What do you think of A4
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| Author | Topic: What do you think of A4 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Tuesday, July 11 2006 00:01
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quote:To use a melee attack on a friendly or neutral target, you need to click the Attack button once you're in combat mode. It's the one with the sword on it, immediately to the left of the Quick Spell slots. [ Tuesday, July 11, 2006 00:02: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 6821
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written Tuesday, July 11 2006 00:05
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EDIT : Nevermind, Thuryl beat me to it. :P [ Tuesday, July 11, 2006 00:07: Message edited by: The Lurker ] Posts: 363 | Registered: Wednesday, February 22 2006 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 4936
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written Tuesday, July 11 2006 03:41
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Thuryl said: "I don't much like the other new monsters-built-around-graphics either, but the eyebeasts have been there since Exile/Avernum 1." No no, what I was trying to mean [sorry the english, i'm a little out of practice, since i'm a portuguese speaker...] is that the Gazer/eyebeast/beholder graphic extracted of Geneforge and placed in A4 amused me. And it was the only one cause is the "same look" creature in both worlds. Hehehe, and this graphic is pretty much scary, so i feel a little fear when i see one in the screen, even the fight isn't truly hard, hehehe. Creepy! I remember when the eyebeast graphic was a pink multi-eyed grossing mass - not much like a beholder, i always thought that it was another species. But in A4 the gazer/beholder graphic is called eyebeast too, if i'm correct. Really, I don't want see Geneforge creatures graphics used to be Avernum creatures. The scenarios are good, the people, well, okay; but the monsters, those who i've grow fearing and dreaming about are too important in my point of view to be mess up [poetic time, LOL]. Let's begging a few more terrific monsters graphics like the new demons, and the wolves, and the Vahnnnies! Hugzzzzz, Klintor. -------------------- ***************************************** Wisssdom isss the path to the immortality. Long Life to the Ssslithss. Posts: 22 | Registered: Sunday, September 5 2004 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 7274
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written Tuesday, July 11 2006 10:19
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Back to the original question, re the difficulty level, I may have to change my answer to definitely harder than previous Avernums. I'm now about halfway through all the pylons in the tunnels west of Fort Remote to Rhentar's 1st(?) hideout. I've read that there is a way to sneak around these if you're careful, but whether this or trying to take them out one grouping at a time (and returning to the fort to recover mana), I don't recall anything this difficult in prior games. Perhaps I am at too low a level (21 or so) to do this part. Posts: 2 | Registered: Monday, July 3 2006 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Tuesday, July 11 2006 13:42
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I don't remember exactly, but that sounds like a reasonable level for getting through. If you're sneaking, you don't have to attack a single pylon (or get zapped by a single one, for that matter). You will have to go slowly and back up whenever you get within pylon range and combat mode starts. It takes some trial and error and it's frustrating, but it can be done. —Alorael, who preferred the pink blob eyeball monsters. He thought they were more unique and creepy in a kind of adorably pink and amorphous way. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 7285
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written Friday, July 14 2006 13:32
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quote:Uhhhm. Thought I was replying to 'One Green Gauntlet'. Anyhways, other gauntlet tossed or Dropkick dropped, can you give a walkthru for this? I ve tried it for hours. Can't do it with out killing something. Posts: 9 | Registered: Saturday, July 8 2006 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 7305
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written Saturday, July 15 2006 08:04
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I play the demo, and it's a terrible shame it is the only Avernum I ever played not to have a windowed mode. I hope this comes in the future, along with more Slithzerikai and Nephilim skins, 4 or 5 were way too little in the previous three, but 2 is just a downright shame. I don't know whether this is lazyness on the developer's side, or has some purpose I cannot see (mainly because Slithzerikai kick ass, and a team where 2 look exactly alike eachother is simply dull...) I hope windowed mode and more Slithzerikai and Nephilim characters are added at one point. [ Saturday, July 15, 2006 08:06: Message edited by: Nepharim ] Posts: 53 | Registered: Saturday, July 15 2006 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 4936
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written Saturday, July 15 2006 10:03
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Nepharim, my party always be (in all Avernums) composed by non-humans characters, so I totally agree with you. We need more slith and nephil skins... a full slith party just have two slith models, it's ridiculous see different PCs with the same shape... In close battles, I've clicked sometimes in enemy slithzerakai/nepharim warriors thinking was mine slithy/nephil party members.... so boring... There's no shapes to mages/priests non-human characters either. All graphics are much like warriors/rebels/berzerkers, without wizards physics/compleition and different "pieces of cloth". Hugzzzzzz, Klintor. -------------------- ***************************************** Wisssdom isss the path to the immortality. Long Life to the Ssslithss. Posts: 22 | Registered: Sunday, September 5 2004 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Saturday, July 15 2006 10:34
