Phariton = Monarch?

AuthorTopic: Phariton = Monarch?
Shock Trooper
Member # 549
Profile #0
You didn't have to kill Phariton to get the loyalist/unaligned ending. He wasn't aligned with anyone. He knew that the Shaper Council would eventually come. He was in a pretty deeply trenched position. He created suicide creations. He knows how to make canisters and he's used a lot of them. He could have escaped before the Shapers came and gone to Gorsh to build his army.
Posts: 227 | Registered: Thursday, January 24 2002 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 6136
Profile #1
Who is Phariton?? I'm sure that a lot of people don't remember it neither...
Posts: 446 | Registered: Friday, July 22 2005 07:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #2
It doesn't really make sense for Monarch to be a returning NPC. After all, why wouldn't Jeff just keep the name the same if it were the same guy? Name recognition is powerful, and it makes no sense to change a character's name and give no hints to it being the same person, it loses it's power.

The PC, on the other hand, does not have a specified name.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #3
Monarch wanted to forget his past except that he wanted revenge on the Shapers. Changing a name that he failed under makes sense.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #4
But surely Jeff would take advantage of such a story in the actual game. Monarch would have been more interesting if it was revealed that he was Phariton or Goetssch or Spharon or whoever. The fact that Jeff left it ambiguous mean he is probably not anyone we already know.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 8155
Profile #5
I'd wondered myself whether Monarch was supposed to be someone from a past game, but it has been so long since I played them I couldn't come up with anyone.

Seneschal
Posts: 8 | Registered: Thursday, February 22 2007 08:00
Councilor
Member # 6600
Profile Homepage #6
Originally by Dark Mage:

quote:
Who is Phariton??
Phariton is in G2. He is the lone Shaper in Barzite lands who will only deal with you if you are unallied with any sect.

Dikiyoba.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 549
Profile #7
Goettsch can't be alive. The Rebels would know if Monarch was someone like Spharon or Hoge. If it was the PC from the first game then the Shapers would at least suspect. Plus the PC from the first game never learned how to make canisters. Neither the Rebels or the Shapers knew much about Monarch. Phariton is the only canister using Shaper that no one in the current war would know about.
Posts: 227 | Registered: Thursday, January 24 2002 08:00
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #8
Is this question ever going to die, like it deserves? Jesus.

While we're at it, Guile isn't Magus, either. :P

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #9
quote:
Originally written by Vicheron:

If it was the PC from the first game then the Shapers would at least suspect.
... and if they did know, they'd have some very good reasons to lie.

quote:
Plus the PC from the first game never learned how to make canisters.
A long time has passed between G1 and G4.

I don't really think that Monarch was meant to be the PC from G1, but he's less unlikely than any other candidate.

[ Thursday, March 01, 2007 20:38: Message edited by: Cryptozoology ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #10
Monarch makes canisters?

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #11
Well, the Sealed Catacombs are full of canisters. He had to get them from somewhere. It's unlikely he found them anywhere near the area where G4 takes place, since they're an unusual type -- almost all the other canisters in the game just give you spells or creations, but the Sealed Catacombs ones raise your stats.

[ Thursday, March 01, 2007 21:44: Message edited by: Cryptozoology ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
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Maybe. He would have to have some serious funding to get the nessesary puresteel and crystals. But I suppose it is possible since he appears to have sold off all the equipment he got from his adventures.

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
For Carnage, Apply Within
Member # 95
Profile #13
It's been a while since I played G1, but don't all the endings conflict with the PC being Monarch? I'm sure the ones where the PC uses the Geneforge do.

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The Empire Always Loses: More fun than a kick in the shins!
Posts: 567 | Registered: Friday, October 5 2001 07:00
Shaper
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Why? Who says Monarch didn't use a geneforge? The man is impossibly powerful, sending creations through, what, five different zones? You were probably only able to beat him because he would be totally exhausted from his unending campaign to make all those creations. I'd say this is only more evidence that he is the PC, who else could gain that much power unnoticed?

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
For Carnage, Apply Within
Member # 95
Profile #15
You misunderstand me. I meant that the endings where the PC uses the Geneforge provide details that conflict with what happens to Monarch. Specifically, the PC winds up building himself a kingdom with his creations out in the wilderness, where he lives in isolation for a very long time. Monarch doesn't do either of those things. At least, that's what I remember happening, but like I said, it's been a while.

I don't remember the endings where the PC doesn't use the Geneforge nearly so well, but I think what happened is that the PC generally manages to readjust to society, and that the canisters only make him a little weird. If Monarch came from a non-Geneforge ending, you'd also have to explain how he got to be so incredibly powerful.

Furthermore, while Monarch's name is vague, his gender is not. The PC from G1 could easily have been a woman

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The Empire Always Loses: More fun than a kick in the shins!
Posts: 567 | Registered: Friday, October 5 2001 07:00
Infiltrator
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Profile #16
Where does it say that the empire didn't eventually fail? If I remember correctly Monarch said something about failing earlier and starting again in the Fens.
Posts: 626 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 7143
Profile #17
It said something like, "and your empire lasted as long as you lived, and you live a very, very, long time..." or something like that.

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"After I'm dead I'd rather have people ask why I have no monument than why I have one."
- Cato the Elder (234-149 BC)

"The mind, if it exists, is nothing but an unfortunate after effect of the brain process."
-Kripke

"One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly."
-Friedich Nietzche
Posts: 333 | Registered: Saturday, May 20 2006 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #18
quote:
Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar:

Why? Who says Monarch didn't use a geneforge? The man is impossibly powerful, sending creations through, what, five different zones? ...
Monarch doesn't control his creations. He uses a control baton to try and control those in his immediate vicinity and lets the rest run rogue. There are numerous mentions about damage to his clothes and previous control batons that implies that he wasn't that successful in controling them all the time.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Councilor
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Originally by Retlaw May:

quote:
It said something like, "and your empire lasted as long as you lived, and you live a very, very, long time..." or something like that.
It's worth noting that the chosen ending of the previous game never matches up exactly with the next game. For instance, in the loyalist ending of G1, the Obeyers get a happy ending, but in G2, there are enough former Obeyers in with the Awakened that makes it impossible for that to be true. The surviving Sholai also make peaceful contact with the Shapers in that ending, but then in G3, no one knows anything about them.

And the G1 PC can't be Monarch. In G2, Zakary reports that a Shaper escaped and warned the Shapers what was happening on Sucia Island. It's not 100% clear that the Shaper and the PC are one and the same, but that's the most reasonable option. It certainly wouldn't have been Goettsch, and a third Shaper stranded on the island is highly unlikely (especially since he or she isn't ever given a name).

Dikiyoba.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #20
GF3 has a Sholai ambassador wandering around Dhonal Keep looking for information about their lost expedition. Because of the Sucia Island coverup, he has been told that they were never in Shaper territory.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 7501
Profile #21
quote:
GF3 has a Sholai ambassador wandering around Dhonal Keep looking for information about their lost expedition. Because of the Sucia Island coverup, he has been told that they were never in Shaper territory.
now wouldnt that shorten the time frame between g1->G4?

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previous display name was TAKE ALL
SHAPER I am ALWAYS with you i know all that u do i know all of your secrets including how to shape
Posts: 41 | Registered: Sunday, September 17 2006 07:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
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Randomizer: I didn't say he controled all those creations. But still, creating them must require incredible power. Plus, he created the Titan as well. He's definitly learned a lot over the years, and not just from ordinary sources.

I agree with Dikiyoba, we can't look at any single ending as canon, even the ones that 'happened.'

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You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 7143
Profile #23
Whenever someone says Titan, I think of the things from Heroes of Might and Magic III.

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"After I'm dead I'd rather have people ask why I have no monument than why I have one."
- Cato the Elder (234-149 BC)

"The mind, if it exists, is nothing but an unfortunate after effect of the brain process."
-Kripke

"One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly."
-Friedich Nietzche
Posts: 333 | Registered: Saturday, May 20 2006 07:00