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Is 8 really the highest useful leadership? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #12
Thuryl's right. What AM I talking about? *blinks*

[ Saturday, February 17, 2007 04:59: Message edited by: Slartanalycyst ]

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
What Spells Do You Wish You Could Cast? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #18
The non-damage spells might begin with a base 100% to-hit instead of the standard elemental to-hits (60% fire, 70% magic/acid, 80% ice). Or they might begin with 70%. I don't really remember.

Do note that "a couple of points" difference in spell skill is worth 5% to-hit per point, so that could be a big chunk of what you saw.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Is 8 really the highest useful leadership? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #5
I assume you are talking about Duncan in Rivergate Keep. Although Leadership can make it easier to get him to train you, you don't need it, and you only need a minimal pro-shaper reputation (105) to utilize him. Leadership exchanges on a 1 to 1 basis with reputation for his check, so pumping leadership high for that would be a gross waste of skill points.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
What Spells Do You Wish You Could Cast? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #14
The chance of hitting with Essence Shackles, as with any spell, is dependent on your skill in Spellcraft, your skill in the spell's field (in this case, Mental Magic), and your skill in the spell itself. It is NEVER dependent on Intelligence, Dexterity, Missile Weapons, or anything else.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Nethergate: Resurrection in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #0
The Coming Soon page on the spidweb website lists the title of Nethergate 2.0 as Nethergate: Resurrection. Neat.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Avernum 4 - 7.63 (10.0/1.0) in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #14
Well, there is the bit about how they hate Prazac's liberal rule and want a return to life under the Hawthornes. But knowing Jeff, that will get recapped in a clickable tome somewhere early on.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Geneforge Political Spectrum in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #34
*nod*
This is true. I always thought of the Awakened in the middle as they are not actively hostile towards the Shapers, and in G1/2 that made a lot of sense. With the more recent rebel attitude it may make sense to flip as such. Shrug.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Oldbiehood in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #70
Not to mention the 1/2 amazing ones.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Geneforge Political Spectrum in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #28
"Typically"? What trilogy of trilogies goes in that order, other than the projected one for Star Wars?

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Oldbiehood -- Analysis in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #8
Creating that poll would, however, be an interesting way to crash UBB.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Avernum 4 - 7.63 (10.0/1.0) in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #5
Not nearly as bad as people here make it out to be. Going from best to worst: the engine was mostly excellent, but with a few really putrid elements. Game balance was good. Combat alternated between interesting and debilitating. The atmosphere wasn't great. The plot was completely deplorable.

As somebody said, a good game but a very bad Avernum game. With a different setting it might have been an 8.3.

Better than G2 and G3 because of game balance, but worse than the other original games else because of plot (and atmosphere). Fun despite the plot, just not always engaging. I think I'd rather play it than A3 (given E3). 7.8.

EDIT: What kind of cruel joke is this that you revive Homeland but not Nethergate?!?

[ Friday, February 16, 2007 10:53: Message edited by: Slartanalycyst ]

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Geneforge 3 - 7.47 (9.5/2.0) in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #8
I think I'm the only person who gave this one a non-knee-jerk rating. Sheesh. Maybe we can do better this time around.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Blades of Avernum - 8.66 (10.0/7.0) in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #17
Alorael, you took the words right out of my _ and _.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Oldbiehood -- Analysis in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #4
D'oh. And I definitely knew that, too. Sorry D.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Oldbiehood in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #58
I am slightly miffed that you are complaining, but clearly did not read the original post.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Geneforge Political Spectrum in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #25
Geneforge Gaiden!

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
The Ancient Greeks in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #32
IMAGE(http://www.livejournal.com/userpic/17943740/476487) IMAGE(http://www.livejournal.com/userpic/17943740/476487) IMAGE(http://www.livejournal.com/userpic/17943740/476487)

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Oldbiehood -- Analysis in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #0
Here, the promised analysis of the oldbiehood poll. This analysis was done as of 44 poll votes. 16/44 voters considered themselves oldbies.

Poll results
Although absolute recognition of oldbiehood, according to its traditional definition, is far from universal, the results nonetheless demonstrate a striking adherence to that definition. Although extraneous but visible factors clearly influenced the results, the number of votes a member got varied pretty closely with the degree to which he meets the definition of oldbie.

