The Future of Blades of Avernum

Pages

AuthorTopic: The Future of Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 156
Profile #50
I suspect another problem was the fact that hackers had a crack out for BoA shortly after it was released. I discovered this by typing "Blades" or something like that into the Bearshare search engine. But then again, if they cracked BoA then they must have crakced the other games as well right(I never checked for such)?

I am surprised that BoA did not sell well considering the comparituive value of that product with the value of buying , what is in essence a single scenario in A4 or GF 3 or whatever.

I seriously doubt that VotDT was a weak selling point. I realize that a lot of scenario designers, for whatever reason tend to bash it but really it is comparable to or better than 99% of the RPGs released in terms of being a decent RPG adventure. Sure A Small Rebellion was better but VotDT was good. You guys make it sound like it was the "Pool of Radiance: RoMD" of Avernum scenarios!?

--------------------
"I am in a very peculiar business. I travel all over the world telling people what they should already know." - James Randi
Posts: 219 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #51
It would be logical to assume that all the games have been cracked. I mean, realistically, no game is immune to being pirated. Game designers are at the mercy of people being somewhat honest.

I don't think VoDT was terrible, on the contrary, it is fine, but I think allowing more basic play to demonstrate things would have been better. However, I think Blades of Avernum was not marketed as well as it could have been (the editor not packaged with the application). Beyond that the scheme for making scenarios is pretty cumbersome in BoA versus BoE. So there are a lot of things that made BoA a flop.

--------------------
Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #52
The problem is not that VoDT is bad. The problem is that you don't need to register in order to finish it, so VoDT gives no incentive to register.

[ Thursday, December 14, 2006 00:37: Message edited by: Cold Fusion ]

--------------------
The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 1768
Profile #53
*resurrection*

Dear Mr. V:

I eagerly await the day you release the source code for BoE. I am aware you had some difficulty with it being stuck on an old PC? What's the status on that, and -if- you're no whiz with tearing up old computers in order to get data from them, I could advise :P . (Though I imagine you'd have little trouble with that, as you work with computers for a living.)

Impatient and uninformed,
Desert Plah

--------------------
"Oh, North Wind, why frighten others?
In Nature's family all are brothers.
Puff and blow and wheeze and hiss;
You can't frighten Shingebiss.
Bring your frost and ice and snow;
I'm still free to come and go.
You can never frighten me,
One who never fears is FREE!"
-Shingebiss, the mighty duck
Posts: 830 | Registered: Tuesday, August 20 2002 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 8016
Profile #54
I liked VoDT...It makes me wanna buy the game...but I need some money first :o

Just wish I knew how to use the editor...some is just a bit too confusing for me..

[ Monday, February 05, 2007 16:30: Message edited by: NineInch ]
Posts: 29 | Registered: Sunday, February 4 2007 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 7538
Profile Homepage #55
Don't worry, Nine Inch. It's something you get the hang of when you work with it enough. Actually finishing scenarios is where it gets tricky for some people. :P

--------------------
Do not provoke the turtles.
They do not like being provoked.

-Lenar

My website: Nemesis' Refuge
Posts: 743 | Registered: Friday, September 29 2006 07:00
Guardian
Member # 5360
Profile #56
We might get BoG someday, if Jeff goes insane and starts doing big suggestions from us.

--------------------
May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it.
Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #57
I would so make BoG scenarios.

--------------------
You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #58
Focus, Tullegolar! You need to finish the BoA scenario first!

--------------------
I tried to think of something witty to put here.

Needless to say, I failed.
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
Profile Homepage #59
quote:
Originally written by The Absolute Value of Nalyd is Zero:

We might get BoG someday, if Jeff goes insane and starts doing big suggestions from us.
(clubs Nalyd with a BoA beta)

Shhhh!!! First, we get BoA fixed, then you can worry about your silly little fantasies, okay? :P

--------------------
Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice.

I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion.
Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 1768
Profile #60
I'd still like to see BoE code released before BoA is fixed :P

--------------------
"Oh, North Wind, why frighten others?
In Nature's family all are brothers.
Puff and blow and wheeze and hiss;
You can't frighten Shingebiss.
Bring your frost and ice and snow;
I'm still free to come and go.
You can never frighten me,
One who never fears is FREE!"
-Shingebiss, the mighty duck
Posts: 830 | Registered: Tuesday, August 20 2002 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #61
I think the first post of this thread sounded the death knell for BoG and for BoA bug fixes. Jeff has given some indication that he is interested in releasing the source for BoE, though, so that may yet happen (someday).

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 1768
Profile #62
Sooner than later, hoping.

--------------------
"Oh, North Wind, why frighten others?
In Nature's family all are brothers.
Puff and blow and wheeze and hiss;
You can't frighten Shingebiss.
Bring your frost and ice and snow;
I'm still free to come and go.
You can never frighten me,
One who never fears is FREE!"
-Shingebiss, the mighty duck
Posts: 830 | Registered: Tuesday, August 20 2002 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
Profile Homepage #63
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

I think the first post of this thread sounded the death knell for BoG and for BoA bug fixes.
I read it, Kel. I'm just saying that BoA's fantasies need to come before BoG's...

--------------------
Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice.

I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion.
Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 1768
Profile #64
And BoE's reality before BoA's fantasy.

--------------------
"Oh, North Wind, why frighten others?
In Nature's family all are brothers.
Puff and blow and wheeze and hiss;
You can't frighten Shingebiss.
Bring your frost and ice and snow;
I'm still free to come and go.
You can never frighten me,
One who never fears is FREE!"
-Shingebiss, the mighty duck
Posts: 830 | Registered: Tuesday, August 20 2002 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 7662
Profile #65
As for Blades of Geneforge, there may already be such a program. Glancing through the Data folder of Geneforge 2 I noticed a whole lot of small icons with numbers like 1600&. They struck me as looking like icons for a hypothetical Geneforge 3D Editor. (I would not be surprised if Jeff Vogel uses something like that to create the Geneforge games.)

In theory you could create BoA scenarios which are based upon the Geneforge world but it would take some doing: disabling all existing spells, creating new skills&&. Distributing skill points to the custom skills after gaining levels would be a problem.

A Blades of Nethergate would be an interesting idea. Once again, creating a Nethergate - based BoA scenario would be quite a problem.

[ Sunday, February 11, 2007 00:24: Message edited by: Ishad Nha ]
Posts: 292 | Registered: Monday, November 13 2006 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 6193
Profile Homepage #66
Does Jeff still design in 2D? I mean, the same editor icons still exist in GF4, by which time I think Jeff already knew that BoG wasn't going to happen. Boy, that guy needs to get with the times. :P

A Geneforge based scenario could be done, the only real problem would be that the creations would have to be either A: Uncontrollable Joined NPCs, or B: PC's, which the player would have to be asked to change the graphic for. I've never played a GF beyond the intro, so I don't really know much beyond that. If the creations can be done, I see no reason the rest can't be.

Nethergate would be fairly simple, though. The engine is nearly identical, so porting graphics would be easy and you wouldn't have to do much besides redoing spells. I guess the experience system is pretty different, but I'm sure it could be worked out.

--------------------
Guaranteed to blow your mind.

Frostbite: Get It While It's...... Hot?
Posts: 900 | Registered: Monday, August 8 2005 07:00
Master
Member # 5977
Profile Homepage #67
In theory, one could actually make an SDF for creation energy, give the player a list of available creations to create with editional creations to be learned while playing the scenario, and that way the player could make creations. The fancy stuff that comes with it (the sounds and special effects) can be quite easily made, i think. I do think the creations will have to have a specific script that is tied to them, throughw hich one can enable a function that will make the player's ernergy SDF higher upon creation death.

Getting the exact graphics from Geneforge shouldn't be a problem, as it has been done quite frequently. I don't see a problem, and I might even try it in one of my still-to-be-made scenarios.

--------------------
Play and rate my scenarios:

Where the rivers meet
View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape.

Give us your drek!
Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #68
I wouldn't have even considered making creations joined NPCs, but I guess one could. If you want to allow unlimited creations, you could also make them sort of BoE-style: they're hidden monsters in each town that appear if they exist and stay hidden if they don't.

This would require some effort in the outdoors, though.

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Master
Member # 5977
Profile Homepage #69
Oh yeah, I forgot about the fact that they should follow the party... There is a limit of six NPCs in the party, right? If so, it would be a little limited...

--------------------
Play and rate my scenarios:

Where the rivers meet
View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape.

Give us your drek!
Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 6193
Profile Homepage #70
Well unless you want to mix joined creations and PC creations (which would be awful) the limit would be either:

3 if you chose the PC route (which allows for player control but designer can't set graphics)

2 for joined NPCs (which act like idiots)

Or just about unlimitted for the BoE way (which could theoretically be very intelligent with good scripting, but again control is going to be clunky at best, nonexistant at worst.)

The problem with the BoE way is that the creatures have to follow the player. I've done this before but only for a single dungeon-- if the creations act stupid and get in your way a lot, it'll get annoying fast.

--------------------
Guaranteed to blow your mind.

Frostbite: Get It While It's...... Hot?
Posts: 900 | Registered: Monday, August 8 2005 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
Profile Homepage #71
quote:
Originally written by Lazarus:
:
Nethergate would be fairly simple, though. The engine is nearly identical, so porting graphics would be easy and you wouldn't have to do much besides redoing spells. I guess the experience system is pretty different, but I'm sure it could be worked out.
Don't say that, or Tyran's never going to finish his scenario. :P

--------------------
Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice.

I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion.
Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 7662
Profile #72
The mechanics are fairly straightforward:

Special Geneforge (or Nethergate) skills can be handled as Stuff Done Flags. The call change_pc_skill_pts can enable BoA skill points to be converted into values for SDFs, into skill points for "Geneforge/Nethergate skills", via the Increment Flag call.
(Edit: this is not such a bright idea if the party will be going from one scenario to another. Especially if some of the scenarios are Geneforge and some not. A better idea is to have a second set of "skill points" for "Geneforge skills", both the skill points and the skills will be represented by SDFs.)

The means to do this can be given to trainers or to a Special Ability

With 9000 SDFs there will be plenty of room for special skills and spells. In Geneforge 4 there are 19 skills, 15 types of monster shaping and 40 spells. Actually selling these things will probably require dialog nodes, one text response per skill/spell. By contrast, gaining these skills by canisters will be quite straightforward.

Actually viewing the Geneforge skills will be a bit tougher and may require a lot of use of print big str or the use of a dialog box. In the latter case, the punctuation and layout won’t be optimum.

[ Tuesday, February 13, 2007 18:29: Message edited by: Ishad Nha ]
Posts: 292 | Registered: Monday, November 13 2006 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
Profile Homepage #73
So, basically it's way more work than it'd be worth. :P

--------------------
Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice.

I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion.
Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 7662
Profile #74
As for the effort involved, it is no problem if you really want to have a BoA Geneforge scenario.

You won't have to come up with a BoA - style spell screen/toolbar. I mean Kelandon showed how custom spells could work in Exodus.

I don't recall any limitations as to what type of creature NPCs must be. Usually they are human but the game views them as Character ID numbers.

The Louvre has a lot of Geneforge graphics for BoA, four separate sheets of Outdoor Terrain from Geneforge. Then there are seven sheets of Geneforge items, along with graphics for individual monsters.

[ Monday, February 12, 2007 20:49: Message edited by: Ishad Nha ]
Posts: 292 | Registered: Monday, November 13 2006 08:00

Pages