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I'll dig around for save files right before my grand assault on the pylon fields and see what I can do. —Alorael, who's pretty sure he has all his old saves saved somewhere. It's just a matter of where. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 7305
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written Saturday, July 15 2006 10:58
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Perhaps I should get off my ass and make some sprites and avatars, but I'm lazy lately. Are they going to put in windowed play at one point? [ Saturday, July 15, 2006 11:04: Message edited by: Nepharim ] Posts: 53 | Registered: Saturday, July 15 2006 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 7313
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written Monday, July 17 2006 10:14
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I think Avernum 4's pretty good, really. Sure, it's not all that it could be, but it's a good start, and, I think, and improvement on the engine used from A1-BoA. Summoning spells might have gotten nerfed a little (at least until you get Divine Host,) but that's something that can easily be fixed in the next release. The removal of the targeting system (which I don't understand -- did Spiderweb just run out of time or did they not like that for some reason?) is disturbing but far from fatal, and in fact I like the new targeting for spells like Ice Bolts (it's not really much better or worse, just different: you have a chance to hit more enemies but they have to be closer.) We also might see at least some spells using the old targeting system in A5, who knows. On the other hand, some serious problems A1-BoA had have been fixed, including fixing First Aid (actually a useful skill now) and improving Nature Lore (having to fight every single randomly spawned rat is annoying.) I also found most of the quests to often require more critical thinking: take for example the the quest to kill the Cauldron-born (hardy zombies). Instead of being able to just wollop everyone's rear assuming you've got the right skills, gear and spells, you actually have to figure out how to kill them (though a high-enough level party might be able to run through that place killing everything with acid.) Same goes for the shades: it really shocked me when I was confronted with an enemy I couldn't kill. I've neverhad that happen to me in Avernum before, at least as far as I can recall (not counting "throw switch/activate doodad to kill boss" dungeons). Another great thing: no more freaking fake walls. I'm sorry, those things are just annoying. You pretty much just had to run into walls randomly to find a whole bunch of stuff, and they always got overused. There should be, at most, one fake wall per dungeon/town, and whether you find it or not should be based on a skill or something, not whether you're willing to run up against every wall in the entire world to see if it's fake. As for the plot, it's best to keep in mind that this isn't just Avernum 4, it's more like "Avernum II 1." A whole lot of work went into overhauling the engine and the plot didn't get as much work as it should have. Still, it's better than A1, which I'm sure you all remember is the same thing as E1. We're also seeing as shift in the tone of the Avernum series: previous Avernum games were fairly lighthearted: I mean, just look at the skill graphics of anvils falling on people's heads and theives stealing women's undergarments. A4 was much more serious, lacking those graphics and presenting a more troubled, hard world. For example, in A1-3, X seemed more like a comical character than anything, but my reactions to him in A4 ranged somewhere between pity and unease. Solberg, too, provoked more emotions from me than your average Avernum character ever did, and there's several other examples I could name too. But generally, I think that the Avernum series is maturing plot-wise right now: we're seeing less and less of the characteristic humor (though it's certainly still present, especially in the comments about "adventurers") and more and more moral ambiguity. Once the engine's fine-tuned and Jeff has a clear idea exactly what he wants to do with the series, then I expect we're going to see deeper chacacters and better plots. Once again, remember that the last time they upgraded the engine (i.e. Exile to Avernum) they didn't even bother writing a new story. They could have just renamed the series and done the same thing all over again. I'd say going from writing nothing to writing something that's just ok instead of amazing is at least a step up. I can see how this game would alienate some diehard Avernum fans: it changes a good number of things that have been in the game since A1, or even the Exile series. But I think if we give this series some time, we may find Avernum 5 or 6 to be the best installment yet. Personally, I wasn't much of a fan of A1 (I had already beaten E1 at least 5 times by that point, and still honestly prefer it,) but I think A3 was the best game in either the Avernum or Exile series. Having played A4, I'm very optimistic for the series right now. Posts: 2 | Registered: Monday, July 17 2006 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Monday, July 17 2006 12:33
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quote:Well, yeah. I just expected more. But I think you're right about A5: I'm looking forward to what Jeff makes and hoping that he'll do a little more with the finer points (plot, characters, etc.) this time. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 7314
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written Tuesday, July 18 2006 03:52
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Very well balanced. I liked the tough battles - the ones that force you to find a winning strategy. Globally, the right difficulty for the average gamer. Right now I'm playing a mage/priest singleton (who said you need a tank singleton?). It's tough - some bosses are very difficult, especially the ones that charm you... but you can still beat them. -------------------- Kaa Posts: 7 | Registered: Tuesday, July 18 2006 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 7313