Let's look at the unquestioned oldbies first:

43 -- Drakefyre
40 -- Alorael
35 -- Alec
32 -- Scorpius
30 -- Zeviz
28 -- Djur

These guys all got more votes than anyone else. Helpfully, they suggest several secondary factors influencing perception of oldbiehood:

+ High post count (Alorael)
+ Activity (Alorael)
- Inactivity (Djur)
- PDN changing on a less than daily basis (Alec)

+ Prestige role in Dikiyoba's stories (Drakefyre)
+ Low member number (Scorpius)
+ Tendency to be discussed by other members (Djur)
- Lack of attention-seeking behavior (Zeviz)

There were several answers that were legitimately confusing or borderline:

26 -- Aran
21 -- Kelandon
18 -- Lt. Sullust
14 -- Zxquez

As Aran observed, he and Kelandon both fit with the oldbies in many ways, in terms of social characteristics and community services, and they outdate most newer members by two or more years. But neither is covered by the traditional definition of oldbie.

I'm not sure myself whether Sullust and Zxquez would fit the traditional definition, though I think they would. Their lower numbers were expected, given their inactivity and lack of flashy behavior. That said, Sullust still posts on rare occasions, and Zxquez was discussed in a recent thread with specific reference to the era he posted in. I imagine the numbers would have been lower without those influences. These guys suggest some factors in the oldbiehood equation:

+ Degree of enmeshment in oldbie social network
+ Degree of celebrity within community (often based on community services)

On to the clear non-oldbies:

18 -- Delicious Vlish
17 -- Slartucker
17 -- Salmon
14 -- Ephesos
12 -- Tyranicus
9 -- Dikiyoba
9 -- Randomizer
7 -- Nioca
3 -- Ed
0 -- Upon Mars

The results here show a spectrum of confusion, but most of it can be easily explained.

Vlish and I were expected to have inflated results. We both have low member numbers (and we both did post five or so years ago, though very little and not in Misc. or General). We both have custom titles. Vlish is a moderator, and I got a disproportionate amount of screen time in Dikiyoba's first two episodes. Ephesos shares that last characteristic with me, and along with his contributions to BoA, that may explain his inflated number.

Salmon somehow gets inserted into every thread, and as a result is frequently commented on. Tyranicus has his new satellite and is very active socially. All five of us have been active long enough that "teenagers" like Nioca probably can't tell the difference.

I was surprised to see Dikiyoba and Randomizer tie, given the celebrity that Dikiyoba receives for his creative works, and the fact that Dikiyoba has been around longer. I suspect the equalizer is the fact that Dikiyoba is not attention-seeking (compare to Zeviz in the first group) while Randomizer tends to join Vlish and myself in making comments about video games from two decades ago.

Nioca's votes presumably stem from his high activity level, plus the fact that at several months he outdates very new members. Upon Mars was pretty much a control variable. He speaks well for the poll's integrity. As for Ed, his votes were to be expected; without an "I don't know" option some voters were bound to assume people they'd never heard of were retired oldbies.

A look at oldbie generations
A number of respondents brought up the idea of oldbie generations (or circles, or subgroups, or staggered degrees). I think this is a relevant idea which in fact explains why the cutoff for oldbie is where it is.

Let's start by looking at the last two generations. I'm going to suggest that the previous one was centered around last spring, and extended out with waning intensity both before and after. Why last spring? There were a number of community events with a high level of individual involvement that made spidweb a place of heightened social interchange. I'm talking about the twice weekly chats with regular attendance of 15 or more; the Ash controversy; Ed and Arghhhhhhhhh; the Synergy-Kelandon flamewar and the numerous spinoff topics about personality and whatnot; Slarty vs. Desk and Dikiyoba's original script; the reincarnated World of Avernum RP; and maybe even the incessant arguing about A4. Community projects tended to build specifically on the current composition of the community; besides Episode 1, there was the Periodic Table, the family tree and matchmaking list, Spidweb ChronoCross, several alternate custom title lists, a country topic, personality groupings, and so on.

The community has not quite had the critical mass to give birth to another full-fledged generation since then. I may be biased due to skipping out for four months in the summer, but I think it had already mostly petered out before I left. Part of the reason is that several key catalysts, who tended to stir up others (rather than cause scandals or embark on community-oriented projects themselves) disappeared. Marlenny, Dareva and TM would go in this category, and doubtless others I've forgotten. Their presence combined with the energy sinks like Ed and the storytellers like Dikiyoba resulted in an atmosphere particular to that generation.

Now, what makes that generation significant at the moment (and probably not forever) is that a decent chunk of currently active members joined (or in several cases, became significantly more active) during that time or in the months leading up to it. Dikiyoba, Vlish, myself, Tyranicus, Fatman, Dintiradan, Salmon, Lenar, the list goes on.

It's harder to come up with as many active members who joined two years ago, or three years ago, or four years ago -- and who are still around. Aran, Kel, Ephesos, Nikki, and so on, they are there, but there aren't so many remaining from any one period. This is because they drifted off, and it will happen to the last generation eventually too. We still hear memories from those periods -- think Nephils vs. Sliths, or Rosycat -- we just don't have that generation's children.

The oldbie generation has those same kinds of strong community memories -- the Arena, Misc., BoE community lore, News at 11, Inn of Blades, and so on. Unlike the generations from 2 or 3 years ago, however, there are still many oldbies around. Drakey, *i, Alorael, TM, MM, Saunders, Ash (mitoted or not), Scorpius of all people... you get the idea. So the people still around preserve the old conception of the community composition, which generates this idea of oldbiehood. It's parallel to the relative "I'm older than you" definition some respondents suggested, but because it comes from the community itself, and its memories, rather than an individual, it appears numinous in a way that mere seniority does not.

In conclusion, the arbitrary oldbie cutoff is legit.

Pseudo-oldbies and a continuum
But what about the pseudo-oldbies like Aran and Kel?

Nikki, I'm going to pick on you here. You and Aran have been around for similar lengths of time, I gather, but Aran is widely assumed to be an oldbie and you aren't. I don't think this is just because of the Ermarian Networks. Rather it's because Aran has become enmeshed -- incompletely, but noticeably -- in the social network of the remaining oldbies. This fact has more power than other extrachronological influences because that social net is tied so closely to the power and numinosity of oldbiehood.

Anyway, wow, I've written way too much about this. The basic idea is that oldbiehood is binary and, at this point, static -- you are or you aren't -- but there is a continuum of pseudo-oldbiehood that explains that status of Arancaytar and Kelandon, and the sometimes confusion over members like Marlenny, Tyranicus, or myself.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Oldbiehood in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #12
Kyrek actually predates you, Nioca.

Anyway, adolescents and children aren't really two different generations.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Oldbiehood in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #9
I don't think any of Aran's grandparents are beyond others' memory of joining.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Oldbiehood in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #4
Aran, did you read the paragraph explaining how the list was chosen?

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Oldbiehood in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #0
EDIT: Please vote before reading other people's opinions below.

Inspired by the topic about types of spidweb entrances, this poll attempts to determine what exactly the current community thinks an oldbie is... and just how much this differs from the traditional understanding of the term.

The list of members in the second question is somewhat arbitrary, but it is not random. It was chosen to provide a cross-section of reputations, current activity levels, methods and dates of entrance, member numbers, post counts, spam levels, name-changing tendencies, custom titles, etc., in order to yield a fruitful analysis.

[ Thursday, February 15, 2007 07:22: Message edited by: Hashi the Drug-Sniffing Canine ]

Poll Information
This poll contains 2 question(s). 65 user(s) have voted.
You may not view the results of this poll without voting.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Khyryk quest in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #7
I didn't think the variety of shade created by shapers was actually a creation. I'm not sure if the game text says they are somewhere, but the creature definitions file definitely says that no shades are creations. Shaper Shade uses the same basic information as all the regular undead. I figured it was more of a magical projection -- along the lines of the shades left behind by countless wizards in Exile.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
The Chosen Ending - Geneforge 5 in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #51
Ghaldring will clearly be an important figure in G5, G6, or both. His true goals and feelings towards the Drakon plans and life in general are pretty ambiguous. He doesn't look like he's shaping up to be a villain. Jeff's villains are never ambiguous. They may be heroes to some and villains to others, but the lines are always fairly clear.

...on the other hand, G2 and G3 both foreshadowed him, and most of the stuff Jeff foreshadows involves villains (Garzahd, Linda, Rentar-Ihrno). I suppose the Vahnatai would be a major exception.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
"Slartucker is going to have a cow when he hears about this," Synergy said.
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Khyryk quest in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #2
Out of curiosity, how much time do you spend making those edited jpgs?

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00

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