Moral dilemmas
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Shock Trooper
Member # 52
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written Friday, January 6 2006 05:24
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It seems that Avernum 4 presents more moral dilemmas than ever before, in terms of (friendly-ish) people and things that you have to kill to finish quests: 1. Crain Poor guy, but how else to finish the quest without killing him off? An option to lie to Thorious and pick up the reward would be nice. 2. Non-hostile Araneas How else to get that Nullity shield and a Terror upgrade without full-on murder? Poor little spiders. They may not have been GIFTS, but they were very quiet and peaceful. 3. Cerebrous worm It wasn't his fault he was weird. Or that he was an experiment gone wrong. Such a lovely, gentle creature: but he still had to be slaughtered to clear a quest. 4. Gremlin The last of his clan. Killing him felt almost like genocide. 5. Dharmon mine mage No way to sneak past him without making him mad, but the stuff down his mine is just too juicy to ignore - if only you didn't have to kill him when you claim-jump him. -------------------- Behind, the sea of time and space roars and follows swiftly Posts: 280 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 6627
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written Friday, January 6 2006 09:42
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There's a guard in Formello permanently blocking a box of javelins. Not exactly worth the moral angst. Has anyone ever tried to genocide the world of Avernum? Kill every living thing? Posts: 55 | Registered: Sunday, January 1 2006 08:00 |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Friday, January 6 2006 09:48
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Unfortunately, you cannot kill the king. If you do, you sort of die instantly. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Friday, January 6 2006 10:47
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Plus that rival party of adventurers in the Honeycomb: presumably they just go unconscious and get revived in some town. -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 4153
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written Friday, January 6 2006 11:22
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I felt genuinely bad about those adventurers... particularly once I realized that they were on the same mission as me. -------------------- Thuryl: "Runescape: for people who are too stupid to save their games." Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 5672
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written Friday, January 6 2006 11:36
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To continue the list: 6. Killing that dude who used to be a bandit, but now seems to lead a pieceful life. 7. Telling a mage in Dharnia? who likes to cut all living things where the friendly spiders are. 8. Killing either commander Drew or Queen Annatolia. Well, queen Annatolia has joined with Darkside Loyalists, but still... (well, if you tell her you killed Imriel the quest for commander Drew does go away) Posts: 48 | Registered: Tuesday, April 5 2005 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Friday, January 6 2006 14:27
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Commander Crewl, not Drew. And the mage is in Bargha, not Dharmon, which should never merge with Narnia. —Alorael, who is quite sure that the Honeycomb adventurers are a plant by very clever bandits who know that the greatest threat they face is adventurers. Surely adventurers wouldn't be willing to kill their own! Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Friday, January 6 2006 14:36
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quote:Fear not; those are bandits disguised as adventurers. You even get a quest to report their location to an agent in Mertis. quote:If you talk to him enough times, he eventually attacks you of his own accord, in which case you can at least claim self-defence. [ Friday, January 06, 2006 14:41: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Friday, January 6 2006 15:25
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"If you talk to him enough times, he eventually attacks you of his own accord, in which case you can at least claim self-defence." What is this, CSI: Avernum? "Let's psychologically manipulate the culprit until he goes crazy and takes a swing at us. That's totally ethical." -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Friday, January 6 2006 15:45
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That sounds more like "Criminal Minds" to me, only the people in Criminal Minds usually try to get the criminal to surrender peacefully. CSI: Avernum would be adventurers who wander around a plundered camp of slaughtered merchants trying to decide which bandits did it, or whether the giant lizards escaped and caused havoc. With gruesome flashbacks. Dikiyoba always felt that Geneforge was the place for moral dilemmas and Avernum was to save the world from destruction by monsters. The worlds are combining... Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Friday, January 6 2006 15:56
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quote:That's what I thought, until just recently I trashed those adventurers, then went to collect my reward and it wasn't forthcoming. I completed that quest only by finding the serious bandit stronghold in the far SW of the Honeycomb. Which is more what the quest described, anyway, than just four dudes in a tunnel junction. -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Friday, January 6 2006 16:11
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Well, I'll be. What an unfortunate misunderstanding. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4239
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written Friday, January 6 2006 16:31
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quote:*nods in agreement* As for the adventurers, I never felt too bad about it. I mean, I was just exploring and they attacked me for walking over some line they'd drawn! -------------------- There are two kinds of game players...those who are newbies, and those who were. Posts: 322 | Registered: Monday, April 12 2004 07:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Friday, January 6 2006 16:48
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Right, I was getting my crappy legal-police dramas mixed up. I suppose CSI: Avernum would be more like Avernum 3. All that evidence to analyze... and you certainly collect enough assorted monster limbs. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Friday, January 6 2006 18:16
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I stand by my statement. The adventurers are fakes sent by the real bandits to keep the real adventurers away. —Alorael, who felt worst about Crain. He isn't even a bad guy, he's just stiff-necked and reasonably disinclined to get stuck with a dangerously honor-bound family. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 4448
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written Friday, January 6 2006 20:29
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quote:In my experience, if you kill him, you have to wait until the end of the round for the trigger to tell you that you were caught. After that, you have one more round until the game actually ends. I actually have a saved game with every town completly exterminated. (you only have two rounds to live, though, so it might be hard to verify) -------------------- Yeah, here's a sig. On to more posts... Posts: 17 | Registered: Sunday, May 30 2004 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Sunday, February 19 2006 21:47
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The adventurers near the Bandit Keep are mentioned by Corin as an earlier hire when you get the quest. If you are careful you can move around them from the north to explore the south and west sides to loot the two bodies. Approaching form the west lets you get some more stuff. Jeff ought to restore the reputation from earlier Avernum games but use it for morality. Then you can choose to play the game as good or evil with your actions tied to that choice. The major quests would still be there but given by different people and for different reasons and rewards. The evil side would be eliminating a future competitor. In A4 that would mean eliminating the shades as bad for business, etc. Also there could be some quests that could only be done by good or evil. This would make for a different game for each type. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 4153
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written Monday, February 20 2006 12:04
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quote:Undoubtedly, this would be awesome. I honestly felt bad completing some of the quests in the game (I believe I only completed one bounty quest), and I get the feeling that there should've been more consequences for them... Given the current trend of Avernum becoming modernized (relatively, anyway), I doubt that reputation will make a strong showing in the future. I personally hope for the best, though. -------------------- Thuryl: "Runescape: for people who are too stupid to save their games." Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Saturday, February 25 2006 21:44
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I was watching a game of Advanced Dungeons and Dragons (2nd Ed.) where a good aligned party was slaughtering a clan of mountain dwarfs in their lair. Another watcher asked the player running a good cleric why they were doing it. The cleric said, "Because they're evil." The Gamemaster pointed to the monster manual page where it showed the alignment was lawful good. The watcher so that and asked, "Are you sure that they're evil?" The cleric said, "Of course they're evil. They're keeping us from they're treasure, aren't they." That type of philosophy help me get through most of these types of quests. The need for experience and treasure overrides moral considerations most of the time, Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 247
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written Sunday, February 26 2006 16:59
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I thought the adventurers in the honeycomb were a nice touch. I really enjoyed fighting a party of similar strength am makeup to my own. Though I didn't see a moral dilemma in killing them. -------------------- The Knight Between Posts. Posts: 2395 | Registered: Friday, November 2 2001 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 65
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written Monday, February 27 2006 18:14
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I for one wouldn't mind seeing a CSI:Avernum. -------------------- Milla-Displacer Beastie This is also a good site Posts: 650 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Monday, February 27 2006 19:14
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The part of Grissom will be played by a Giant Intelligent Friendly Talking Spider. Dikiyoba. Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 497
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written Wednesday, March 1 2006 08:38
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One would think that that would be expected. Of course, one could make a play on his wizardly forensic talents by making him an aranea (is that the singular form?). -------------------- Evil comes in many forms. I am but one of them. Posts: 116 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 65
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written Thursday, March 2 2006 22:27
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Or would it be Aranae? -------------------- Milla-Displacer Beastie This is also a good site Posts: 650 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 878
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written Tuesday, March 7 2006 16:36
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What about that ogre in the swamp north of Cotra? They say it hasn't done any harm yet, but they assume it will because its an ogre, and when you confront it it simply asks you to go away, with the option to kill it being "I'd rather kill you and take your stuff". Also, there is that farmer who wants to know what is happening in Fort Avernum (does anyone know if it actually matters whether you tell him, or follow the rules and keep it a secret?) And how about the imprisioned eyebeast west of Cotra? If you kill it the mayor is quite upset about how much they could have learned from it, yet you get some nice rewards for doing so, and if left alone it might trick someone else into letting it escape. Also, are there any consequences of taking up bandit lord Bragg's offer to go away for a year so you can get rewarded for killing him? Will you meet him later in the abyss? And I'm sure there are other ones in the game too, as I haven't even gotten past the eastern gallery yet. -------------------- Warning: Posts may contain misspellinks and typo.s Posts: 409 | Registered: Sunday, March 31 2002 08:00 |
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