Why is Battle shaping unpopular?

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Author	Topic: Why is Battle shaping unpopular?
Gabriel's Horn Apprentice Member # 3612	written Thursday, March 8 2007 09:48 Profile #0 When I read this forum it looks like everyone prefers creations from the Fire and Magic circles. Are battle creations totally weak or are they treated as grunts to be ignored? Why doesn't doesn't anyone brag about their army of thahds or clawbugs? Posts: 26 \| Registered: Tuesday, October 28 2003 08:00
Amyth Shaper Member # 7472	written Thursday, March 8 2007 09:56 Profile Homepage #1 In GF1 through 3, battle creations were rather worthless. They could often be killed before they even reached their target. Because of the new AP system in GF4, battle creations have become useful. It's just that an army of Battle Betas still isn't quite as impressive as an army of Wingbolts. -------------------- Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them! Amnesia • Dilecia • The Empire's New Grove • Express Delivery Twilight Valley • Witch Hunt • Where the Rivers Meet • Foul Hordes Posts: 2686 \| Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
Abban Apprentice Member # 6816	written Thursday, March 8 2007 10:10 Profile Homepage #2 Battle creations are basically meat shields. Unfortunately that makes them completely useless whenever an enemy with a ranged attack appears, because they'll never reach the enemy, never block it's attacks, and sometimes, it will get in your way. In short, they suck. Although they are slightly* more useful in Genforge 4. Very slightly. -------------------- i eat serviles for breakfast. I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals. Posts: 42 \| Registered: Monday, February 20 2006 08:00*
Micawber Agent Member # 2759	written Thursday, March 8 2007 11:25 Profile Homepage #3 Personally, I quite like some battle creations. Admittedly thahds are plain useless and battle alphas, while acceptably damaging at low levels, really aren't worth their essence cost. I never tried with a war trall but I guess it is much like the battle alpha. However, clawbugs are very dangerous in sufficient numbers, and plated bugs especially so with their base 10 APs. Meanwhile rotghroths are a particular favourite of mine, they have a lot of health and do a lot of damage to everything other than other roghroths. Of course one can never rely solely on melee in Geneforge, because of the sheer number of turrets, pylons, and missile-based enemies. But so long as one has complementary attacks, battle creations can be a useful part of one's armoury. -------------------- "I can't read this thread with that image. But then, that's not a complaint." -Scorpius Geneforge 4 stuff. Also, everything I know about Avernum \| Avernum 2 \| Avernum 3 \| Avernum 4 Posts: 1104 \| Registered: Monday, March 10 2003 08:00
Dark Mage Infiltrator Member # 6136	written Thursday, March 8 2007 12:33 Profile #4 Clawbug are quite useful for the mid-begginig of the game, because they are quite well armored and almost inmune to poison, they are very useful to kill vlishes :) plated bug are even better. But Battle α and β aren't very good for their tier, they are just like thads(wich in fact are really bad creations) Well it all depends of the likes of the player. Posts: 446 \| Registered: Friday, July 22 2005 07:00
Thuryl ...b10010b... Member # 869	written Thursday, March 8 2007 14:11 Profile Homepage #5 Melee attacks always, always do less damage than ranged attacks. Also, battle creations don't really hit much harder in melee than other creation types do, and they don't have much more HP either. In other words, they're not much better than any other creation at a kind of combat that's inferior in the first place, and they can't do anything else. War Tralls get a ranged attack, but it's not that great considering how expensive they are. [ Thursday, March 08, 2007 14:12: Message edited by: Cryptozoology ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 \| Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Stillness Lifecrafter Member # 7723	written Thursday, March 8 2007 15:21 Profile #6 quote: Originally written by Cryptozoology: Melee attacks always, always do less damage than ranged attacks. Also, battle creations don't really hit much harder in melee than other creation types do, and they don't have much more HP either. In other words, they're not much better than any other creation at a kind of combat that's inferior in the first place, and they can't do anything else. War Tralls get a ranged attack, but it's not that great considering how expensive they are. I have always thought this was odd. Since battle creatures are designed for melee they should actually be good at it. It's bizarre. Why even make a battle class? Posts: 701 \| Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Faint Piping of Two Demoniac Flutes Guardian Member # 5360	written Thursday, March 8 2007 15:24 Profile #7 Well, they sometimes have marginally more health than the other classes, so that's something. Jeff fixed melee in G4, now he must fix the Battle Creations! -------------------- May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it. Posts: 1636 \| Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00
Delicious Vlish His Mighty Tentacle Member # 627	written Thursday, March 8 2007 15:48 Profile #8 Having played through the game using nothing but battle creations, I find this whole thread amusing. To be completely honest, they are not all that bad. They have a fun role playing theme. And with the right character, like say, the warrior, it is great fun to lead your patrol of alphas in to battle. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 \| Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00
Thuryl ...b10010b... Member # 869	written Thursday, March 8 2007 16:18 Profile Homepage #9 You're willing to play through the whole game with nothing but battle creations and yet you think a Shock Trooper is practically unplayable. I don't get you, man. :P -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 \| Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Delicious Vlish His Mighty Tentacle Member # 627	written Thursday, March 8 2007 17:08 Profile #10 Not unplayable... Worthless. Sub-optimal. Poorly executed. Badly done. Could have been more and failed utterly. Warrior is pretty much the same. That said, the classes are very different from their creations. Things like plated bugs and clawbugs can be very, very strong in the hands of the right player. As strong as wingbolts in the hands of the same player? No. But for tactical bliss, you can create an army of bugs and absolutely steamroll the game if you should choose to do so. Betas and alphas have their place. Using the battle creations makes for a totally different game. A different play style. More of a blitzkrieg. Having a punching, bashing, pincing goonsquad is just a lot of fun. :D -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 \| Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00
Randomizer Law Bringer Member # 6785	written Thursday, March 8 2007 20:02 Profile #11 I tried battle creations in GF3 and found that thahds and later thahd shades worked well for the first few islands. I didn't try them in GF4 since fire creations were easier to obtain and there were more items to help make them earlier on in the game. Posts: 4643 \| Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Dark Mage Infiltrator Member # 6136	written Friday, March 9 2007 12:13 Profile #12 I'm playing G3 now and I must say that I'm amused with my battle creation, betas are not that good, maybe because they are just brutish fighters, but Clawbugs and specially plated bug were really useful, especially with the old attack system, this last creation can attack a lot of targets and still move, unlike in G4, that's is a good part of the old system, if the only. Glaaks are quite good too but their magical traits seems to makes them more fragile. Posts: 446 \| Registered: Friday, July 22 2005 07:00
Stillness Lifecrafter Member # 7723	written Friday, March 9 2007 21:59 Profile #13 Glaaks are magic, not battle. I prefer the shock trooper to the lifecrafter. The only magic I really use for both is blessing. The shock trooper is handy with a blade and is more hearty. Just my preference. Posts: 701 \| Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
zergswarm13 Apprentice Member # 8258	written Saturday, March 10 2007 05:27 Profile #14 I am not a big battle user but magic creations are really good throughout the whole game. :mad: Posts: 9 \| Registered: Wednesday, March 7 2007 08:00
Darkdread Shock Trooper Member # 3716	written Saturday, March 10 2007 06:52 Profile #15 quote: Originally written by The Doctor Strange: Jeff fixed melee in G4, now he must fix the Battle Creations! Just out of curiosity, what was the improvement done in G4? Was it the fact that you can attacke even with 1 action point available? -------------------- "Inspiration comes from hard work" -Charles Baudelaire. Posts: 292 \| Registered: Sunday, November 23 2003 08:00
Dark Mage Infiltrator Member # 6136	written Saturday, March 10 2007 14:06 Profile #16 quote: Originally written by Stillness: Glaaks are magic, not battle. Oh really??? I hadn't noticed at all!! :P I mean they are melee................. And marcelo: The new system not only make possible to attack with just 1 point, but also if you are hasted and you attack, even if you have remaining A.P. you can't move, in such case you can only attack again. No te veia ace tempo :D Posts: 446 \| Registered: Friday, July 22 2005 07:00
Darkdread Shock Trooper Member # 3716	written Saturday, March 10 2007 15:16 Profile #17 I also used to think Glhaaks were battle beasts :) I don't like not being able to move after I attacked first or cast a spell (when hasted). Dark Mage: sip, no he jugado mucho geneforge estos dias, estoy con el Unreal Tournament jeje ;) y bueno se me acabaron las vacaciones igual :( -------------------- "Inspiration comes from hard work" -Charles Baudelaire. Posts: 292 \| Registered: Sunday, November 23 2003 08:00
Randomizer Law Bringer Member # 6785	written Saturday, March 10 2007 16:30 Profile #18 You can make a melee attack after spell casting or another attack. Also there is a bug that allows you to move if you use it to search an item that isn't adjacent to you. Posts: 4643 \| Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Faint Piping of Two Demoniac Flutes Guardian Member # 5360	written Saturday, March 10 2007 16:34 Profile #19 But you can't cast a spell and the move to make a melee attack. This is what killed the loner glass cannon strategy. -------------------- May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it. Posts: 1636 \| Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00
Thuryl ...b10010b... Member # 869	written Saturday, March 10 2007 18:28 Profile Homepage #20 quote: Originally written by The Doctor Strange: But you can't cast a spell and the move to make a melee attack. This is what killed the loner glass cannon strategy. You mean you can't cast a spell and then move unless you make a melee attack. Besides, the glass cannon is still alive and well in the form of the Lifecrafter, although now it's more of a glass gatling gun. Synergy's had pretty good luck with a solo glass-cannon Infiltrator in G4, too. [ Saturday, March 10, 2007 18:30: Message edited by: Cryptozoology ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 \| Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Retlaw May Shock Trooper Member # 7143	written Sunday, March 11 2007 10:48 Profile #21 There is still a decent glass cannon in the infiltrator, I'm playing one right now and when all buffed up, can usually kill most things in one round. And if that doesn't work, you can create lots of disposible creations to act as shields. After all, they are only creations. -------------------- "After I'm dead I'd rather have people ask why I have no monument than why I have one." - Cato the Elder (234-149 BC) "The mind, if it exists, is nothing but an unfortunate after effect of the brain process." -Kripke "One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly." -Friedich Nietzche Posts: 333 \| Registered: Saturday, May 20 2006 07:00
-silver- Cartographer Member # 995	written Tuesday, March 13 2007 10:24 Profile #22 I just started relying on things I ignored in the previous geneforges. now instead of "run around corner, hit turret with ice bolt, duck back around corner", I do this with my 13 AP: 1 to run around corner, 5 to attack once, 3 to ice crystal it, 3 to ice crystal it again, 1 to attack again. It doesn't live long enough to shoot back. I have to spend more time finding the spot where I can't be cross-fired, but that just makes me feel more like I earned my right to go around with low HP :) (in GF1-3, I just wandered around with the best armor I could grab and a sword, and sold _everything_ else. now I actually use some items occasionally) [ Tuesday, March 13, 2007 10:34: Message edited by: -silver- ] Posts: 206 \| Registered: Thursday, April 18 2002 07:00
lifeguardernie Apprentice Member # 3865	written Wednesday, March 14 2007 04:53 Profile #23 whats a glass cannon? -------------------- HUST? Posts: 45 \| Registered: Wednesday, January 7 2004 08:00
Amyth Shaper Member # 7472	written Wednesday, March 14 2007 06:46 Profile Homepage #24 Something that possesses a lot of offensive power, but can't defend itself very well. -------------------- Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them! Amnesia • Dilecia • The Empire's New Grove • Express Delivery Twilight Valley • Witch Hunt • Where the Rivers Meet • Foul Hordes Posts: 2686 \| Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00