Things you would like to see in Geneforge 5
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| Author | Topic: Things you would like to see in Geneforge 5 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Friday, November 10 2006 22:20
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Since Geneforge 4 is about to be released we might as well start with what we want in the next installment. Beta testers have an unfair advantage since we already know what has been changed since Geneforge 3. 1) Male and female versions of the characters, please. I know this has been a complaint since Geneforge 1. 2) More slots to carry items in the backpack. You'll understand when you see how many items you'll carry around now that items in the backpack don't count towards encumberance. 3) A tougher expert dungeon for the end of the game. This one is hard, but doable if you are prepared. I need to see if Jeff fixed the glitch that lets you repeat the fight with the boss monster to get its dropped loot more than once (return of the infinite Chesh bug from Geneforge 1 with better treasure). Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Saturday, November 11 2006 00:36
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I kind of like the gender-limited PC graphics. The Geneforge tradition is to have male and female balance, with the odd numbered figure hooded and robed so it makes no difference. That seems somehow elegant. There needs to be some limitation on how much you can carry, otherwise (a) it's ridiculous, and (b) it actually gets tedious carrying around dozens of equipment items that are overall inferior, but that each confer one particular benefit, on the off chance that at some point you might want that little extra buff. In the current system I often do find myself wanting three or six more slots, but I'm pretty sure that would always happen, with any finite-sized backpack. I'll be happy to let the current system ride for the next game at least. Hard but doable if well-prepared seems quite fine to me for the Inner Crypt area. I don't really want an impossible challenge in the game. My three testing parties have had widely differing levels of difficulty with different parts of the game, despite being on the same difficulty setting, and the last fight (which only two of the three have tried yet) is no exception. I'm pretty sure that there will be builds and strategies that make the final game relatively easy for some classes, but I'm not sure that's a terrible problem. At any rate I think it's an inevitable problem, given Jeff's business constraints, and the only way it could be eliminated from G5 would be dumb luck. Mainly I'd like for G5 to maintain the new standard of sophistication set by G4. Oh, I could live with the variation of having G5 be more of a slugfest, but it would have to somehow be a sophisticated slugfest. Beyond this, I would like more emphasis on genuine strategy, and subtler and more obscure options, that you can't find without some real thinking. G4 initiates both of these, to the limited extent that I think Jeff's business model can tolerate innovation per game. It would be nice if G5 could develop further in these directions. -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 6581
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written Saturday, November 11 2006 04:34
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Hmm. Before saying anything, I would like to see GF4. :P -------------------- Download Geneforge 4: Rebellion You have 6 posts. Nobody cares what you think. - Thuryl Wikipedia may be your friend, but UBB is not. - Dikiyoba Posts: 1310 | Registered: Tuesday, December 20 2005 08:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 5360
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written Saturday, November 11 2006 05:44
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This topic is a bit premature, since some of the requests of non-betatesters have probably been filled already. -X- would like you to wait at least until the Macintosh version comes out. -------------------- May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it. Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Saturday, November 11 2006 06:05
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quote:This is true of almost any level of difficulty you can find in a turn-based game, though. It's particularly inevitable in Jeff's games not directly because of the business model but because his games are sidequest-heavy. On the other hand, the difficulty level setting is an unusual feature that helps a lot. Torment is usually challenging -- at least until you break the system by making seven levelled-up Vlish or whatever. In any game, if you are an experienced player adept at finding ways to turn the rules to your advantage, the only way to continue being challenged is to impose your own outside restrictions on what you can do. Hence the "single character challenges" and "low level challenges" that float around the net for console RPGs. Try playing any Geneforge as a Shaper-type who doesn't shape. Or try playing with stealth and avoiding *all* XP, not just from combat, only completing the quests that are absolutely necessary to continue the storyline. That could be very difficult. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Saturday, November 11 2006 14:16
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quote:X did this in GF1 and finished at level 5. Pretty impressive, really. (Of course, the ending he got for his trouble kinda sucked.) -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Saturday, November 11 2006 14:29
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I'd like to have a Vlish as the player character. And maybe some hidden messages or hidden jokes about human appendage pr0n. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7472
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written Saturday, November 11 2006 16:18
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A sort of flame-thrower style spell. Basically, it blankets the area between you and your targeted enemy with flame/ice/insert-damage-type-here in a inversed cone pattern, damaging everything in-between (including the target). Sort of like this: The target would take severe damage, but everything in the affected area would also take damage. It's probably too complicated to implement, though. One can always dream! -------------------- Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them! Amnesia • Dilecia • The Empire's New Grove • Express Delivery Twilight Valley • Witch Hunt • Where the Rivers Meet • Foul Hordes Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 3035
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written Saturday, November 11 2006 18:57
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4 words: more scantily clad women thank you please continue... -------------------- Geneforge 3 Trainer for windows. [NEWEST v.0.9 ~~ Trainer D/L Here (.zip, 103kb) Posts: 73 | Registered: Monday, May 26 2003 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Saturday, November 11 2006 19:28
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Another idea would be a Nethergate style game where you could start as one of the three Shaper types (shaper, guardian, or agent) or as a Rebel (warrior, infiltrator, servile, lifecrafter, or shock trooper) and have differing but intersecting missions. I did start with the pacifist game where my character refused to kill anything himself or take the kill dialog option. I got through about 20 areas of the 81 before I had to test something else. You get a lot of money selling off almost every weapon and crystal. I will try it again sometime. I think I want something better than a fyora to assist me. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 7614
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written Saturday, November 11 2006 22:57
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Not having seen G4 I feel somewhat at a disadvantage, as things I may like to see in 5 may already exist in 4. In G1 I liked the in-town feeling of each section. This was largely gone by G3, and it would nice to have it back. I also miss outdoor adventuring, but that was never in Geneforge. As far as advances that I predict we'll see in G4 are the idea of antagonists using cover to their advantage. That would be nice to see, as the current, stupid, approach takes me a bit out of the game. Posts: 143 | Registered: Sunday, October 29 2006 07:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Sunday, November 12 2006 00:11
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What do you mean by 'in-town feeling'? To me in G1, most zones felt really isolated from the other ones. I imagined a rather long path connecting them. This worked very well with the atmosphere of exploring an island that was practically one huge sealed tomb. Everything was supposed to be isolated and static, and you were coming along to dig it up. It made most zones feel sort of cosy and quiet; you had all the time in the world for each zone, and nothing else mattered while you were there. In the later games, you were not supposed to forget at any point that there were all these factions working furiously elsewhere. This didn't always work so well, but it eliminated the cosiness. Maybe it would be cool if in G5 you could start out with a static, isolated, cosy situation, and then after a while, you could do something that would make everything accelerate dramatically. That would be cool. Realistically, though, this would have to mean that the quiet times only lasted through part of the demo area, and that would not be much of the game. About using cover: an interesting idea. There is no cover in Geneforge, in the sense of being able to shoot from a spot where most of your body is protected or concealed. But it might be quite possible to add that. Even making a few of the A4 arrow slits would be interesting in some places. What you used to be able to do was abuse doors and corners in ridiculous ways to slaughter enemies without retaliation. You'll see soon what G4 has done about these. You can always use walls and corners to sneak up on enemies and attack them suddenly from short range. The Geneforge AI is not smart enough for your enemies to do this in any deliberate way, but when there are enough of them hunting you, some of them will do this accidentally anyway, and the effect is pretty much there. You can go a long way with this sort of fake AI, actually. [ Sunday, November 12, 2006 00:18: Message edited by: Student of Trinity ] -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Sunday, November 12 2006 04:05
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The Geneforge AI has changed in that even with a shaper type with 6 creations and the shaper not attacking the AI will hunt you down. You can think that you are safe around the corner doing nothing and get attacked. It doesn't seem to matter if you have more creations than the enemy as I once thought. You can't count on avoiding damage if you didn't attack. I found another glitch to annoy Jeff as he rushes to finish. Killing something off that wasn't supposed to die sure messes up the game. I'm not talking about killing NPCs with dialog options that you need this time. Just something I found by accident. [ Sunday, November 12, 2006 04:33: Message edited by: Randomizer ] Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 5360
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written Sunday, November 12 2006 05:27
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But the one thing that -X- would like in Geneforge 5 is pole weapons. Yes, pole weapons. And bows, too. Other than that, have at it. -------------------- May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it. Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 7276
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written Sunday, November 12 2006 10:50
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Well, in any CRPG, if the designer is going to put extra time and energy into improving it, I want most of that time and energy spent on stories and interesting characters. I already made my suggestion about a lightly "customized" game based on the way you played past games (to create an illusion, if not much reality, that your past characters affected the current game). The "Nethergate" idea is intriguing - once the scare value of the Drakons has worn off, maybe you get a Drakon hatchling option. In that role, you have to deal not only with the Shapers, who will never grant you peace 'til all your friends are re-enslaved, but with that new breed of ur-shaper-critters, who want to do pretty well the same thing from above and are outstripping you... That said, I would like to see the series reach its end before many more sequels come out. Not that I don't love it, but some aspects of the game are as depressing as real politics (and war) can be...and it would be nice to have an at-long-last finish to the war. One where the player gets a broad range of really stark choices...e.g.... - The obvious ones; the player helps one side vanquish the other, and becomes a power in the resulting empire. - The equally obvious one; the player wipes out the Shapers and the Drakons both, and creates a new order himself. - "Nice Guys Finish First for a %$#@! change" - The chief Drakon pays you a fortune to re-engineer him with greater powers; but you figure out how to use the same process to change his personality at the same time. He and the future drakons he spawns don't have that anti-human pround and mean streak, and they are able to make a peace treaty that works (because they're still the stronger half). - The "preachy pacifist" ending - the player tires of it all, sneaks off to an island, and lives in peace while the two sides of the rebellion scorch the earth and kill each other, down to the last two guys, who are stabbed by palace eunuchs or the GF equivalent. Said PC then ruminates on the futility of war and starts a commune, that, in a twist of irony, grows into a...naah. - "War of the Roses" - the PC uses his advanced Shaping skills, or allies, to create humans that can intermarry with drakons; after a generation of forced marriages (Shapers and Takers are equally totalitarian), the combined race goes on to rule the world in a shaper-like way, but with more restraint based on the awful past. - Beneath the Planet of the Apes, but with a "gene bomb" or "germ bomb" and maybe an Omega Man aftermath...or perhaps the world, cleared of humans and drakons, is populated by an especially intelligent but extremely pacifistic strain of Ornks. (I'd say, "And the Ornks had this planned all along," but that would be silly!) - The same, but the player was clever enough to hide in a germ-safe bunker with his new mini-Drakon mistress (or the sex-reversed equivalent)...the two then go forth to repopulate the world. (If that seems a little weird - naaah! - the PC could instead be able to invite a mix of NPC's to enter the bunker with him, and according to what they are like, the world turns out differently...killing/inviting the right choices makes a better world). Of course, stark choices like this might strain the idea of "postwar sequels" (okay, the rebellion is over; now for the next challenge...). But I'm sure the designers have plenty of other ideas to delight us. [ Sunday, November 12, 2006 11:04: Message edited by: Alberich ] Posts: 63 | Registered: Tuesday, July 4 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7472
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written Sunday, November 12 2006 10:52
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quote:Pole weapons sound neat, but not bows. I honestly don't want to see a bow in Geneforge. The thorn batons are good enough. -------------------- Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them! Amnesia • Dilecia • The Empire's New Grove • Express Delivery Twilight Valley • Witch Hunt • Where the Rivers Meet • Foul Hordes Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 5360
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written Sunday, November 12 2006 13:46
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True, but a baton just doesn't have the dramatic effect of a bow. -X- also wonders what goes on in that tiny little baton-brain too much for his own good. -------------------- May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it. Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7472
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written Sunday, November 12 2006 14:03
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quote:To my knowledge, batons don't have brains. Besides, batons are the equivalent of modern-day firearms. -------------------- Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them! Amnesia • Dilecia • The Empire's New Grove • Express Delivery Twilight Valley • Witch Hunt • Where the Rivers Meet • Foul Hordes Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4239
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written Sunday, November 12 2006 16:41
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quote:Well, you do have to coax them into mating... -------------------- There are two kinds of game players...those who are newbies, and those who were. Posts: 322 | Registered: Monday, April 12 2004 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7472
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written Sunday, November 12 2006 16:51
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Actually, now that I think about it, there was a spot in GF2 where you could repair a Submission Baton. However, if your tool use wasn't high enough, you simply made it squeak with displeasure. -------------------- Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them! Amnesia • Dilecia • The Empire's New Grove • Express Delivery Twilight Valley • Witch Hunt • Where the Rivers Meet • Foul Hordes Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4239
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written Sunday, November 12 2006 18:08
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quote:That was in G1. Or at least there's a place in G1 where you can repair a submission baton. -------------------- There are two kinds of game players...those who are newbies, and those who were. Posts: 322 | Registered: Monday, April 12 2004 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7472
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written Sunday, November 12 2006 18:14
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I get my genes mixed up sometimes. :D -------------------- Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them! Amnesia • Dilecia • The Empire's New Grove • Express Delivery Twilight Valley • Witch Hunt • Where the Rivers Meet • Foul Hordes Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Sunday, November 12 2006 18:34
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quote:-X- won't like some of Geneforge 4 where the minor creations get to "voice" their opinions. If they could get him alone in a dark alley they would get their revenge. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7472
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written Sunday, November 12 2006 18:38
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Are you toying with us again, or are you being serious? -------------------- Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them! Amnesia • Dilecia • The Empire's New Grove • Express Delivery Twilight Valley • Witch Hunt • Where the Rivers Meet • Foul Hordes Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Sunday, November 12 2006 18:51
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I doubt batons really have much in the way of "brains." Why? Because if you tried to fire them at certain creations adept at mind control, they could seize up the baton and cause it to misfire. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |