Profile for Kelandon


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quote:
Originally written by Stillness:

Contrary to the opinion of some, marriage is strongly related to child rearing and sex.
Child-rearing is completely different from child-producing. Gay people can raise kids. (They can also produce children, though not with each other — but that has led to various solutions by various same-sex couples.) Gay people can also have sex (and same-sex intercourse is not inherently unhealthy, and any claims to the contrary are baseless and absurd). These do not make same-sex relationships different in any important way from opposite-sex ones.
quote:
But, if the government sees some particular type of action as generally good, why can’t it encourage that while not discouraging or making illegal other types of actions?
It can, I suppose, but if it makes arbitrary distinctions between things that do not differ in any important respects, then it is acting on the basis of prejudice. This is why I keep stressing that same-sex marriage and opposite-sex marriage do not differ in any respects related to marriage, any more than same-race or opposite-race marriages do.

To take the example of your empowerment zone, presumably the government has some legitimate reason from wanting to see growth in some particular area. If the government arbitrarily selected certain zones for monetary benefits and excluded others for no legitimate reason, that would be called "pork" and would be unjust. It happens, but it is inappropriate. In the same way, making this arbitrary distinction between same-sex and opposite-sex marriage is inappropriate.

[ Tuesday, December 18, 2007 12:28: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

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quote:
Originally written by Stillness:

quote:
gay people can have sex. Unless you can make a reasonable argument that the kind of sex matters — and the Lawrence v. Texas decision goes against that notion — then gay marriage should be on equal footing.
Does it really? I don’t think so. I think it says the government can’t interfere in the bedroom, not that sodomy=heterosexual vaginal sex. Correct me if I’m wrong. If I am, it would seem you have the law in your favor.

I don't think there is any circumstance — maybe someone can contrive one — in which the exact nature of the sex being had makes any legal difference whatsoever. Laws regarding rape, etc., all apply no matter what position or type of intercourse was happening.

quote:
quote:
same-sex marriage can be good in the very same ways that opposite-sex marriage can be.
This is a logical argument if you can make it. I won’t argue here. I have never heard this argument publicly espoused, except on these boards.
You may not have heard it publicly espoused, because politicians tend (particularly on this issue, but also in general) to stress their positions and not their reasoning. But this has been what I've been saying for pages now: there is no difference relevant to the purposes of marriage between same-sex marriages and opposite-sex marriages, and since there is no difference, they are equally good and useful.

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
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quote:
Originally written by Locmaar:

So you're right with your summary of what Stillness said, but not with what he was trying to get at, I think.
And you think that what he "was trying to get at" is that homosexuality is wrong and immoral, and that was the point of all of this?

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
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quote:
Originally written by Locmaar:

I think your explanation of what you think he was trying to get at sounds nice, but I don't share your assessment.
You still aren't understanding, I think. I'm not saying that Stillness supports gay marriage (he doesn't). I'm not saying that he's not horribly biased and prejudiced (he is). I'm saying that he has claimed not to take a stand on the gay marriage issue here, and his arguments here regarding the issue that he's attempting to address have not made any point about whether gay marriage is right or wrong; they've addressed its comparability to other forms of discrimination.

I've merely asserted that it's possible for him to do so. If you disagree with me, please explain clearly why, in particular by saying what exactly you disagree with (whether this was in fact Stillness's point or whether it is possible for someone to avoid taking a position on this issue in this discussion).

[ Monday, December 17, 2007 10:03: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
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quote:
Originally written by Locmaar:

I know what you were trying to do and that is what I was referring to: your explanation of Stillness' reasoning.
You said: "We mustn't forget, as splendid as your logic sounds, that we can't compare marriages in order to find discrimination, since it isn't marriage that's being discriminated. The individuals who are getting married (or not) are the ones who are being discriminated on feeble grounds." The only point that I made in the preceding post was that one could think that banning gay marriage is not comparable to Jim Crow discrimination but also think that banning gay marriage is wrong.

quote:
Edit: As regards to my being obtuse (better: now being really obtuse): Alec at least had the courtesy of explaining to Safey why he is an idiot. What's your story?
I did. It was the following sentence. Confusing my opinions with Stillness's is pretty bad.

quote:
quote:
That's not the topic under discussion.
It isn't for you, nor most other people on the board, but for Stillness it is.
If I'm not mistaken, this is what Slarty's "No, it's not," was in reference to.

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
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quote:
Originally written by Locmaar:

We mustn't forget, as splendid as your logic sounds
My logic? Now you really are being obtuse. I was just summarizing the argument of the person I've been disagreeing with for fifteen pages.

quote:
If somebody, e.g. a homophobe Jehova's Witness tries to prove to you that homosexuality is bad
That's not the topic under discussion.

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
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quote:
Originally written by Synergy:

Show me anyone who does get what the hell Stillness is actually trying to say, and, more importantly why he is saying it.
He's said it a whole bunch of times. He's saying that not allowing gay marriage is not discrimination in the way that Jim Crow laws were discrimination, because gay marriage really is different from straight marriage, whereas black people aren't really different from white people.

This argument isn't valid, but it isn't hard to understand.

The problem that you've been having is that you think that this means that he's arguing against gay marriage. He's not. One could (via some circuitous but possible logic) argue that it may not be prejudicial discrimination but it's still not right for various reasons, and therefore gay marriage should be allowed. He's explicitly not taken a stand on that. He's just saying that it's not like racial discrimination, whether it's right or wrong.

[ Monday, December 17, 2007 05:29: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
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quote:
Originally written by Stillness:

Synergy,

Are you even trying to understand what I’m saying? Your responses indicate that you’re not. I’m not saying that marriage should be restricted because it’s a moral issue, because I’m not saying that marriage should be restricted!

Yeah, Stillness is right on this one. Synergy's responses have reflected little to no understanding of what Stillness has actually said. Just wanted to note that.

quote:
How little or how much an opposite-sex marriage differs from any other union is irrelevant. They differ. And not in an arbitrary way like race.
I don't think you actually understand why racial discrimination is wrong. It's not because race is arbitrary. Race isn't entirely arbitrary. Arbitrary is like sign conventions in physics: electrons flow down a wire, and physicists define current as flowing one way, and engineers define it as flowing the other way. They're still describing the same current, but one has a sign convention in one direction and the other has a sign convention in another. That's completely arbitrary.

In appearance, at the very least (and here I'm not getting into genetic arguments, but they could be made), people of different races are genuinely different. They're not exactly the same (not like the current in the wire). If they were exactly the same, racial discrimination wouldn't even be possible (because how would you ever tell the difference, in order to discriminate?). Racial discrimination is not wrong because race is arbitrary; it's not.

Racial discrimination is wrong because race is almost entirely irrelevant to any sort of decision. Interracial marriage is different from non-interracial marriage: after all, the participants are of different races! But we know that interracial marriages do not differ from non-interracial marriages in any way that is significant to marriage, so we do not discriminate in that regard. Likewise, same-sex marriages differ, but they do not differ in any important way. Relevance is the important factor.

So I suppose you're right in one respect: how much they differ doesn't matter. In what way they differ matters quite a bit, though: one marriage can be exceedingly different from another and still be a marriage, but marriage between a human and a plant is just not possible because the plant can't consent. Consent is important for marriage.

Unless one can argue that the way that same-sex marriage differs from opposite-sex marriage is important for marriage, then the two should be equal under the law.

quote:
I know many couples don’t have children, but I think just about all marriages are or have been sexual in nature.
Sure, but gay people can have sex. Unless you can make a reasonable argument that the kind of sex matters — and the Lawrence v. Texas decision goes against that notion — then gay marriage should be on equal footing.

quote:
Whatever the case, the government recognizes them because they think it’s good overall.
Yes. But same-sex marriage can be good in the very same ways that opposite-sex marriage can be.

(The discussion that followed about the empowerment zone doesn't really make sense.)

[ Sunday, December 16, 2007 11:04: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
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quote:
Originally written by Safey:

I still find that hard to buy. Food stamps are easy enough too get and because of that food wasn't a problem.
Apparently the average monthly benefit per person is in the neighborhood of $80. That's not very much money to feed someone for a whole month. It certainly won't cover anything expensive.

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
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quote:
Originally written by Safey:

Substances abusers are to concerned with their next dose to be worried about whether or nor their gay.
That's like saying, "Substances abusers are to concerned with their next dose to be worried about whether or not they're male." It's not a philosophical question you have to ponder over; you're either gay or you're not, most of the time (although there are exceptions).

quote:
All homeless people are poor but not all poor people are homeless. The majority of poor people are not homeless their for your statics assuming they are true is not a good cross sectional for poor people since their are major differences between the habits of poor people and homeless people.
Uh, remind yourself what we were discussing again. You said that poor people aren't gay. The statistic is just to show that some are.

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
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Underscore Slarty here. It's certainly much easier to eat healthy when you can afford that organic produce from the farmer's market. But when all you've got is a couple bucks, and your choice is between a cheeseburger and a single heirloom tomato, the decision is usually pretty simple.

It possible to eat right cheaply, but it's harder.

[ Saturday, December 15, 2007 19:25: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
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I do like have specifics available in a manual somewhere. That way, if you're bogged down by the numbers, you don't have to look at them in-game, but if you want to know details, you can find them easily. BoA did this, to some extent.

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
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Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
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quote:
Originally written by Safey:

I always considered homosexuality to be something entertained by the rich. Judging from high schools few poor high schools have gay people.
High schools are not the best sample to use because many gay people have not come out yet in high school. High schools that you're familiar with do not constitute a representative sample of anything, so they can't be used to extrapolate anything.

quote:
Even your examples out of history come from times when that particular civilization was prosperous.
History comes from prosperous civilizations. We don't have records from anybody else.

quote:
Gay marrage is simply a tool used by those in ivory towers to gain political clout.
Yes, because Gavin Newsom helped his chances for election to a higher office so much by supporting gay marriage in San Francisco. (It could be argued that he basically guaranteed himself a second term as mayor, but he also killed his previously decent chances at governor or higher.)

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
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quote:
Originally written by Stillness:

From World Book Multimedia Encyclopedia 2003 Edition
“Most couples decide to marry because they love each other and want to spend the rest of their lives together. A man and woman who marry usually hope to share a special sexual relationship and a permanent romantic attraction. But each hopes the other will always be a close friend as well. Each also expects the other to help with many problems and to share certain responsibilities. These responsibilities include earning a living, budgeting money, paying bills, preparing meals, and taking care of a home.
It is possible for same-sex couples to have sex and (obviously) a permanent romantic attraction. The exact anatomical nature of the intercourse is not significant to marriage, any more than the position in which opposite-sex partners conduct their relations.

quote:
[i]Most couples who marry plan to have children and to raise them together. A husband and wife are required by law to protect and care for their children. Marriage thus serves as the basis of family life (see FAMILY).”[/i] [emphasis mine]
Same-sex couples can certainly adopt, and many opposite-sex couples also adopt instead of having children with each other. This is a some-of-the-time difference, not an all-of-the-time difference (just as a statistical correlation between educational level and race might be; it would still be prejudiced to think that a black person that you meet is less educated than a white person, because it's a general trend, not a universal law).

quote:
Now, I freely admit that this encyclopedia is not winning any awards for anything, but it seems you are a bit off about sex and children.
You'll note that it doesn't actually say that the purpose of marriage is to have sex or children. It is possible to have them outside the context of marriage, and it possible to have marriage without them. Therefore, they are not an integral part of marriage.

quote:
But even if a couple don’t have sex or children, the government still recognizes them as married for whatever reasons.
Hey, wait, which side are you on? If you recognize that marriage doesn't require sex or children (and they don't require marriage), then how can you possibly argue that that's what marriage is for? Or more importantly, that that's what the government thinks marriage is for?

quote:
If you are making an argument for a different type of union to be recognized, make it a logical one. If you say they love each other just like heterosexuals and that’s good enough, then let that be your argument.
I've said, time and time again, that same-sex relationships do not differ from opposite-sex relationships in any ways that are significant for marriage. That's why they should be treated equally for marriage purposes, and to do otherwise is prejudicial.

[ Friday, December 14, 2007 21:30: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
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BoE is now open-source. I think CM was just saying that the people who were working on it don't appear to be working on it anymore.

EDIT: Thuryl is a minute faster than I.

[ Friday, December 14, 2007 18:01: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
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quote:
Originally written by Stillness:

Kel, the point is that same-sex unions are not the same as opposite-sex unions.
I ask again what that has to do with marriage. If they differ, but do not differ in any way related to marriage, then they should be treated the same way with respect to marriage.

Put another way: The reason that racial discrimination in job applications is almost always prejudicial is that racial identity is of no significance to just about any job. But it is certainly true that an black person is not identical to a white person. In the same way, same-sex partnership is not identical to opposite-sex partnership, but in what way is the difference significant?

Discrimination (in the broad sense) based on irrelevant factors, such as race, is wrong. How is the sex of the two partners relevant to marriage?

[ Friday, December 14, 2007 09:38: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
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quote:
Originally written by Stillness:

Kel, only opposite sex pairings can produce children naturally and only they make use of the genitalia implied by their form. This makes them naturally different.
What do either of those things have to do with marriage?

quote:
Alo, I’ve addressed your points, but I’m curious about your statement on saying homosexuality is not unnatural scientifically. What science are you referring to?
Presumably the overwhelming amount of same-sex intercourse that occurs in nature.

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
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quote:
Originally written by Slartucker forever ago:
One last note. Spelling is especially important when you refer to an NPC you didn't create. If you want someone to talk about Rentar-Ihrno, for example, look up the spelling of her name, don't guess (Rintarino? Rent-Arono?). If you're not careful, she might just throw some quickfire at you.
Ah, good old "Notes on Dialogue."

