Calls that we wish existed
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| Author | Topic: Calls that we wish existed |
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Warrior
Member # 4186
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written Tuesday, April 20 2004 02:44
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quote:I agree that this point of view is much better (easier) to tell a story. But that's not the type of game that are occidental (or PC) RPG like BoA, but more japanese (or console) RPG. I see only one example, Warcraft 3 but it isn't a lot RPG. Anyway, there's a nice article about this problem, Player vs Party (http://www.avernum.com/blades/workshop/articles/8_pvparty.txt). It's a way to manage that. For now I skip this approach to focus on NPC use that join or follow the party. In fact 3 to join the party would be enough for me if I can also have one (or more) that follow it. Ha well, I could probably do with 2 only and one following the party but I'll have problem to manage/translate some parts. Posts: 175 | Registered: Friday, April 2 2004 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 4186
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written Tuesday, April 20 2004 06:45
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Not really a call but : Having dlg files not only for towns but also outdoor. And perhaps even scenario based, well mainly to manage scenario user preferences. I know you can build sort of dialog with calls but dialog template is cool and powerful anyway. Posts: 175 | Registered: Friday, April 2 2004 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 4186
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written Tuesday, April 20 2004 07:39
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quote:When reading the editor doc I felt upon this : quote:And for these constant item types : quote:So well, a documented bug is just a feature and there's perhaps no bug even if it's a bit complicate. Posts: 175 | Registered: Friday, April 2 2004 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 455
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written Tuesday, April 20 2004 08:51
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The point is that an item given it_variety = 9 should NEVER combine with anything of the same type, at least according to the Editor docs, p. 61, so it_variety = 9 does not seem to work as advertised. [ Tuesday, April 20, 2004 08:52: Message edited by: Boots ] -------------------- Forgive them, for they are young and rich and white. Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
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written Tuesday, April 20 2004 11:16
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I'll try to explain it, Vent. For various reasons, designers often need to "loop" through the party, doing something to/for each member of the group. The only way this is possible is because we're guaranteed, by Jeff's implementation, that the party will always be characters 0 through 5. Character 0 is the first party member, 1 is the second, 2 is the third, 3 is the fourth. If you add an NPC to the party, even though that NPC already has his own char number, you can ALSO refer to that char as Character 4. If you add a second, it's Character 5. Now, say I've designed a town and the very first NPC I placed in it was a giant spider. The moment I place it, the editor assigns it character number 6. I can refer to that spider in all sorts of calls simply by specifying character 6. Now, let's say Jeff decides you're right and he needs to add capability for another NPC to join the party. The party is currently referred to by numbers 0 through 5, so this new one will obviously need to be referred to by 6 (to keep from breaking the code people are alredy using to loop through all the party members in a while loop). But then, my giant spider in my first town would be treated as a party member by those loops, because he's character 6. There are ways to get around it, of course; but none that wouldn't require everyone to go back and change code to keep it working the way it's supposed to. -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 4186
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written Tuesday, April 20 2004 13:39
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Ok you was refering to NPC number NOT in party I hadn't saw this point sorry. That compatibility can't be keep, I disagree (ok I could be wrong, only the author can really say). Ok, changing this value through a call could break all scripts in the scenario. Plus this has an influence on the editor. I see a solution anyway : 1 - There is a default value of 2 for the max number of chars. This will preserve compatibility for older scenario and scenario that just keep the default. 2 - When you create a new scenario you have a new option to change the max number of npc that could join the party. The editor could know this value and compute npc numbers by using this value. The engine could also know this value and will use the default if none is set. 3 - There will be scenario file with this value set and other without this value set (at least older scenario. The editor itself could fix that by detecting this in a scenario it open. This will allow to fix users scenario and it could be used to fix bundled scenario. Another possibility is that the engine will be able to load a scenario file with this value set and scenario file without this value set then default value 2 is used. 4 - Finally when you cast, change the logging in order to remember to the player each couple key number/NPC name in the party. Ok this means more change than I first thought. But everything seems doable. Yes, seems. :) There's the creation dialog, check through engine and editor if this constant is hard coded (6 as first free npc number). Then change to use a value set in a variable. Then manage loading a scenario with this additional setting and keep ability to load scenario without it. Finally changing a logging. Really too bad. I strongly think that it's a real potential to be able to add more than 2 npc in the party. For what I had in mind, perhaps "follow" will allow me do it anyway. Posts: 175 | Registered: Friday, April 2 2004 08:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Tuesday, April 20 2004 13:41
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I s'pose Jeff could just make the additional joining NPCs numbered above the numbers that are available now (so the third one would be 120), but there's no way in hell he will do this. I also think there are other things that are more desirable (although I admit that I kind of wish that we had the ability to add genuine PCs as was done in A1-3). -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
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written Thursday, April 22 2004 19:55
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I doubt there's the slightest chance of actualy getting this one, but you never know unless you ask. :) I'd like a pair of calls to add/remove our own custom icon as a character status (like drunk, invulnerable, etc., now). I've got a custom status that's vitally important to my scenario, a custom item that grants it, and have gone to tons of trouble to script its effect. And I don't even have a convenient way to let the player know when it's in effect and when it wears off. Right now, I'm using a sledgehammer to get the job done (a pair of message_dialog()s for start and end); but a simple status icon would be so much nicer. :) -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 3040
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written Friday, April 23 2004 15:21
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Can you call a scenario state that places little animations on the character every turn that the custom status is in effect? Meaning, can you access town animations through a scenario state? If you set it to not have any sound play, it might work. If the status needs to be in effect for a long period of time, this might not be such a good idea. -------------------- 5.0.1.0.0.0.0.1.0... Posts: 508 | Registered: Thursday, May 29 2003 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4154
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written Saturday, April 24 2004 11:50
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You would have to take into account the fact that in the outdoors, animations don't work. Other than that, I think what you're saying is possible. About the status icons and alerting the player about when it runs out, you can use print_str() to say that it wore off. [ Saturday, April 24, 2004 11:53: Message edited by: Eldiran ] -------------------- You're a moron if you think I'm not. Posts: 213 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
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written Saturday, April 24 2004 12:29
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Thanks, y'all. Some good ideas. :) Despite it's importance (or actually, because of it--it would become overpowering), the party can only use this item 3 times, and only in a particular city. So the outdoors bit is not a problem. -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 1016
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written Saturday, April 24 2004 12:36
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I would like to see some way of checking to see which key on the keyboard a player pressess. Or even better would be the ability to control NPCs in the party. Posts: 141 | Registered: Saturday, April 20 2002 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
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written Sunday, April 25 2004 15:33
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As long as we're dreaming here... :) I'd like to have a call that re-inits all floors/terrains to their default state (as set in the editor). I just made a town with a dam, and it's MUCH different depending on whether the floodgates are opened or closed (about 3 dozen squares change--coulda been much worse, I guess, if I hadn't planned so carefully ;) ). Going through all those squares and saying what they change to when the puzzle is solved was a pain, but understandably necessary. Going BACK through and saying, essentially, "now put it all back like it was when the party entered", in case they decide to undo what they did, seemed like more work than was really required. :) -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 3040
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written Sunday, April 25 2004 17:54
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Would variable town entry work? The problem would be map resetting, but that's not too big a deal. -------------------- 5.0.1.0.0.0.0.1.0... Posts: 508 | Registered: Thursday, May 29 2003 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 720
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written Sunday, April 25 2004 18:12
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quote:You could trying making some custom terrains/floors which you can just flip en masse when you need to. i dunno, would that work? -------------------- -Daravon Posts: 104 | Registered: Friday, March 8 2002 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
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written Sunday, April 25 2004 18:13
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I thought about that, but decided it would actually be more work to track who was dead/alive and what the party had already done in town (so the towns matched except one flooded and one dry) than swapping out some 3 dozen floors. :) EDIT: Yes, Daravon, that would work. In this case, however, I would have ended up with almost as many custom floors (considering the edges of the water change significantly) as just a string of set_floor() calls. :) [ Sunday, April 25, 2004 18:16: Message edited by: spyderbytes ] -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 3040
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written Sunday, April 25 2004 18:40
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quote:That wouldn't be a problem: just give each NPC with the basicnpc script the same flags in both the towns. I just realized, however, that if the player drops or gets any items in the original town, that wouldn't be reflected in the changed one. Oh well. -------------------- 5.0.1.0.0.0.0.1.0... Posts: 508 | Registered: Thursday, May 29 2003 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 720
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written Sunday, April 25 2004 18:44
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Let's just say that their stash that they left there was destroyed in the flood. [ Sunday, April 25, 2004 18:56: Message edited by: Daravon ] -------------------- -Daravon Posts: 104 | Registered: Friday, March 8 2002 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
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written Tuesday, April 27 2004 14:52
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This isn't a call, but this seemed the best place to add it. :) When editing a NPC in the Editor, I'd like the dialog to have "next/previous" buttons, to cycle through all the placed characters in town. I made a change that required a new memory cell to be correctly set for all the inhabitants of a particular (populous) town. Scrolling through the town and clicking each inhabitant, then "edit this character" is a hassle, when all of them have to be changed. -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 4231
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written Tuesday, April 27 2004 18:34
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Not a request, but a workaround to suggest to an above post. For showing custom statuses you can always use Enlightened as long as you don't mind it having that icon. Possibly keep giving enlightened at 1/turn until your effect wears off, then stop. -------------------- Lifetime Spiderweb Gamer and Fan of Classic Style Graphics Posts: 42 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
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written Wednesday, April 28 2004 01:01
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Nutter thing that isn't a call, but something I really, really, really wish Jeff would change. :) Please, please, PLEASE, make it so that special encounters load every time the party enters a town, instead of only the very first time. It's getting to be a pain to go back to a really old save just because there's a spot that needs a special encounter I didn't think of when I was first designing the town. I'd like to extend that to placing items, but I have an idea there's a more valid reason for only doing that the very first time the town is entered. So I'll compromise and not bellyache too much about the items if I can have special encounters that load each time. :D EDIT: DOH! I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but one can save SOME trouble, at least, by putting a "dummy" terrain script somewhere outside the town that, when stepped into, calls set_town_status(some_town, 0). That forces the town to be completely reset (including placed items and special encounter locations) the next time you enter it. That's not as good as just having that stuff re-init on every town entry, but at least I can use a save file a BIT more recent since I thought of that. :) [ Wednesday, April 28, 2004 01:25: Message edited by: spyderbytes ] -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Wednesday, April 28 2004 01:22
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I don't think the item thing could be done without significant reworking of the engine. After all, how is it supposed to tell the difference between an item that's not on the floor in the savefile because it's already been picked up by the party and one that's not on the floor in the savefile because it didn't exist in the version of the scenario in which the file was saved? [ Wednesday, April 28, 2004 01:23: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
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written Wednesday, April 28 2004 01:31
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Picky, picky, Thuryl! :D Good point I hadn't really thought of (I'm still thinking in designer mode, not player mode :) ). I was thinking more of the decision on what items to actually place and what are unnecessary junk (which can change significantly if you add a slew of new items, I suspect). But the location of a special encounter rectangle (and which scenario state it calls) shouldn't cause any such problems if they're re-inited every time the town is entered. Or not in any way I can see offhand, at least. -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Wednesday, April 28 2004 02:07
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Well, unless the party is saved inside the boundaries of the new rectangle but outside the old one, in which case they'd have to leave and re-enter the rectangle to activate it, or vice versa, in which case stepping into the new rectangle could activate it a second time when it really shouldn't. Doesn't seem a serious enough problem to prevent it from being done at all, though -- just something to keep in mind when testing. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
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written Wednesday, April 28 2004 11:10
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Well, there's also adding and removing special encounter rectangles to be accounted for; but again, that's nothing that would ever affect the player. This would be completely for the designer's convenience. EDIT: See this post for more on this subject. After that discovery, I felt the topic deserved its own thread. [ Wednesday, April 28, 2004 12:28: Message edited by: spyderbytes ] -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |