage a max default that will keep compatibility with older scenario. But will allow change that in a scenario through a call.

At least if the starting number doesn't need to change but I don't see why it needs.

[ Tuesday, April 20, 2004 02:57: Message edited by: Vent ]
Posts: 175 | Registered: Friday, April 2 2004 08:00
Calls that we wish existed in Blades of Avernum
Vent
Warrior
Member # 4186
 written Tuesday, April 20 2004 02:22 Profile #49
EDIT : I think you thought I wanted add new chars in the party itself not npc joining that party. That wans't my purpose, just the ability to add a bit more NPC in the party but they stay NPC.

Well, a row of 6 is already long and 8 will be even more long. But that would be a design choice. Also to match npc in party with numbers coud be a problem for the player when there are 4 instead of 2. But perhaps some solution not too tough could be applied like mention in the console the npc name for each number shortcut.
END EDIT.

quote:
Originally written by spyderbytes:

...Jeff could (theoretically) change the starting number for NPCs
The starting number doesn't need to change. just the max number.
quote:
Originally written by spyderbytes:

...but it would break all existing (and half-written) scenarios--including Jeff's own scenarios that come with the game. IOW, not at all likely to happen at this point.
I can't say for sure but I don't see why. The game should just manage a max default that will keep compatibility with older scenario. But will allow change that in a scenario through a call.

At least if the starting number doesn't need to change but I don't see why it needs.

[ Tuesday, April 20, 2004 02:57: Message edited by: Vent ]
Posts: 175 | Registered: Friday, April 2 2004 08:00
Calls that we wish existed in Blades of Avernum Editor
Vent
Warrior
Member # 4186
 written Tuesday, April 20 2004 02:15 Profile #48
quote:
Originally written by Thuryl:

Theoretically, you can use scripts to have as many NPCs as you like follow the party around. But they'll still be AI-controlled, and having too many at once will probably slow down the game pretty badly.
Will they really follow the party when they leave the town?? Then in outdoor will they follow the party and it goes in town? Same question when a telporter is used, or when it's just from an area to another.

[ Tuesday, April 20, 2004 02:24: Message edited by: Vent ]
Posts: 175 | Registered: Friday, April 2 2004 08:00
Calls that we wish existed in Blades of Avernum
Vent
Warrior
Member # 4186
 written Tuesday, April 20 2004 02:15 Profile #48
quote:
Originally written by Thuryl:

Theoretically, you can use scripts to have as many NPCs as you like follow the party around. But they'll still be AI-controlled, and having too many at once will probably slow down the game pretty badly.
Will they really follow the party when they leave the town?? Then in outdoor will they follow the party and it goes in town? Same question when a telporter is used, or when it's just from an area to another.

[ Tuesday, April 20, 2004 02:24: Message edited by: Vent ]
Posts: 175 | Registered: Friday, April 2 2004 08:00
Text Bubbles and Cutscenes in Blades of Avernum Editor
Vent
Warrior
Member # 4186
 written Tuesday, April 20 2004 02:07 Profile #2
In all Jeff scenario bubbles disapear very fast (like after 1s) it's very boring. I have set game speed at slowest but that changed nothing. If authors can avoid that, I strongly suggest they do. Well out of cutscene it's perhaps not possible?

[ Tuesday, April 20, 2004 02:09: Message edited by: Vent ]
Posts: 175 | Registered: Friday, April 2 2004 08:00
Text Bubbles and Cutscenes in Blades of Avernum
Vent
Warrior
Member # 4186
 written Tuesday, April 20 2004 02:07 Profile #2
In all Jeff scenario bubbles disapear very fast (like after 1s) it's very boring. I have set game speed at slowest but that changed nothing. If authors can avoid that, I strongly suggest they do. Well out of cutscene it's perhaps not possible?

[ Tuesday, April 20, 2004 02:09: Message edited by: Vent ]
Posts: 175 | Registered: Friday, April 2 2004 08:00
More than 2 NPC joining the party? in Blades of Avernum Editor
Vent
Warrior
Member # 4186
 written Monday, April 19 2004 12:52 Profile #6
I didn't want to change a lot the current system but at the end I can't say how difficult it is, only the author could.

For now you are limited to only 2 NPC that join the party.

The only interaction I know with npc in BoA is during special dialogs and to cast a friendly spell on them. In this case, you use a numeric key (5 or 6).

Allow to use the numeric keys from 7 to 9 could allow have more than two NPC. If keeping track of the number for each npc is too difficult for so many NPC perhaps limit them to 4 will be ok.

Or perhaps the remider which is written in console each time you cast a spell could also mention npc name for each number.

A last problem could be to keep compatibility for scenario that need to keep a maximum of 2 NPC at same time in the party. For that, have the maximum set to a defaut value of 2. And allow a call in a scenario that wants it to change this maximum up to 4 or 5 or any possible value.

[ Monday, April 19, 2004 12:55: Message edited by: Vent ]
Posts: 175 | Registered: Friday, April 2 2004 08:00
More than 2 NPC joining the party? in Blades of Avernum
Vent
Warrior
Member # 4186
 written Monday, April 19 2004 12:52 Profile #6
I didn't want to change a lot the current system but at the end I can't say how difficult it is, only the author could.

For now you are limited to only 2 NPC that join the party.

The only interaction I know with npc in BoA is during special dialogs and to cast a friendly spell on them. In this case, you use a numeric key (5 or 6).

Allow to use the numeric keys from 7 to 9 could allow have more than two NPC. If keeping track of the number for each npc is too difficult for so many NPC perhaps limit them to 4 will be ok.

Or perhaps the remider which is written in console each time you cast a spell could also mention npc name for each number.

A last problem could be to keep compatibility for scenario that need to keep a maximum of 2 NPC at same time in the party. For that, have the maximum set to a defaut value of 2. And allow a call in a scenario that wants it to change this maximum up to 4 or 5 or any possible value.

[ Monday, April 19, 2004 12:55: Message edited by: Vent ]
Posts: 175 | Registered: Friday, April 2 2004 08:00
How do you make YOUR Scenarios? in Blades of Avernum Editor
Vent
Warrior
Member # 4186
 written Monday, April 19 2004 12:38 Profile #8
I was curious to ask the question as I was starting to try do one too. In fact I had already a global story and some plots details and variations. But Not a fully written story with all details.

I read advices to make something small for the first try so I got only the prologue of this story. For this prologue I have more details written and various draft ideas and possibilities.

I had no idea where to start so I did few tests with the editor, far not enough.

Written with more details the story was too abstract with the game and the editor in mind. So I tried to take a different aproach :

From the story I had, I extracted :
* List of the main NPC. For each I try be more detailed about traits and dependencies with other NPC, more than what is already written.
* List of the main places. A short description for each plus some special use this place has.
* List of events, not a point in the time but an event with a beginning and an end. For each a short description, the "Stuff done flag" for its start and for its end. For few the timer.

In this phase I started a translation in english. :D

In parallel I started different tables of dependencies :

* A table of events dependencies to have a rough global idea of required chaining. This also help me to think more in term of possibilitie than just a written story that tends to linearity. I also try set up the base of start conditions and done conditions.
* Table of links between NPC and events started or done. this includes bits of possible dialogs.

All in all I try to translate and complete the story into these various tables.

In pratice, I have already reach some limits in term of sizes. I think I will have to define different level of events in order to do different tables and keep their size not too big. I'll probably keep the table of links between main NPC and events.

But seriously even if I get fun to do it (that's the more important!), I dunno at all where I go. :P

[ Monday, April 19, 2004 12:41: Message edited by: Vent ]
Posts: 175 | Registered: Friday, April 2 2004 08:00
How do you make YOUR Scenarios? in Blades of Avernum
Vent
Warrior
Member # 4186
 written Monday, April 19 2004 12:38 Profile #8
I was curious to ask the question as I was starting to try do one too. In fact I had already a global story and some plots details and variations. But Not a fully written story with all details.

I read advices to make something small for the first try so I got only the prologue of this story. For this prologue I have more details written and various draft ideas and possibilities.

I had no idea where to start so I did few tests with the editor, far not enough.

Written with more details the story was too abstract with the game and the editor in mind. So I tried to take a different aproach :

From the story I had, I extracted :
* List of the main NPC. For each I try be more detailed about traits and dependencies with other NPC, more than what is already written.
* List of the main places. A short description for each plus some special use this place has.
* List of events, not a point in the time but an event with a beginning and an end. For each a short description, the "Stuff done flag" for its start and for its end. For few the timer.

In this phase I started a translation in english. :D

In parallel I started different tables of dependencies :

* A table of events dependencies to have a rough global idea of required chaining. This also help me to think more in term of possibilitie than just a written story that tends to linearity. I also try set up the base of start conditions and done conditions.
* Table of links between NPC and events started or done. this includes bits of possible dialogs.

All in all I try to translate and complete the story into these various tables.

In pratice, I have already reach some limits in term of sizes. I think I will have to define different level of events in order to do different tables and keep their size not too big. I'll probably keep the table of links between main NPC and events.

But seriously even if I get fun to do it (that's the more important!), I dunno at all where I go. :P

[ Monday, April 19, 2004 12:41: Message edited by: Vent ]
Posts: 175 | Registered: Friday, April 2 2004 08:00
BoA editor 1.0.1 pdf doc up to date? in Blades of Avernum Editor
Vent
Warrior
Member # 4186
 written Sunday, April 18 2004 21:54 Profile #7
Acrobat distiller (or another name like that) doesn't allow edit text in the pdf?

The export to html is an idea, I'm not sure it will look good on any computers.

Perhaps export in rtf will be ok to be read with textedit?
Posts: 175 | Registered: Friday, April 2 2004 08:00
BoA editor 1.0.1 pdf doc up to date? in Blades of Avernum
Vent
Warrior
Member # 4186
 written Sunday, April 18 2004 21:54 Profile #7
Acrobat distiller (or another name like that) doesn't allow edit text in the pdf?

The export to html is an idea, I'm not sure it will look good on any computers.

Perhaps export in rtf will be ok to be read with textedit?
Posts: 175 | Registered: Friday, April 2 2004 08:00
Calls that we wish existed in Blades of Avernum Editor
Vent
Warrior
Member # 4186
 written Sunday, April 18 2004 14:33 Profile #43
add_char_to_party that works for more than 2 npc. I think numbers 5 to 9 and 0 are available so up to 5 or 6 npc.

And in order to keep compatibility :
set_max_char_in_party
A global call that set max number of npc in party the default is 2.
This call won't remove npc already in party but will not allow to add more npc than the max set after this call.
Posts: 175 | Registered: Friday, April 2 2004 08:00
Calls that we wish existed in Blades of Avernum
Vent
Warrior
Member # 4186
 written Sunday, April 18 2004 14:33 Profile #43
add_char_to_party that works for more than 2 npc. I think numbers 5 to 9 and 0 are available so up to 5 or 6 npc.

And in order to keep compatibility :
set_max_char_in_party
A global call that set max number of npc in party the default is 2.
This call won't remove npc already in party but will not allow to add more npc than the max set after this call.
Posts: 175 | Registered: Friday, April 2 2004 08:00
BoA editor 1.0.1 pdf doc up to date? in Blades of Avernum Editor
Vent
Warrior
Member # 4186
 written Sunday, April 18 2004 14:26 Profile #4
spyderbytes I sign the flame petition requiring the up to date pdf. Could you take the job to take the petition to the competent authorities? :D
Posts: 175 | Registered: Friday, April 2 2004 08:00
BoA editor 1.0.1 pdf doc up to date? in Blades of Avernum
Vent
Warrior
Member # 4186
 written Sunday, April 18 2004 14:26 Profile #4
spyderbytes I sign the flame petition requiring the up to date pdf. Could you take the job to take the petition to the competent authorities? :D
Posts: 175 | Registered: Friday, April 2 2004 08:00
More than 2 NPC joining the party? in Blades of Avernum Editor
Vent
Warrior
Member # 4186
 written Sunday, April 18 2004 14:22 Profile #4
quote:
Originally written by Newtfeet:

He's saying that he's thinking about adding an item that calls a script note that gives the player options relating to NPCs that have joined the party. Asking questions, asking the NPC to leave, etc.

I think it would be better to use a special scenario ability.
Great, this cannot be droped by the player so that will be possible?
Posts: 175 | Registered: Friday, April 2 2004 08:00

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