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
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quote:
Originally written by Synergy:

There is no satisfactory dialog with anyone who bases their belief about the nature and quality of all things on the Bible or a religious text.
About morality, sure. About constitutionality, I'm less inclined to agree. It seems likely that people could say, "This is morally wrong, but it's constitutional." Slavery was constitutional for about a century after the founding of the U.S., and I can acknowledge that while still believing that slavery is wrong.

Fortunately, this discussion is not about whether gay marriage is right or wrong, but about whether disallowing same-sex marriage is prejudicial discrimination in the same way that Jim Crow racism was.

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
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quote:
Originally written by Genevieve:

I thought they would reappear when I got to R-I (don't know how to spell the crazy lady's name!)
quote:
Originally written by deltaflyer:

Rentar-Ihrno
Hey, I'm a grammar nazi.

quote:
Originally written by Tyranicus:

That was not a grammatical error, or any kind of error at all. Since when are abbreviations not grammatically correct? :P
I think the intention was to specify the correct spelling in light of the original poster's statement, not to correct the original poster's grammar (which, as you say, would be nonsensical).

R-I is fortunately unambiguous, though, so the actual spelling doesn't really matter. I'm not sure why Rentar-Ihrno would be difficult to spell, though, if one at least read the name aloud once phonetically. Then again, I've had the same thought about the word "vahnatai," and we know the tendencies there.

[ Thursday, December 13, 2007 20:33: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
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That was the pun I was looking for. Thanks, Thuryl.

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
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Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
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quote:
Originally written by Stillness:

They do differ in very basic, natural ways.
I'm not sure that you've ever substantiated this. I'd like you to explain, without an appeal to prejudice or to an ill-defined concept such as "society's views," how same-sex relationships differ from opposite-sex ones in ways that are directly relevant to marriage.

[ Thursday, December 13, 2007 14:29: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
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Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
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quote:
Originally written by Drew:

If I never have to look at another LSAT question, it will be okay with me. I hope you aren't inflicting that on yourself, Kel, though it certainly does open much more remunerative paths to you than a Ph.D in Ancient Greek or Physics.
Evidently you've forgotten what I do for a living. I teach test prep. The LSAT is my favorite test. :P

quote:
Originally written by Stillness:

That sounds like an argument from ignorance.
No. I'm not claiming that anything in particular is true or false (which is an integral part of an argument from ignorance). I've said that, lacking substantial evidence, the default response should be not to make a distinction between two things that may not differ, because to do otherwise is prejudicial and therefore discriminatory. I've also said that, in this case, we lack substantial evidence. The conclusion follows.
quote:
A decision has to be prejudicial to be discriminatory. Calling all handicapped people disabled and making a determination on that basis is not prejudice. You can use the same word – “discrimination” - to describe it if you please or if you think the dictionary allows it, but it is not the same thing and it is not a matter of degree. One involves prejudice. The other does not. That’s what makes it equivocation to equate them.
Then let's not use the word "discrimination." Let's use the word "prejudice." They're not the same, as any dictionary will tell you, and "prejudice" is less ambiguous anyway.

Prejudice is bad (and against the spirit of the Constitution). If not allowing same-sex marriage constitutes prejudice (in the same way that not allowing interracial marriage did), then not allowing same-sex marriage is bad and unconstitutional.

The usual reason given for not allowing same-sex marriage is the one that you've been attempting to give this whole time: opposite-sex marriages are better. This reason is given without evidence, and therefore it is a judgment made prior to knowing any relevant facts. That makes it prejudice.

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
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Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
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Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #239
I was wondering if Drew would comment on my LSAT-speak. I guess it wasn't blatant enough. :P

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Omaha Mall Shooting in General
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #234
quote:
Originally written by Stillness:

All opposite-sex marriage is male-female. That is the pairing that is perceived to be ideal.
By you. Given the statistics you cited, same-sex marriage might be even better. We have no idea.

quote:
Kel, if you think “All white people are superior” has the same quality as “All handicapped people have a disability” I don’t think there’s much more to say.
Heh. I was wondering if you'd notice. I'll grant that. I notice, though, that you've (as is your wont) ignored the other half of my post, the part that's harder for you to refute.

To reiterate: Your argument runs like this.
Premise 1: All handicapped people have a disability. (Fine.)
Premise 2: Having a disability merits (not in the sense that it’s earned, but that society says it entitles) special treatment. It’s been discussed, thought over, and legislated because it makes us a kinder society and/or whatever other reasons there are. (Eh. Weird, but not what makes this argument most vulnerable to criticism.)
Conclusion: Handicapped parking spots is not discrimination - not this definition. (Shift in language flaw!)
Assumption: If society says that something is appropriate, it's not discrimination. That is, society cannot choose to discriminate. (This is wildly untrue.)

[ Wednesday, December 12, 2007 22:02: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00

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