Quick Note About Graphics
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| Author | Topic: Quick Note About Graphics |
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Board Administrator
Member # 1
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written Tuesday, January 10 2006 16:32
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It is unfortunate that so many people don't like the Geneforge-style graphics (rendered with a program called Poser). I thought I'd say a word about what's happening with that. Graphics and sound have always been our games' great weak point. Graphics are expensive. Hand-drawn graphics are very expensive. So it was the greatest thing ever when we figured out how to use Poser. We are able to make reasonably neat animated figures (Linda does most of this btw) without spending a bajillion dollars. But we are limited by the fact that it takes a lot of time to make them, and by the availability of premade models we can plug into Poser. This is why 3 of the PCs in Avernum 4 look so Geneforgy. We just didn't have time to make new PC models from scratch. As it was, we were rendering stuff right up to the release date. At this point, Poser icons are the best solution we can find to a very real problem. And, to be honest, I really like them. The sliths and nephils in Avernum 4 are, in my opinion, the best those races ever looked. The one thing that still causes me pain, however, is the chitrachs in Avernum 4. Having them look like clawbugs is Weak Sauce. But I wrote them into the game before I realized that I couldn't find a different, decent Poser model for a weird bug. The MOMENT I find one, that clawbug is SO out of there. - Jeff Vogel -------------------- Official Board Admin spidweb@spiderwebsoftware.com Posts: 960 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4239
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written Tuesday, January 10 2006 16:40
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Any chance of an A4 update if that happens? :P -------------------- There are two kinds of game players...those who are newbies, and those who were. Posts: 322 | Registered: Monday, April 12 2004 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Tuesday, January 10 2006 16:58
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My understanding was that that was the point. I'm searching right now to get some concept of what Poser is and how to find graphics for it. Then I'll start looking for an insect-like graphic. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Tuesday, January 10 2006 17:15
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Jeff, the lack of graphics is one area in which BoE/A designers should have a lot of sympathy for you. Even though the lack of variety in graphics does sometimes detract from the game, I personally can't really fault you for having difficulty finding/making large numbers of good graphics. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Tuesday, January 10 2006 17:28
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And it helps a lot when you explain yourself. When you say that you didn't like having the chitrach graphic there but you had to in order to ship in a reasonable amount of time, that makes sense to me. When I don't know that about a particular aspect of a game, it's a little harder to form an opinion about what you've done. Needless to say, your last three posts have made you go up a lot in my estimation. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Tuesday, January 10 2006 18:01
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I still happen to think that the Geneforge-style graphics are the best that Spiderweb has had. Even non-chitrachs don't change that, although a chance at real praying mantis types is great. —Alorael, who is also happy to have new knowledge of Linda's job. If she makes graphics, she's not out plotting evil and lead piping baby seals. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 247
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written Tuesday, January 10 2006 18:40
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I would rather see new human party graphics, than the clawbug thing changed. The Slith and Nephilim are really great. Humans need the same treatment. Although these are all minor issues any way. -------------------- The Knight Between Posts. Posts: 2395 | Registered: Friday, November 2 2001 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Tuesday, January 10 2006 20:21
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*nod nod* It's very reassuring to hear you don't like the chitrachs, either. If you put more time into the graphics, though, the PC graphics should *really* be the first ones to work on. The nephil and slith graphics are nicely done -- but it's frustrating to see so many available for enemies and so few for the party. Particularly when nephils are almost categorically the most advantageous race -- 2 options leaves a lot to be desired. If nothing else, why not allow each race to choose any graphic? A nephil in a suit of armor is going to look more like an armored human graphic than a furry nephil graphic anyway. -- Tucker, who you may want to ignore, since he's one of the silly people who still prefers pre-Exile III graphics. They created such a great atmosphere. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Board Administrator
Member # 1
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written Tuesday, January 10 2006 20:57
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Any future Avernum graphics will have PC designs. PC graphics, however, take up the most time by FAR. A monster takes a day or two. A PC can take two weeks. They take longer to render, and there are more poses to do. - Jeff Vogel -------------------- Official Board Admin spidweb@spiderwebsoftware.com Posts: 960 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4
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written Tuesday, January 10 2006 21:15
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quote:Amen. The giant also confused me at first- what is that thing on its back? And a comment in general- most of the attack graphics look a bit uninspired. A giant is mildly punching me? I'm poking the enemy with my sword? If you could use Poser to give more dramatic motions to attackers, it'd be a nice improvement. EDIT: Also, I know that you have to use color shifts because you lack models- okay. But could you vary the colors in each monster a little? Fighting blue blob after pink blob after green blob... Blech. :( [ Tuesday, January 10, 2006 21:42: Message edited by: Prometheus ] -------------------- * Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Tuesday, January 10 2006 23:36
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Which brings up another point -- the slimes always looked kinda like cabbages to me. I'm not really sure how one would do a good slime in GF-style graphics, though. Oh well. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 247
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written Tuesday, January 10 2006 23:47
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Yo, it costs 25 quid whatchu want? I'm generally satisfied. As A4 is just the beginning, things should only improve. Cabbages? ;) -------------------- The Knight Between Posts. Posts: 2395 | Registered: Friday, November 2 2001 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 5785
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written Wednesday, January 11 2006 03:59
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The graphics from Geneforge don't bother me as much as so many graphs were just ripped clean off. Clawbug, Gazer, Drayk, etc. Of course, you did add a whole new line of creatue-graphs, which I hope we will see in G4. -------------------- "..The seventh wave of Thrall stumbled and climbed over the slippery, piled dead and Mazzarin saw The Watcher with them and at last knew the number of his days." Posts: 522 | Registered: Wednesday, May 4 2005 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 52
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written Wednesday, January 11 2006 04:53
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The graphics looks fine to me. I miss the blonde haired man and woman though. Any chance of them coming back?! -------------------- Behind, the sea of time and space roars and follows swiftly Posts: 280 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Wednesday, January 11 2006 11:41
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I'd rather have roamer hellhounds and clawbug chitrachs now than pure made-in-Avernum graphics six months from now. If I can get both, that'll be nice. I wonder whether Jeff might actually be able to get some donated graphics help -- all rights signed away for $1 kind of deal -- from community members who would be happy to do it. He could bill it as a contest: "See your monster in A5!" -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 6632
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written Wednesday, January 11 2006 12:11
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quote:I sort of liked the old version where there only was one attack and one non-attack image of each character. It felt more abstract. But would be hard to go back to now that I'm used to seing where the character is looking. Posts: 50 | Registered: Monday, January 2 2006 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 5665
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written Wednesday, January 11 2006 17:52
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My 2 cents: I think the PC graphics look pretty good, its the lacking variety compared to the previous Avernum games I dislike. The enemy graphics from Geneforge don't bother me as I have played Geneforge for exactly 14 minutes (just didn't dig it). My biggest graphic complaint... the item graphics changing! Sure, I got over it by the end of the demo portion, but I get confused when suddenly healing potions look like energy potions and all the graymold I'm seeng is actually some other herb. And yes, I am too lazy to open the game up and actually check which ingredient is using the old graymold icon. Finally, I appreciate Jeff posting in this way. -------------------- Signature v2.0 Now with more Retzin! Posts: 22 | Registered: Sunday, April 3 2005 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Wednesday, January 11 2006 20:51
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Years ago, a foul incantatrix put a curse on all the caverns, making potions, herbs, and small items of all variety take on a different appearance every time somebody looks at them. No doubt this was part of the reason identification was so necessary in the early days of the kingdom. We should all be thankful for Rita and Patrick's scholarship -- but even they were not powerful enough to break the curse, it seems. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Wednesday, January 11 2006 21:29
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quote:I'd bet there'd be plenty of participation. I have no idea how the legal side of this (signing away rights) works, but I'd bet that one could work it out without much trouble. We've had graphical artists adapt to the different formats of BoE and BoA, so I bet they could adapt to the Poser format (whatever that format is). [ Wednesday, January 11, 2006 22:40: Message edited by: Kelandon ] -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Wednesday, January 11 2006 22:12
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Poser's a fairly popular 3D modelling and rendering program, designed specifically for making models of humans. I believe that Brett Bixler has a copy, although he's not around as often as he used to be and I don't know if one could talk him into helping make graphics for A5. [ Wednesday, January 11, 2006 22:14: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 1345
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written Thursday, January 12 2006 14:57
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quote:It shouldn't be too difficult, a signing away of one's IP/CP isn't too painful/difficult if the person is willing to do it. Also if Jeff is willing to add contributers to the credit page or an extra credit page people would be more willing to do it. -------------------- I may come across sounding more official then I actually am. Or not. Posts: 87 | Registered: Sunday, June 23 2002 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 2476
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written Friday, January 13 2006 14:42
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'Poser' is expensive. 'Blender' on the other hand is open source and free, well documented, and comes with a lot of tutorials and support for both Mac and Windows. Blender.org -------------------- Polaris Rache's A3 Site reformatted 2/3 done Rache's A3 Site, original version Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 1345
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written Tuesday, January 17 2006 05:35
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Now that I've had a chance to play the game a bit I can see what people are talking about. Interesting. I haven't gotten far enough through to see any creatures having graphics from the Geneforge universe, but the obvious ones from the beginning don't really bother me. -------------------- I may come across sounding more official then I actually am. Or not. Posts: 87 | Registered: Sunday, June 23 2002 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 2476
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written Tuesday, January 17 2006 22:24
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quote:I don't know, if Jeff Vogel still checks this topic. But just in case - I may have come upon something. DAZ produces almost all of Poser's models. Go to their website, which is daz3d.com and browse through their animal galleries. You'll find an ant and a mosquito that can both be morphed into decent chitrachs. (In case they should not be Poser format, but DAZ only: they have their own studio, much like Poser, just a bit less complex and downloadable for free.) [ Tuesday, January 17, 2006 22:25: Message edited by: ef ] -------------------- Polaris Rache's A3 Site reformatted 2/3 done Rache's A3 Site, original version Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5701
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written Wednesday, January 18 2006 09:28
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Recently downloaded the Avernum 4 Mac demo and became instantly addicted after a brief hiatus from the series. IMO, I like the Geneforge-esque graphics. Granted, it took some time to get used to , but all in all I think Jeff made the right decision. Posts: 64 | Registered: Tuesday, April 12 2005 07:00 |
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