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written Wednesday, July 19 2006 23:19
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I also think Geneforge has kind of spoiled us as far as complex plots and moral imbaguity goes. The Geneforge series has always been very plot-based and forced you to make moral decisions, while Avernum is more of a dugeon crawl. Posts: 2 | Registered: Monday, July 17 2006 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 4153
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written Thursday, July 20 2006 04:36
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quote:Ahem... there's a difference between complex and good. A4 wasn't really either of the two. Avernum in general is more atmosphere-based. If you want "moral ambiguity," just play one of TM's BoA scenarios... :P -------------------- Thuryl: "Runescape: for people who are too stupid to save their games." Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Thursday, July 20 2006 06:08
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Personally, I was far more engaged by the plots of A1-3 than those of GF1-3. My feelings about A4 are entirely because I'm comparing it with A1-3, not with GF1-3. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 4763
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written Monday, July 24 2006 08:36
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I don't really understand a lot of the negative feedback on A4, here. I'd say it was a bit of a step in a new direction, both in terms of story and gameplay. The Vahnati conflict has finally been neatly resolved, for now, and A5 is looking to deal heavily with the internal political forces clashing within the Empire. As far as difficulty goes, this was the first Avernum game that I found myself unable to play on the hardest setting starting from lvl 1, and I can appreciate that (although I also had a few tough encounters in BoA). The entire game was, as always, masterfully narrated, which is a large part of the reason I enjoy Avernum. Regardless of graphics, it's still more immersive than most rpgs I play. I can, to some extent, understand the points made about gear balance throughout the game, and there are fewer moral issues etc. to face (aside from choosing wether or not to steal everything that isn't nailed down), but overall I certainly feel A4 is on par with the other games. Oh, also, the new system with dead characters is severely more convenient, since you don't have to try and lug all their gear around until you get ressurected. Also, being able to carry any amount of weight, despite suffering an encumberance penalty, is very conveneint for loot runs. [ Monday, July 24, 2006 08:57: Message edited by: Hellchimp5 ] -------------------- I once killed a man for his teeth. Posts: 25 | Registered: Thursday, July 22 2004 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2759
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written Monday, July 24 2006 13:17
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I'd say the source of most negative comments is that people expected (maybe unrealistically) something a little bit more like Avernum 2 and a little bit less like Geneforge 3, in terms of engine, linearity and plot originality. That doesn't make it a bad game per se but maybe a little disappointing, for those who had such expectations. Its replay value is also reduced compared, to previous games. In difficulty terms, I would say that Avernum 4 is considerably easier to beat than Geneforge 2 or 3 and more like a regular Avernum trilogy game in that respect. I think A4 is a perfectly good introduction to spiderweb games if you are a new player, and a respectable continuation if you've only played the Avernum trilogy. Where it maybe doesn't work so well is for those who have been playing Geneforge (they've seen too much of it before) and for the Bladesoholics, who have more esoteric tastes (if the scenarios released so far are any indication). -------------------- "I can't read this thread with that image. But then, that's not a complaint." -Scorpius Geneforge 4 stuff. Also, everything I know about Avernum | Avernum 2 | Avernum 3 | Avernum 4 Posts: 1104 | Registered: Monday, March 10 2003 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 7333
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written Thursday, July 27 2006 22:14
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I personally enjoyed the features of Avernum 4. I played the demos for all of the other Avernum games but A4 was the only one I ever registered for. I also can't understand the complaints about the interface, which I thought was an improvement over previous Avernum games and more intuitive. Picking up items and giving them to team members was better because you could drop them on a characters portrait regardless of who was currently "getting" the items. I also liked how towns and dungeons were part of the world at large, which makes more sense and made the game play smoother from my perspective. My only real complaints were the lack of unique graphics, since all guards, wizards, sages, and soldiers were basically character graphics with a palette swap. This was especially annoying for Nephils and Slith, since they only got two graphics each, presumably one male and one female. I actually tried creating a new party in BoA and to my surprise, there were multiple Nephil and Slith graphics in the character creator, and it's hard to see why they were removed from this game. To A4 credit though, the actual Nephil/Slith character units in previous Avernum games were just palette swaps. The available graphics weren't bad, but more variety would add to the replay value of the game. The same goes for the monster graphics. It didn't seem like there was enough variety other than variations of the same basic type. As for the story itself, a repeat of the plagues makes sense since Rentar is the returning villain, so she'd have a similar M.O. in how she enacted her revenge. Other than war with the Empire or the various humanoids in Avernum's world, there isn't much that can really be done storywise. Posts: 49 | Registered: Thursday, July 27 2006 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Friday, July 28 2006 05:30
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quote:That is, without trying something new. A4's plot makes sense. In fact, it makes too much sense. From about the first five minutes of A4, I knew what the rest of the game would look like. But, as I've said all along, this was a game for good hacking. I'm hoping that the next one is more than that. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 7335
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written Friday, July 28 2006 06:28
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I played it a couple months back, but haven't played any other spiderweb game since then. I guess I'm kind of shedding it out of my life. They aren't as fun as they used to be. Maybe it's because years ago I was a kid and now I've got so many other things in my life I have to pay attention to, but I just don't find the time to play this game, and even when I have time to play it I'll go on the internet and browse some sites instead. It's really videogames in general that I've started to shed out of my life, but I really liked the Exile series. I understand that as the world grows, you have to make better games and a better engine to keep your customers happy, but the Exile Series is probably my favorite game of them all. It was original and didn't need much to please people. You could also play it on and on forever. Sorry if I kinda went off topic, I had to get that off. I think the game is ok. There was some part I couldn't get past, it was some ghost test or something I saw in an underground place. I never got past that when I played. Other than that, the game is pretty easy. I like how it's got where you can scan the map, click on a place, and the party will move there. The slow moving system I disliked before. It also makes the game pretty cheap, though. You can quickly raid some parts of the dungeon, go back to town and recuperate and sell your loot, then raid the rest of the dungeon. Posts: 7 | Registered: Friday, July 28 2006 07:00 |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Friday, July 28 2006 07:23
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quote:Kel pretty much hit this on the head and that's how A4 is different from its predecessors. A1 -- you had a completely new world to explore. A2 -- you had the barrier mystery with the introduction of the Vahnatai. A3 -- whole new world to explore, villain is somewhat mysterious and not learned until farther into the plot. A4 -- same world as A1/A2 but smaller, same villain as A3 and you pretty much knew it by the end of the demo. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 6136
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written Friday, July 28 2006 09:17
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I think that we must wait until an Exile4 or something version comes out, maybe it will be like the old avernum :rolleyes: ... I hope that A5 have a different engine. Posts: 446 | Registered: Friday, July 22 2005 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 7333
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written Friday, July 28 2006 12:10
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My point was that the Rentar plot had to be resolved any way, and she would have the same basic ideas for how to exact her revenge. And to her credit, the shades actually were an original idea because she was trying to destroy Avernum by taking away the only thing that allowed its population to survive in the first place: each other. By creating shades that preyed on and magnified the fear, claustrophobia, and desperation of a people trapped in a sunless, cavernous wasteland for pretty much the rest of their lives, and making escape not an option by shutting down the surface portal (unless that was done by the Loyalists, which is always possible) it would only be a matter of time before Avernum would turn on itself and she would be able to move on to her revenge on the surface. And at any rate, all loose ends and conflicts with the Vahnatai seem pretty much resolved, so I doubt they'll play a major role in upcoming games, if they even make a cameo appearance. I wouldn't mind being able to have Vahnatai warriors in my party, but the prospect seems unlikely since they're pretty much solitary and generally trusted less than Nephils and Slith. Now that I think about it, another minor thing that bugged me was that I wanted to fight a few of the sea monsters, or at least beached ones. They were a big problem in the story too but you don't even see one, all you get is a description based on what your party barely catches out of the corner of its eye. To all of the people who disliked A4's story, what would you have done differently? What would you have rather seen? Jeff is mostly the storyteller and I prefer it that way because sometimes it's more interesting to see the product of someone else's imagination than keep using your own, but maybe with concstructive criticism and some feedback we could input ideas we'd like to see explored storywise. I know the Loyalists issue needs to be resolved, but what else could happen in the world of Avernum? The fall of the Empire? An Industrial Revolution? What ideas do you have for a good starting point for the next sequel? Posts: 49 | Registered: Thursday, July 27 2006 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Friday, July 28 2006 13:38
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The surface is a generic fantasy world. It is boring. The less involved it is the better. Avernum has become too much of a playground. Every conceivable threat should be ground into a fine, reddish powder. The only thing left in the old, boring Avernum is politics, and Avernites don't really go for politics much. What does that leave? The frontier. Onward and downward! [Edit: I am literate.] —Alorael, who hopes for more vahnatai, maybe vahnatai not related to Rentar-Ihrno's bunch at all. He'd also like to see (apologies to Kel) more about the slith lands below Lost Bahssikava. [ Friday, July 28, 2006 16:58: Message edited by: Evidence of Unreality ] Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |